Liverpool v Manchester United, Anfield, 15th October 12:45 - (MOD NOTE - Post #1)

TheTosh · 15-10-2011 12:05AM

Sean Bateman wrote: »

There's no bait here dude...I'm no troll.

My views aren't "the Earth is flat" stuff...they're reasoned and thought out contentions. To be honest, how anyone can believe that Andy Carroll's anything other than a terrible signing is beyond me. It's like paying £40 million for Kevin Doyle.

In my view anyone defending Andy Carroll should be investigated for trolling.

Give the lad a break he hasn't been at the club a year yet and he's being wrote off, I know 35m is a massive price tag he has to live up to but he's only 22 and big target men don't generally hit their prime till about 28, so he has plenty of time to prove doubters wrong.

Personally I do think Liverpool overpaid for him but to be labelled a terrible signing is a premature assessment only in a few years will we be able to truly make that kind of judgement.

shizz · 15-10-2011 12:16AM

soooooo the match then? What do people reckon? I really can't wait for it. Im guessing a draw.

Sean Bateman · 15-10-2011 12:30AM

murpho999 wrote: »

Why are you banging on about Carroll, whose Liverpool career is only starting and cannot be judged yet, whilst Veron's Utd career is over and can easily be judged as total and utter flop.

Sold on to Chelsea for £15m after 2 seasons.

It's also listed by The Times amongst the The 50 Worst Premiership Transfers ever. Go look that up.

There's a world of difference between the two. Veron was a world class player signed for big money who just didn't work out. It's also worth noting that Chelsea lost more money on him than United did.

Carroll is not a world class player yet he's been signed for massive money.

TheTosh wrote: »

Give the lad a break he hasn't been at the club a year yet and he's being wrote off, I know 35m is a massive price tag he has to live up to but he's only 22 and big target men don't generally hit their prime till about 28, so he has plenty of time to prove doubters wrong.

Personally I do think Liverpool overpaid for him but to be labelled a terrible signing is a premature assessment only in a few years will we be able to truly make that kind of judgement.

He cost £35 million. He's one of the most expensive players in the history of football. Just to be a good signing he needs to score a bucket load of goals and fire Liverpool to glory at home and abroad. Plus he's 22, not 17. How much better is he going to get? If a guy who cost £35 million doesn't light up the place, he's a terrible signing. Right now, he's worse than Shevchenko.

Will I Amnt · 15-10-2011 12:31AM

shizz wrote: »

soooooo the match then? What do people reckon? I really can't wait for it. Im guessing a draw.

I'm hoping we can go there and outplay Liverpool.
We have the better players there's no doubt about that but we have looked poor or were made to look poor the last few occassions.

Should be a good game and i am more confident this year than last.

Apart from 3 points I want to be able to walk into work Monday and not have to listen to ****e all day.

niallo27 · 15-10-2011 12:33AM

Sean Bateman wrote: »

There's a world of difference between the two. Veron was a world class player signed for big money who just didn't work out. It's also worth noting that Chelsea lost more money on him than United did.

Carroll is not a world class player yet he's been signed for massive money.

He cost £35 million. He's one of the most expensive players in the history of football. Just to be a good signing he needs to score a bucket load of goals and fire Liverpool to glory at home and abroad. Plus he's 22, not 17. How much better is he going to get? If a guy who cost £35 million doesn't light up the place, he's a terrible signing. Right now, he's worse than Shevchenko.

The bigger question is why do you care so much, you have mentioned andy carrol in your posts 127 times in the last few months, thats a bit obsessive.

TheTosh · 15-10-2011 12:50AM

Sean Bateman wrote: »

He cost £35 million. He's one of the most expensive players in the history of football. Just to be a good signing he needs to score a bucket load of goals and fire Liverpool to glory at home and abroad. Plus he's 22, not 17. How much better is he going to get? If a guy who cost £35 million doesn't light up the place, he's a terrible signing. Right now, he's worse than Shevchenko.

22 is still young and I'd never write off someone that is still eligible for the young player of the year award. How much better can he get? No player hits their prime at 22 so yes he should develop into a better player as he gets more experience and matures.

As for worse then Shevchenko, really? Chelsea paying 30m for a 30 year old is worse then Liverpool signing Carroll for 35m? The only way to make a fair judgement on that is to compare them together when Carroll has been at Liverpool for the same amount of time that Shevchenko was at Chelsea for.

