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My experience at the CrossFit Level 1 Cert

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,024 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    Hanley wrote: »
    Irsondie, I don't know what goes on in there but I wouldn't hold it up as programming perfection.


    Seriously?

    What are your achievements as a coach, that you feel you can have these little digs? Trained in IP for a bit and now you think you are Irelands premier S&C coach or something?

    You need to stop running folk down and pre-shilling your business on boards.
    Seriously, its really bloody ugly.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,038 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    Seriously?

    Seriously yourself. Stop that now.

    Hanley, don't respond.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Barry.Oglesby


    Hanley is shilling his accountancy business.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭SanoVitae


    Pre-shilling is the word of the day! :D


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Barry.Oglesby


    You can get pre-shilling done at most dental clinics now. Saw it on City deals last week.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 221 ✭✭daveyc21


    Hanley wrote: »



    The pool of people training those locations probably sums to less than 3/4 of CFIs members. When I trained in Hercs most sessions either had a senior lifter or coach present, I'd imagine ECB is much the same. Irsondie, I don't know what goes on in there but I wouldn't hold it up as programming perfection.

    Actually from people who are training in here who are ex cfer's Ironside alone would probably have equivalent or more likely more members than cfi and our membership is increasing daily at this stage. In terms of programming unless you outsource your programming to Jesus its of course never going to be perfect. I think our results speak for themselves.We have a high number of national level athletes and a small number of prospective Olympians. Their opinion of the programming is infinitely more important to us than yours but your right you dont know whats going on in here so the best approach would probably be not to comment. Just for posterity membership in Ironside is 40-50 euro a month. Fair point by d'oracle even if it is hidden behind customary rage!


  • Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hanley wrote: »
    The pool of people training those locations probably sums to less than 3/4 of CFIs members. When I trained in Hercs most sessions either had a senior lifter or coach present, I'd imagine ECB is much the same. Irsondie, I don't know what goes on in there but I wouldn't hold it up as programming perfection
    Number of members is irrelevent. Its number of people training at the same time. I'm not holding anywhere up as programming perfection but indicating that people can "work-away" in small groups in a class. The consequences aren't exactly unprecedented. The programming crack at Ironside is probably a little unnecessary.
    Hanley wrote: »
    See now you're just dragging it towards personal experiences. I was pretty clear at the start of the thread that I wanted it to be about CFs methodologies rather than how individual affiliates apply them.
    This is a fatuous statement. Of course I would refer to my experience of CF as this thread has reference your experience at your weekend. The only CF that exists is real implemented training. I was actually referencing CFI as quite a good example of using a daily lift that complemented the metcon. Even at that the limitations are large. (ie squatting twice a month for a 2 a weeker). Again when you stick to a prescribed WOD for everyone that presents massive limitations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    can we keep swipes at other gyms out of this please? It's not conducive to the topic at hand.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    daveyc21 wrote: »
    Actually from people who are training in here who are ex cfer's Ironside alone would probably have equivalent or more likely more members than cfi and our membership is increasing daily at this stage. In terms of programming unless you outsource your programming to Jesus its of course never going to be perfect. I think our results speak for themselves.We have a high number of national level athletes and a small number of prospective Olympians. Their opinion of the programming is infinitely more important to us than yours but your right you dont know whats going on in here so the best approach would probably be not to comment. Just for posterity membership in Ironside is 40-50 euro a month. Fair point by d'oracle even if it is hidden behind customary rage!

    My comments on programming are based off what's written on the walls ("band pushdowns for tricep explosiveness") and what's in members logs who train there. Surely that's a fair view of the general programming? I don't think it's the right approach, but hey, c'est la vie. I don't expect people to always agree with me.

    Anyway, it's wildly off topic so lets leave it.


  • Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hanley wrote: »
    My comments on programming are based off what's written on the walls ("band pushdowns for tricep explosiveness") and what's in members logs who train there. Surely that's a fair view of the general programming? I don't think it's the right approach, but hey, c'est la vie. I don't expect people to always agree with me.

    Anyway, it's wildly off topic so lets leave it.
    Don't know anybody who logs here who has programming done by Dave. My programming (for example) tends to be me experimenting with a variety of approaches. Think D'Oracle is the same. I would say that Dave's pedigree as an athlete and lifter makes him an excellent source of knowledge and experience on many components of strength and conditioning. Not to mention having Sami, Wayne and Barry about.

