Dogs in shops

bowsie010 wrote: »

Not everyone likes your autistic brother

Aren't you clever!

almaocarroll wrote: »

I know a hell of alot of people who don't have Autism that are terrified of dogs too and probably would have reacted the same way as my brother, had that happened to them. It's not on - there's no need for your dog to be in a store - it's not cute, not everyone likes animals, not everyone likes the idea of animals being near food or items they want to buy, and as you can see from my story, sometimes it can be a horrible experience to someone who isn't expecting it.

I'm sorry about the situation with your brother but there will always be dogs in shops. Guide dogs have been around for a long time but in the last decade or so the uses of assistance dogs have multiplied significantly. There are dogs for the deaf, alert dogs for epileptics and other seizure alert dogs, dogs that assist wheelchair users, dogs that assist people with other physical disabilities, psychiatric service dogs, hypo alert dogs for diabetics and even assistance dogs for autism.

Beyond that there are many other working dogs that will be in public places, sniffer dogs sniff; fire hazards, money, explosive devices, people, firearms, blood, bodies and drugs. It's not that unusual to see the Gardaí dog units, with protection/crowd control dogs either. Along with all of those dogs are people who work at socialising pups to be trained as all emergency service and assistance dogs. For all you know the pup in question was in training, as otherwise it's unlikely to have been allowed in a supermarket.

I doubt more than a couple of weeks go by that most people aren't in close proximity to a working dog in public. That's only going to increase as more and more medical uses for dogs are discovered and rolled out. As difficult as it is with your brother you can't expect to bring him out in public and for him to never see a dog indoors. I know it would be far, far from easy but you should take this as a sign that as long and hard a road as it will be, your family need to teach him to overcome his fear. I'm not sure if it's the type of thing they can help with but http://www.autismassistancedogsireland.ie/ might be able to offer some advice.

iguana wrote: »

I'm sorry about the situation with your brother but there will always be dogs in shops. Guide dogs have been around for a long time but in the last decade or so the uses of assistance dogs have multiplied significantly. There are dogs for the deaf, alert dogs for epileptics and other seizure alert dogs, dogs that assist wheelchair users, dogs that assist people with other physical disabilities, psychiatric service dogs, hypo alert dogs for diabetics and even assistance dogs for autism.

Beyond that there are many other working dogs that will be in public places, sniffer dogs sniff; fire hazards, money, explosive devices, people, firearms, blood, bodies and drugs. It's not that unusual to see the Gardaí dog units, with protection/crowd control dogs either. Along with all of those dogs are people who work at socialising pups to be trained as all emergency service and assistance dogs. For all you know the pup in question was in training, as otherwise it's unlikely to have been allowed in a supermarket.

I doubt more than a couple of weeks go by that most people aren't in close proximity to a working dog in public. That's only going to increase as more and more medical uses for dogs are discovered and rolled out. As difficult as it is with your brother you can't expect to bring him out in public and for him to never see a dog indoors. I know it would be far, far from easy but you should take this as a sign that as long and hard a road as it will be, your family need to teach him to overcome his fear. I'm not sure if it's the type of thing they can help with but http://www.autismassistancedogsireland.ie/ might be able to offer some advice.

The dog with the girl was not a dog in training - it was a *** *zu/small type dog and it was in a childs arms as she was walking around the supermarket.
I believe a puppy in training is required to wear the vest indicating that he is in training. I know of a lady near me that trains labs for the blind.

I must say, I have maybe once encountered a blind person with a dog on Limericks main streets and never in a supermarket - I would make allowances for them but that doesn't make dogs any less scary to those who have a fear.
It's never come up for my brother in the proper situation - it's always been (and it's happened maybe four times in the last three years) someone bringing a dog they shouldn't be into a shop - and for some reason they make a beeline for my brother.

I have never, ever encountered a Gardai dog or a working dog as described above - the only time I have ever encountered a working dog was in Australia and it was a beagle dog trained to search for both drugs and food.

My brother would never be able to avail of the dog assistance program as his fear is overwhelming to him and he is a giant of a man. We have him, as I said before, at a stage where he calmly edges past a dog tied up outside but no way could he handle some irresponsible parent parading their child around a shop with their new puppy! He was badly bitten as a child and will never get over it - though we have tried on many occassions it has mostly ended with my brother injuring himself and others trying to get away.

