Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

foggy_lad · 12-10-2011 2:58pm

July 18-August 14

These dates may be significant as they may correspond with classes for language schools and might also be the peak holiday season.

westtip · 13-10-2011 10:16am

foggy_lad wrote: »

These dates may be significant as they may correspond with classes for language schools and might also be the peak holiday season.

Indeed and it was a footnote to the article almost. yes 4,500 in July August and "between 2000 and 3000" in the core commuter months is abject failure. If we are generous and say 2750 for ten months of yer and 4000 two months of the year - it will have "settled" into about 35000 passenger journies per annum on the through route. The business case if I recall was 100,000 and the previous debate on this issue a few months back showed about 50,000 journies being made so it has actually got worse.

Here is a quote from the previous Minister which I am sure is being dusted down and reread in the department:

Noel Dempsey – Minister of Transport. In a Speech at the opening of phase one (Ennis-Athenry) of the Western Rail Corridor in March 2011:

“However, we all have to face the reality that the current funding environment is very difficult and it will not be possible to progress all the projects in Transport 21 in accordance with the ambitious timescale envisioned at its launch.”

“I cannot overstate the critical importance of local support for Phase 1 of the Western Rail Corridor in promoting the development of further phases of the Corridor. Now that the dream of reopening Phase 1 of the Western Rail Corridor has been realised, the challenge is to ensure its success.”

Ahem....Are you enjoying the pension Noel????

Not to mention this quote: Don Cunningham of Irish Rail – in an Email of 6th October 2010 to the Department of Transport released under the FOI request:

“As regards passenger numbers on phase 1 of the WRC the average number per period (4 weeks duration) since the commencement of the service is 5166. If the first period is excluded this drops to 4,800. This translates into an annual figure of between 62,400 and 67,158 which is well below the 100,000 trip assumed in the business case”

And what are we down to now? 2,800 per month in commuter months and 4,500 in peak holiday month... oh dear oh dear WOT do we do now about this "vital piece of infrastructure"

LaFlammeRouge · 16-10-2011 4:24pm

westtip wrote: »

And what are we down to now? 2,800 per month in commuter months and 4,500 in peak holiday month... oh dear oh dear WOT do we do now about this "vital piece of infrastructure"

Ouch. And the 10euro promotional fare is doing nothing to lift numbers

. How much is Leo Varadkar going to cut from Irish Rail's budget this year? How much is the Dept of Welfare going to cut in the free travel scheme?

westtip · 17-10-2011 12:40pm

Indeedie, thinking about it, settling at about 35,000 passenger journies per annum on the ennis athenry route - which covers the "intercity" through passengers, to get to the desired business case numbers, the volome of passengers has to grow by just under 200%....ahem in an economy that is shrinking, losing population through emigration, and in an area of the country in which car dependency is increasing. Of course what we haven't seen is just what proportion of the passenger numbers are freebie social welfare tickets, if we say 20% we are down to under 30,000 fare paying passenger journies per annum. The FG/Labour programme for Govt had the extension north of Athenry down as one to undergo cost/benefit analysis.

Isn't it about time Government got off the pot on this one? and tell WOT the unsavoury truth. I reckon what we might see in the new NDP is the foreever painful holding operation on this one, sure it will happen but we just can't say when. WOT will accept their medicine in the "national interest" and make a press release along the lines of "whilst we are disappointed we are delighted that the WRC remains on the long term strategic objective and we will continue to campaign for this vital piece of infrastucture which now we have assurances from Government that it will happen eventually we are pleased to secure this committment etc etc"

The members of various councils and WOT hangers on will continue to attend western intercounty railway development committees - with the main item on the agenda always being spite: The greenway must be stopped at all costs even though we know the railway will never happen....and the second item being expenses payable to the Western intercounty railway committee.

Nothing will happen because doing nothing allows the government to promise everything - but actually deliver on nothing. Such is the nature of our democratic system.

serfboard · 19-10-2011 12:12am

westtip wrote: »

western intercounty railway development committees - with the main item on the agenda always being spite: The greenway must be stopped at all costs even though we know the railway will never happen....and the second item being expenses payable to the Western intercounty railway committee.