    Anyway as you say back to the stream of other questions!


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    I've met Karl Steadman a couple of times and I do think he's a nice guy. His Manchester box was, IMO, probably about as good as a CrossFit box can be. In that sense I can see how it would be an enjoyable weekend. I did a L1 a few years ago and Karl was also on hand.

    I'm not going to trot out any spacecraft / drunk Greg Glassman / scientology jokes because I think that horse has already comprehensively been flogged at this stage.

    If you're considering going down the route of being a CF affiliate (or sort of semi-affiliate, maybe like a couple of the gyms in Dublin who are CF certified but have not affiliated) I guess I would wonder about the following:-

    CF Affiliation - not a hope. I don't like the system THAT much, and you're always at risk from some idiot doing something stupid and having all of CF get a bad name. We're a small island and people talk.
    (1) What do you think you will do or could do different to avoid some of the injuries, imbalances, impingements etc. that bigger CF affiliates in Dublin have seen. I guess here I refer also to supposed cases of rhabdo (heard of one occurring down the country this year - but not confirmed). Will there be high-rep heavy deadlifts and high-rep box jumps at CrossFit Hanley, essentially? Individualised strength programmes? My perception is that these issues are the reason that many people who began with CrossFit in Dublin a few years ago have since moved on.

    Ultimately I think something a long the IP model is the approach to take - a well structured mobility style warm up that shot guns all the big problem areas, a pre screen to see if there's anything major that an individual has to deal with, intelligent strength programming and some form of "metcon".

    Essentially I'd do something like structure sessions:
    -mobility
    -strength
    -conditioning (using relatively low skill movements)
    (2) Price-wise it seems like two of the bigger affiliates, CFI and CF Dublin have put themselves into a fairly premium price category (€170+ per month) and seem to implement a CrossFit L.A 'biz' business strategy. U.S style "nickel and diming" is the phrase I have heard used to describe it. Then at least one Dublin affiliate appears to bracket their prices around the €100-120 mark per year, more in the vein of other 'niche' gyms like Hercs, Ironside, East Coast Barbell (@Ironside I guess)... What are your thoughts on this i.e where's the market for CrossFit, and is it a premium service or something for students / lower income people etc. also?

    100-120 per year's a good deal :D

    I don't know where the market for CrossFit lies, I think probably as a premium brand considering the level of service that is being given. Obviously that assumes it's the right kind of service, people realise the value they're getting and there's sufficient numbers to support it.

    I can't speak for ironside, but ECBs scope is too narrow to consider it as a competitor, and Hercs offers nothing in the way of support or coaching (outside of some oly lifting and wrestling) so again, not a substitute product.

    (3) Given that you're an experienced lifter in your own right and obviously probably still don't square all the CF orthodoxy with what you believe to be correct, do you see yourself doing your own programming and avoiding the worst of HQ's occasional bouts of 'mainsite craziness'?

    All .com is good for is lulz, mainsite's programming is like daily testing rather than training. I'm considering a month of pure CF programming, just to evaluate it, and if I do it, it'll be on the rx as supplied - "use primarly couplets and triplets with compensatory movement patterns, a strength day every 3-4 days and the occasional chipper".

    :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    columok wrote: »
    Don't know anybody who logs here who has programming done by Dave. My programming (for example) tends to be me experimenting with a variety of approaches. Think D'Oracle is the same. I would say that Dave's pedigree as an athlete and lifter makes him an excellent source of knowledge and experience on many components of strength and conditioning. Not to mention having Sami, Wayne and Barry about.

    Anyway as you say back to the stream of other questions!


    I'm making one final statement on this and hopefully clearing up all the confusion, everything else after will be ignored and reported as being off topic. If anyone wants to discuss it further, you all know who I am in real life, you can find my email quite easily, PM me here, most of you are on my FB, a lot of you have my number and anyone else can find me VERY easily if they want.

    I'm not taking swipes at any gyms. Ironside is a fantastic set up, more gyms are needed like it. For the price, it offers great value to its members. The programming I've been exposed to from there (ie the stuff on the walls, and what I've seen in members logs) isn't something I'd do or "approve" of, but that doesn't really matter, cos if it's working for people and they're staying injury free, that's fine.