Also, like I said before, I know of many many adults who do not have autism or similar that would be equally as terrified of dogs. I am also aware that dogs are being used for less these days as technology is being rolled out that is far more beneficial and reliable. The lady that trains the dogs told me that her group train less dogs now than they ever did.

Like I also said before - dogs have no place in a store - most especially if it's only a pet - like this debate is about! Not everyone is madly in love with animals and I'm generally of the opinion that your pet doesn't really want to be inside a store and it's only really for the benefit of the owner. I have never encountered a working dog inside a store - not even once.



Bottom line - if yr dog isn't a working dog - then no, you shouldn't be bringing it into a store/restaurant/supermarket - there is no need and it causes others stress. It's very insensitive to others.

BT don't just allow dogs in their shop, they actually employ them!

MistyCheese wrote: »

Well then why pick a fight if we are not disagreeing?

I was just replying to your post. I was making sure that your grievances weren't projecting onto my issue. You were adding my issues to your outside park issue. Which I don't have an issue with.

MistyCheese wrote: »

Grand, so. Neither of us have an issue then. I agree that dogs shouldn't be in supermarkets and you agree that they can be in parks.

This has been a full of win conversation

When I used to work in the video store in my hometown, my dog at the time, a black labrador collie, would follow me down to work or show up outside the shop after a while.

She wouldn't go home at all, and would wait outside until I finished work which could often be up to 9 hours. On colder days, I used to let her lie inside the door. On really Baltic days, she would lie behind the counter. She was in plain sight the entire time, and was one of the most placid creatures you would come across.

I never once got a complaint, as she wasn't in the way, was happy out just lying in the corner, and would let people pet her if they wanted or ignore them otherwise.

I have no problem with dogs in shops, as long as you're not having to climb over them to get in the door or stinking up the place.

Redhairedguy wrote: »

When I used to work in Xtravision, my dog at the time, a black labrador collie, would follow me down to work or show up outside the shop after a while.

She wouldn't go home at all, and would wait outside until I finished work which could often be up to 9 hours. On colder days, I used to let her lie inside the door. On really Baltic days, she would lie behind the counter. She was in plain sight the entire time, and was one of the most placid creatures you would come across.

I never once got a complaint, as she wasn't in the way, was happy out just lying in the corner, and would let people pet her if they wanted or ignore them otherwise.

I have no problem with dogs in shops, as long as you're not having to climb over them to get in the door or stinking up the place.

Why was your dog not on a leash - is that not the law?

Redhairedguy wrote: »

Cause I wouldn't have one on me. Like I said, she'd follow me down to work or appear after a while. That dog was very much her own free spirit.

And no, before you ask, I never thought of bringing a lead with me to work on the off chance she'd show up.

Saw nothing online about a law for that particular scenario, guess it's down to the individual and the nature of the dog.

Well, I believe the law is, if you're away from home and have no intention of bringing your dog properly with you, then you lock the dog somewhere where it can't roam freely. Like inside a fence. Pets aren't allowed to be "Free spirits" - what an irresponsible owner you are!
Did you clean up after the dogs leavings during the 9 hour period? If you didn't bother with a leash, I can only assume you didn't bring a baggie either or a water bowl.
You do know that anyone who encountered your dog was totally within their rights to call someone of authority to take your dog away.

Redhairedguy wrote: »

The dog would head off for a bit every now and then. Plenty of fields and whatnot out my way. She never crapped or pissed inside or directly outside the shop ever. Would have cleaned it up if she did



There was an old plastic container in the back room that was used for water. People would feed her snacks all the time.



Yes. Most likely. But this was a couple of years ago, when people were more laid back and not utter prolapses like they are now



Dude, I worked in a video store in a small town... Plus, like I said, nothing was ever said about it, either to me or one of my colleagues. If there was something said, I would have stopped the dog coming inside.