Yakult · 15-10-2011 12:53AM

The ignore button is a great feature

Sean Bateman · 15-10-2011 12:56AM

TheTosh wrote: »

22 is still young and I'd never write off someone that is still eligible for the young player of the year award. How much better can he get? No player hits their prime at 22 so yes he should develop into a better player as he gets more experience and matures.

As for worse then Shevchenko, really? Chelsea paying 30m for a 30 year old is worse then Liverpool signing Carroll for 35m? The only way to make a fair judgement on that is to compare them together when Carroll has been at Liverpool for the same amount of time that Shevchenko was at Chelsea for.

Developing into a better player won't be enough. Given his transfer fee, he needs to develop from his present Kevin Davies (2011 model) incarnation into Alan Shearer (1998 model). That's caterpillar to butterfly stuff and i can't see it happening.

As for your Shevchenko comment, the funny thing is I believe that their careers with Liverpool and Chelsea respectively will be of similar lengths and similarly successful.

Niall, in all the years that I've been watching the game, Carroll's the worst signing that I've ever seen...hence my interest in him.

niallo27 · 15-10-2011 01:09AM

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Developing into a better player won't be enough. Given his transfer fee, he needs to develop from his present Kevin Davies (2011 model) incarnation into Alan Shearer (1998 model). That's caterpillar to butterfly stuff and i can't see it happening.

As for your Shevchenko comment, the funny thing is I believe that their careers with Liverpool and Chelsea respectively will be of similar lengths and similarly successful.

Niall, in all the years that I've been watching the game, Carroll's the worst signing that I've ever seen...hence my interest in him.

Your interest is bordering on obsession though, you cant right him off like that yet, it was a crazy amount of money but it wasnt his fault that much was spent on him. He has showed potential this season and last, how much of him have you actually seen.

shrewdness · 15-10-2011 02:51AM

murpho999 wrote: »

Why are you banging on about Carroll, whose Liverpool career is only starting and cannot be judged yet, whilst Veron's Utd career is over and can easily be judged as total and utter flop.

Sold on to Chelsea for £15m after 2 seasons.

It's also listed by The Times amongst the The 50 Worst Premiership Transfers ever. Go look that up.

If that list were to be revised in a few years, Carroll himself would likely be near the top unless he improves dramatically.

Leiva · 15-10-2011 06:55AM

Enjoy the match lads .

I'm gonna deliberately avoid this thread til after the game due to a couple of well known posters (on both sides) who are, and will be determined to drag and turn it into a shiite heap of embarrassments .

It's quite sad actually that the well known numptys ruin it for the majority .

Enjoy and may we have another ding dong game .

With Liverpool winning of course

Later.

MagicMarker · 15-10-2011 07:50AM

Why did I have to wake up so early!!!!!!! :mad:

I'm going to say that if Vidic starts then I'd be confident of a win, but I don't think he will start.

everdead.ie · 15-10-2011 08:47AM

I enjoy matches like these because I don't get that pit in my stomach feeling. Just wondering though I know Suarez hasn't scored v spurs but I'm wondering against the top 10 kind of clubs what's his scoring record been like?

Copper_pipe · 15-10-2011 08:51AM

Id like to see a High scoring draw or a United Win!

djPSB · 15-10-2011 08:51AM

Sean Bateman wrote: »

A silly post.

Veron was a world class player and nobody batted and eyelid when United signed him for £28 million.

Carroll is not a world class player and most people I know (both Liverpool fans and non Liverpool fans) were aghast when Liverpool paid £35 million for him.

Stop citing Veron in discussions about Andy Carroll...you're embarrassing yourself.

No that's just being hypocritical you see. Carroll has only played a handful of games for Liverpool and he's only 22, yet some people deem him a failure already.
Veron, and maybe even Berbatov to a lesser degree, was signed for a similiar fee, and was a complete flop. Yet United supporters like to gloss this transfer over with the 'he did'nt settle', 'he needed to play in Keanes position' excuses.

15-10-2011 10:02AM

djPSB wrote: »

No that's just being hypocritical you see. Carroll has only played a handful of games for Liverpool and he's only 22, yet some people deem him a failure already.
Veron, and maybe even Berbatov to a lesser degree, was signed for a similiar fee, and was a complete flop. Yet United supporters like to gloss this transfer over with the 'he did'nt settle', 'he needed to play in Keanes position' excuses.

yeah Berba was a total flop. He can probably console himself with the golden boot and PL medal on his mantlepiece though...

Veron wasn't as bad as people make out. For someone playing out of position he did quite well in his 2nd season and I was surprised he was sold. Got £15m for him so he was obviously still highly rated somewhere and still had a great career overall.