    You can talk all you want about ECB and Hercs, but they're not businesses. They're clubs. THey're not set up to provide profit to pay the owners bills, and they're not raking in mountains of cash after the bills have been paid (I know this for a fact in Hercs because I've attended AGMs and seen the accounts), so saying something else is bad value because they're not businesses makes no sense at all. But I guess if you don't think about it on a slightly deeper level and consider what the gyms are actually providing you'd probably think it's a good comparison, but in the context of what I've said - it's not.

    And what's the big deal if gym owners make money?! F*cking hell you'd swear the irish fitness industry is a vocation. You can make 100+k a year as an accountant fiddling with a calculator contributing nothing much at all, but suddenly if you start looking after peoples health and improving their quality of life you become a money grabber? I'm sorry but that's a f*cking ridiculous statement to make.

    I've nothing to hide about anything I've done. I've 5 years of posting and training history on here. My development is clear for anyone who wants to see it over that period. I've revised my opinion on a number of things, and will probably continue to do so. I don't ever try to shy away from that because I've legitimate reasons. I might even do the same on all of this in a few years time.

    As I've said, if anyone wants to talk about this like mature adults instead of some petty passive aggressive character assassination attempts online, you know where I can be contacted.


  • Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hanley wrote: »
    And what's the big deal if gym owners make money?! F*cking hell you'd swear the irish fitness industry is a vocation. You can make 100+k a year as an accountant fiddling with a calculator contributing nothing much at all, but suddenly if you start looking after peoples health and improving their quality of life you become a money grabber? I'm sorry but that's a f*cking ridiculous statement to make.
    What's a f*cking ridiculous statement to make? Who is this addressed at?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    columok wrote: »
    What's a f*cking ridiculous statement to make? Who is this addressed at?

    Anyone who believes gym owners who deliver superior service and results don't deserve to be fairly rewarded for it.

    So, that's it. i'm done responding to questions not associated to the topic as discussed in the opening few posts.


  • Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hanley wrote: »
    Anyone who believes gym owners who deliver superior service and results don't deserve to be fairly rewarded for it.

    So, that's it. i'm done responding to questions not associated to the topic as discussed in the opening few posts.
    I completely agree. There is a lot of weird anti-capitalist sentiments regarding anything sporty (have seen the same in MMA). I'm not sure anyone on this thread is taking issue with paying for quality service! If people do something well then they should be able to charge a reasonable fee for that -a fee that is proportional to the quality of service!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    token wrote: »
    Re: Individualised training and group setting.

    Something has to be done for people with 1+ year of training or else they are going to go no where. Weaknesses don't get fixed by doing straight up crossfit. People with 1+ year experience don't need constant supervision and you could have 2-3 groups within this class of people. It's not rocket science. For novices everybody doing the same thing is fine I don't have an issue with that.

    Yeah I'm with you on this alright. If you've an "advanced" group there's certainly scope to add in more complicated and individualised stuff, and at that point they should have a good level of kinesthetic awareness and be able to handle self coaching to a degree as well.


  • Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hanley wrote: »
    Yeah I'm with you on this alright. If you've an "advanced" group there's certainly scope to add in more complicated and individualised stuff, and at that point they should have a good level of kinesthetic awareness and be able to handle self coaching to a degree as well.

    A common criticism of CF (and one incidentally that I agree with) is that it misunderstands the role of testing and training in a training cycle and too often with the clock running every WOD becomes about score. Would you agree with some degree of periodisation (aka witchcraft) in this regard?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    columok wrote: »
    A common criticism of CF (and one incidentally that I agree with) is that it misunderstands the role of testing and training in a training cycle and too often with the clock running every WOD becomes about score. Would you agree with some degree of periodisation (aka witchcraft) in this regard?

    This is something I questioned. The .com workouts are pretty much just daily tests. Totally random following the "hopper" model - following them would be disasterous for most.

    The programming should be varied, but with a greater overall plan, if that makes sense.

    And depending on how you programme (2 on, 1 off / 3 on, 1 off etc etc) and include that strength WOD every 3-4, you're not really going hard against the clock TOO frequently during the week. And on top of that you shouldn't REALLY be busting your ass like it's the final even of the CF games every workout.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,627 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Hanley wrote: »
    Anyone who believes gym owners who deliver superior service and results don't deserve to be fairly rewarded for it.

    So, that's it. i'm done responding to questions not associated to the topic as discussed in the opening few posts.
    Good point. Something that the masses aren't able to grasp most of the time.