I hope you're not still treating your pet as poorly now as you were back then. That is totally irresponsible pet ownership - no matter how small a town you lived in. If you were in the country and livestock were nearby I'm sure farmers weren't too pleased to see your dog roaming their fields.
No matter, even if they didn't care, letting your dog walk around pretty much doing whatever it wanted was never an okay thing to do.
These aren't new laws. There were adverts in the 80's on RTE spelling it out to people that it wasn't a legal thing to do.

almaocarroll wrote: »

I hope you're not still treating your pet as poorly now as you were back then.

I think it's quite clear he wasn't/isn't mistreating his dog. It seems like this topic is quite sensitive for you.
I find it hard to believe that you don't encounter working dogs inside shops. They're commonplace all over the country and in many abroad too. There's no difference between a working dog and a trained pet. If someone doesn't have control over their dog then they should be asked to leave.
But stopping all dog owners and their dogs coming in is stupid.
People being afraid is not a valid excuse either. People all over the world have fears of everyday items and occurances. My brother has a fear of ketchup (don't ask!). Should ketchup be banned from shops and restaurants too?

The notion people have that dogs are filthy animals that pee everywhere and cause trouble is just laughable.

almaocarroll wrote: »

No, it's not a bit stupid to not want animals inside stores - they are animals, it's not hygienic and yes, a person who has a fear of dogs is a very valid excuse. It does not compare in any way to someones fear of Ketchup.

Putting a pet before a human being when it comes to basic things like the right to go into a store or restaurant is never the way to go. Pets don't care if they are in a store, they aren't customers, they want to be outside.
A store is never going to agree to let it happen as they will lose customers and gain nothing but dog hairs all over their clothes and accidents.

There is absolutely no need whatsoever for someones pet to be going into a store. NONE.

Like I said, fair enough for working animals and also like I said, they are becoming less of a necessity lately, I have never encountered a working dog bar once on the street, I live in Limerick city, it has never been an issue with my brother - LIKE I SAID BEFORE the only issues he has encountered are from ignorant pet owners.

I'm sick of repeating myself now.

TL;DR
PETS IN STORES = NO WORKING ANIMALS = YES

Fear is not a valid excuse. Should we just kill every dog and have them extinct so we can be sure that humans don't have to face their fear. And how about cats? People are afraid of them also. Planes? Water? Heights?
What don't you get? People are afraid of stuff all the time. We can't ban things outright so people with a fear come first.
And not every dog wants to be outside. Not every dog likes being tied up. Not every dog likes being kept at home while their owner has to run errands. And then owners are accused of being irresponsible when they do this!

And if you feel you're repeating yourself all the time, then maybe it's because people keep finding fault with your arguments and you've failed to come up with anything else.
It sucks your brother has a fear of dogs but I'm not going to tell someone to lock their dog up because he has. Unfortunately your brother is going to have to live with it.
And service animals are not becoming less common. Technology might assist but it has not replaced service animals by any means.

almaocarroll wrote: »

This is all extremist trolling, none of what you said above makes sense in any realistic way - I gave my answers, they were plain and simple, I gave clear explanations as to why. I'm not going to waste my time engaging with you further - night night.

If you think I'm trolling, fine, good night to you.
I argued your answers, plain and simple. Is everyone who disagrees with you trolling? It's like the boards version of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying 'la la la la la'. Childish and irrelevant.

I'm not sure where I was being unclear. Let me break it down for you again.
People have fears - silly to ban things like dogs in shop because someone doesn't like them.
Dogs are dirty - Stray dogs, yes. Pets, not usually.
Dogs pee everywhere - Untrained dogs, yes. Trained dogs, no.
Dogs shed hair everywhere - Some do, some don't, some couldn't be bothered walking through clothes to shed on them in the 1st place or are well behaved.
Dogs belong outside - Why? Who decides this? Humans lived without housing for years (some still do), do we belong outside?
You don't see service animals in shops/restaurants - does that mean it doesn't happen often? Unlikely.
Service animals are ok but pets are not - What is the difference between an officer sitting in a coffeeshop with their trained working dog and an owner sitting with their trained pet? Honestly, what is the difference? Is the service dog immune from all your arguments of shedding hair, peeing, scaring people who don't like dogs?

You have no real argument, only your dislike to dogs.