I reckon you've got the agenda the wrong way around there, westtip. I'd say it's expenses first and foremost, followed by Any Other Business!

Judgement Day · 19-10-2011 10:12am

Judging from the passenger figures it won't be long before the IRRS xxxxx 'special' is traversing the Ennis/Athenry section. :rolleyes:

westtip · 19-10-2011 10:33am

Judgement Day wrote: »

Judging from the passenger figures it won't be long before the IRRS xxxxx 'special' is traversing the Ennis/Athenry section. :rolleyes:

JD indeedie, I wonder how many coaches they will have on it just had a look at the Examiner website and searched on WRC - this is a quote from the news item in March last year when the line was re-opened - its a kind of "what happened next" quote

Examiner article re the re-opening of the Ennis Athenry line March 30th 2010:

Two-carriage commuter trains with a capacity for 120 people will initially be used and depending on demand, extra carriages can be added.

Iarnród Éireann business development manager Jim Gallivan said: "We can increase it to a four piece which would give us a capacity of 220. We will see how demand picks up.

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfkfojidmhgb/rss2/#ixzz1bDbfjMCQ

Partizan · 19-10-2011 10:49am

Judgement Day wrote: »

Judging from the passenger figures it won't be long before the IRRS xxxxx 'special' is traversing the Ennis/Athenry section. :rolleyes:

corktina · 19-10-2011 11:36am

westtip wrote: »

JD indeedie, I wonder how many coaches they will have on it just had a look at the Examiner website and searched on WRC - this is a quote from the news item in March last year when the line was re-opened - its a kind of "what happened next" quote

what a conundrum for IE. Do they improve the timetable to try and boost usage or do they slash the service because its losing (much more than expected) money?

I suspect they wont have much of a choice to make come the next budget.

westtip · 19-10-2011 2:42pm

corktina wrote: »

what a conundrum for IE. Do they improve the timetable to try and boost usage or do they slash the service because its losing (much more than expected) money?

I suspect they wont have much of a choice to make come the next budget.

Improve the timetable, Corky you are having a laugh (I know your are BTW!!) - six trains up and down a day already on this branch line (4 on sunday). 12 trains a day, monday to saturday and 8 on sunday = (12x6) +8 per week = 80 a week; per 4 week period = 320 and how many passengers did IE say in that FOI about 2800 per 4 weekly perod means we are now down to less than 9 passengers per train on the through route that the route has "settled into" Even in the really busy section Irish Rail identified in July August - 4500 passengers = 14 passengers per train on average. There must be trains running empty at some point in the day. Its actually now quite pathetic to hear any more arguments in favour of this fantasy project.

doomed we're doomed captain mannering (mainwaring - edit Corky yes indeed thank you stupid boy westtip).

corktina · 19-10-2011 2:54pm

they dont like it up em! (oh and its Mainwaring...:D

What I can't understand is WHY more people aren't absolutely furious about the money wasted out of their taxes on this line.

westtip · 19-10-2011 3:12pm

corktina wrote: »

they dont like it up em! (oh and its Mainwaring...:D

What I can't understand is WHY more people aren't absolutely furious about the money wasted out of their taxes on this line.

Understand the mindset - it was money spent in the wesht - anything spent in the wesht is good, they just don't gettit when you try to explain but what if the money had been spent on a different more effective transport project that would have helped l more people - the Claregalway by-pass for example would have done more for western axis north south journies and commerce than this line ever will.

highlydebased · 21-10-2011 12:39pm

Bridge Replacement Works - Ennis/Athenry - Sat 29 and Sun 30th October by Corporate Communications

Due to bridge replacement Works between Ennis and Athenry on Saturday 29th and Sunday 30th October, the following arrangements will apply:

Saturday 29th October

06.00, 09.35, 11.55, 14.15 and 18.05 Limerick to Galway services will operate to Ennis only. Bus transfers will operate from Ennis to Athenry. A second train will operate from Athenry to Galway.