    A gym or sports facility is a business just like anything else. Why people treat it differently. They are people willing to pay for a range of prices. If the market's there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 450 ✭✭TheZ


    Mellor wrote: »
    Good point. Something that the masses aren't able to grasp most of the time.

    A gym or sports facility is a business just like anything else. Why people treat it differently. They are people willing to pay for a range of prices. If the market's there.


    I think it comes from the fact that growing up a lot of sports people played were run by volunteers (GAA, soccer, rugby, karate etc). Even as adults there are clubs you can join to play sports and they often just charge to cover costs.

    Sports as a business can then seem a little like oversell where people are trying to upsell things to you and people ask themselves is the training for my benefit or the guy getting paid as motivation can be questioned.


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  • Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TheZ wrote: »
    I think it comes from the fact that growing up a lot of sports people played were run by volunteers (GAA, soccer, rugby, karate etc). Even as adults there are clubs you can join to play sports and they often just charge to cover costs.

    Sports as a business can then seem a little like oversell where people are trying to upsell things to you and people ask themselves is the training for my benefit or the guy getting paid as motivation can be questioned.
    Well said. A lot of the times with clubs members contribute to the running of the club and do favours to keep things moving. A club charges the minimum to keep things going while a business charges for profit. Hanley said the same as per Hercs above.

    Now obviously a problem arises when a club has a profit model. They expect the same contributions from members in keeping the place running (ie community) while also pursuing a profit from same. Businesses should be businesses and clubs should be clubs. Good separation prevents members feeling 'nickel and dimed' to use BlackSheep's phrase!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,627 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    TheZ wrote: »
    I think it comes from the fact that growing up a lot of sports people played were run by volunteers (GAA, soccer, rugby, karate etc). Even as adults there are clubs you can join to play sports and they often just charge to cover costs.

    Sports as a business can then seem a little like oversell where people are trying to upsell things to you and people ask themselves is the training for my benefit or the guy getting paid as motivation can be questioned.

    That's fair enough. But its a different situation really.
    A karate class once a week in a local sports hall is entirely different to a guy running a full time martial arts gym. Even if the latter does it purely for the love of the sport, he still needs to eat.
    Plus I consider CF or Hercs, or Ironside all to be gyms. Not sports.

    Anyway, I pay $30 a week for a GloboGym, I'm sure I'd get way more for this money in Dublin. CF here in Sydney is $3000-$5000 a year.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,038 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Mellor wrote: »
    Anyway, I pay $30 a week for a GloboGym, I'm sure I'd get way more for this money in Dublin. CF here in Sydney is $3000-$5000 a year.

    $30 a week is fairly steep for a "GloboGym" . I pay €42 a month for a decent independent gym. I get a few nice bits and pieces for that too: 2 squat racks, deadlift platform, chains, gymnastic rings, glute ham raise (only one I've ever seen in a gym in Ireland or Canada) , liquid chalk free and a few other things.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    $30 a week is fairly steep for a "GloboGym" . I pay €42 a month for a decent independent gym. I get a few nice bits and pieces for that too: 2 squat racks, deadlift platform, chains, gymnastic rings, glute ham raise (only one I've ever seen in a gym in Ireland or Canada) , liquid chalk free and a few other things.

    Where is that Brian? Ironside has a reverse hyper and GHR and I think i remember seeing one years ago back when I didn't know what it was. Can't remember where though!


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,038 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    columok wrote: »
    Where is that Brian? Ironside has a reverse hyper and GHR and I think i remember seeing one years ago back when I didn't know what it was. Can't remember where though!

    http://www.platinumgyms.ie/

    Great little gym.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Crossfit have seen fit to bestow upon me the title of "Crossfit Level 1 Certified Trainer" - expect this boards kool aid levels to go ++.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Barry.Oglesby


    Cheque cleared then?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭Barry.Oglesby


    http://www.platinumgyms.ie/

    Great little gym.

    That place looks great. Is that where Chris Nolan teaches BJJ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭kevpants


    Hanley wrote: »
    Crossfit have seen fit to bestow upon me the title of "Crossfit Level 1 Certified Trainer" - expect this boards kool aid levels to go ++.

    2 questions.

    1. Do you feel different?

    2. Are you wearing a shirt right now?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    kevpants wrote: »
    2 questions.

    1. Do you feel different?

    2. Are you wearing a shirt right now?

    1) I feel smug
    2) No t-shirt, board shorts only


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