20.15 Ennis to Galway will be bus transfers from Ennis to Athenry and by train from Athenry to Galway.

06.20, 09.40, 12.10, 14.30 and 17.30 Galway to Limerick services will operate to Athenry only. Bus transfers will operate from Athenry to Ennis. A second train will operate from Ennis to Limerick.

18.30 Galway to Ennis will operate to Athenry only. Bus transfers will operate from Athenry to Ennis.

Sunday 30th October

09.00, 12.30, 16.10 and 18.30 Limerick to Galway services will operate to Ennis only. Bus transfers will operate from Ennis to Athenry. A second train will operate from Athenry to Galway.

08.30, 12.00, 16.30 and 18.40 Galway to Limerick services will operate to Athenry only. Bus transfers will operate from Athenry to Ennis. A second train will operate from Ennis to Limerick.

Iarnród Éireann apologise for any inconvenience this may cause.

Oh dear, the bus will run far faster than the train. whatever will they do?

westtip · 21-10-2011 2:32pm

highlydebased wrote: »

Oh dear, the bus will run far faster than the train. whatever will they do?

Why didn't they just send a text message or letter out to each of the regular customers likely to use service. The staff on the line must be on first name terms with each and everyone of them at this stage. It wouldn't have taken long.

Victor · 21-10-2011 2:34pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

These dates may be significant as they may correspond with classes for language schools and might also be the peak holiday season.

Those dates likely correspond with the reporting periods that are used by railway companies. 13 x 4 week reporting periods = 1 year.

corktina · 21-10-2011 3:46pm

why didnt they just bus the passengers all the way?:rolleyes:

westtip · 21-10-2011 5:32pm

Victor wrote: »

Those dates likely correspond with the reporting periods that are used by railway companies. 13 x 4 week reporting periods = 1 year.

Yes Victor but the point made was the this particular four week reporting period coincided with the peak holiday/foreign student period, the issue is the four week periods outside of this one peak holiday period are showing simply dreadul numbers, not in their worst nightmares could WOT have thought the performance of the line was going to be as bad as it is. There are no hiding places now - this project has been an abject failure.

Carawaystick · 21-10-2011 10:08pm

Victor wrote: »

Those dates likely correspond with the reporting periods that are used by railway companies. 13 x 4 week reporting periods = 1 year.

wearing my pedantic hat, there's a day per year missing.

Victor · 22-10-2011 12:44am

Carawaystick wrote: »

wearing my pedantic hat, there's a day per year missing.

I think its thrown into the 13th period.

Cookie_Monster · 22-10-2011 12:56am

Carawaystick wrote: »

wearing my pedantic hat, there's a day per year missing.

wearing mine, it's 1.25 days a year

foggy_lad · 22-10-2011 2:45am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

wearing mine, it's 1.25 days a year

Unless its a leap year:D

eth0 · 22-10-2011 12:14pm

The amount of people arguing against the WRC is unreal. If we had a decent rail infrastructure in Ireland it would go a long way to reducing dependency on cars and fossil fuels.

And that involves having to build unprofitable routes. Each time someone takes the train instead of the car that's far less money going out of the country to the Arabs for fuel. A glorified cycle track is not an alternative to a decent railway line, never was.

It's madness in this day and age to be closing rail lines like Waterford to Rosslare and trying to prevent the opening of new lines.

Cookie_Monster · 22-10-2011 12:17pm

you do realise trains run on fuel too, which also come from the arabs. No point importing fuel to run empty trains where no one wants or needs them, especially when there are faster competing buses.

eth0 · 22-10-2011 12:27pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you do realise trains run on fuel too, which also come from the arabs. No point importing fuel to run empty trains where no one wants or needs them, especially when there are faster competing buses.

A lot less though, and Ireland has been notoriously slow in installing electric trains. Not a whole lot of point in running empty buses either and these are a lot harder to convert to electric since they need big expensive batteries

With request stops trains could be made faster. Buses around that part of the country are a torment taking massive detours to tiny villages and no comfort off them compared to a train which puts a lot of people off using them and taking the car instead.

The whole train system has been artificially made worse than the buses with services that don't connect and a lack of upgrades just so the people in CIE can go home with a huge bonus for saving so much money by closing a line that they ruined themselves over many years

Cookie_Monster · 22-10-2011 12:35pm

eth0 wrote: »

A lot less though, and Ireland has been notoriously slow in installing electric trains. Not a whole lot of point in running empty buses either and these are a lot harder to convert to electric since they need big expensive batteries

With request stops trains could be made faster. Buses around that part of the country are a torment taking massive detours to tiny villages and no comfort off them compared to a train which puts a lot of people off using them and taking the car instead.

The bus from galway to limerick is faster than the same train. have you ever travelled on a 22k railcar, they are not comfortable at all. Apart from he table I see no benefit over the bus on such a route, faster, cheaper, more frequent...

as for electrification it ain't gonna happen any time soon in Ireland due to the expense and small scale.

corktina · 22-10-2011 1:02pm

...and I don't think the buses are empty either. Less than 9 passengers per train on the new bit of the WRC so far (except in the busy peak summer when they hit the dizzy heights of 14!

MAybe some people like throwing their tax euros down the pan, but I don't and I'm a died-in-the-wool railfan!

eth0 · 22-10-2011 1:13pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The bus from galway to limerick is faster than the same train. have you ever travelled on a 22k railcar, they are not comfortable at all. Apart from he table I see no benefit over the bus on such a route, faster, cheaper, more frequent...

as for electrification it ain't gonna happen any time soon in Ireland due to the expense and small scale.

yep, much more comfortable than the bus, I fecking hate the buses really but it has a lot to do with the bad roads they travel on and the traffic they get stuck on

corktina wrote: »

...and I don't think the buses are empty either. Less than 9 passengers per train on the new bit of the WRC so far (except in the busy peak summer when they hit the dizzy heights of 14!

MAybe some people like throwing their tax euros down the pan, but I don't and I'm a died-in-the-wool railfan!

Looks like i could single-handedly push up the average so but that service is also being fecked up deliberately. Last day I was meant to go on the new section the train from Limerick Junction waited for a late train from Dublin, the one from Limerick to Galway didn't bother waiting and there were a good few people who were supposed to be heading to galway on that train who missed it. So lower average numbers as a result.

If there were people running the trains that actually had a serious interest in providing a service better than the bus they could do it but it seems they have the attitude that money not spent on trains means more money for their salary.

highlydebased · 22-10-2011 1:28pm

eth0 wrote: »

yep, much more comfortable than the bus, I fecking hate the buses really but it has a lot to do with the bad roads they travel on and the traffic they get stuck on

Ah, well, in the case of Limerick-Galway theres dual carraigeway or motorway 75% the way there which are both excellent roads. The N18 other than that is a decent road anyway. That entirely negates it to be honest...

eth0 wrote: »

Looks like i could single-handedly push up the average so but that service is also being fecked up deliberately. Last day I was meant to go on the new section the train from Limerick Junction waited for a late train from Dublin, the one from Limerick to Galway didn't bother waiting and there were a good few people who were supposed to be heading to galway on that train who missed it. So lower average numbers as a result.

If there were people running the trains that actually had a serious interest in providing a service better than the bus they could do it but it seems they have the attitude that money not spent on trains means more money for their salary.

Seriously? That probably makes féck all difference to the average. I'd say the majority of those people were probably going to Ennis anyway. Why would you go from Dublin to Galway via Limerick? Would take twice as long

corktina · 22-10-2011 1:35pm

The N18 also has the advantage that it goes to Galway not Athenry...

I can't see many people travelling from Lim Junct to Galway like that. As said those connecting off the Dublin train if going beyond Limerick would be going to Ennis (an established flow before the new bit of WRC opened). Anyone travelling through to Galway would probably find it quicker to go via Dublin (or possibly there would be a connection at Port Laoise or somewhere on to that line

roundymac · 22-10-2011 2:05pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The bus from galway to limerick is faster than the same train. have you ever travelled on a 22k railcar, they are not comfortable at all.

I thought it was 2700's were running on the WRC.

Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Comments