Christians been driven out of the middle east?

Paddy Samurai · 10-10-2011 05:00PM #1

With the rise of militant Islam in countries involved in the arab spring,it looks like in some countries that Christians are been increasingly targeted .
Its looks like they were safer under the so called dictators.

During the initial anti-President Mubarak protests in February, many of the demonstrators were young, modern, secular types who were in favour of full rights for the Christian demonstrators in their midst.
Now, however, the dominant force behind most street protests and political activity is the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist movements and the original protesters have lost control of the demonstrations.
This has gone hand in hand with an upsurge in attacks on Christians.

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16086142

The Middle East is the birthplace of Christianity and home to some of the world's most ancient Christian denominations. But Christian communities across the region are declining in numbers because of a combination of low birth rates, emigration and, in some places, persecution and violence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15239529

Jordan and Israel seem to be fairly open.Would it make any difference if all Christians left the middle east?.

Killer Pigeon · 10-10-2011 05:01PM

>>>> Christianity Forum

As long as it eventually leads to the total annihilation of all religions, I couldn't give a damn.

lazygal · 10-10-2011 05:02PM

Also, it's BEING not BEEN. Christians aren't exempt from grammar rules, despite what your God might say.

old hippy · 10-10-2011 05:04PM

Whilst not being religious in the slightest, I don't agree that people should be driven out of a country because of their faith.

Cavehill Red · 10-10-2011 05:04PM

Give the OP a break. He's right to highlight this. Our media (influenced by the London press) is way to eager to applaud the so-called Arab Spring without inquiring too closely into some of its dark corners. The ongoing massacre at Sirte is one such corner - the ethnic cleansing of Coptic Christians in Egypt is another.

ejmaztec · 10-10-2011 05:06PM

lazygal wrote: »

Also, it's BEING not BEEN. Christians aren't exempt from grammar rules, despite what your God might say.

They are on this forum, as per the rules.:P

partyatmygaff · 10-10-2011 05:06PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

>>>> Christianity Forum

As long as it eventually leads to the total annihilation of all religions, I couldn't give a damn.

You sound like a delightful person. People being driven out of their homes and killed and you just keep pushing for your ideology.

lazygal · 10-10-2011 05:06PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

They are on this forum, as per the rules.:P

That's not how I roll!

Dudess · 10-10-2011 05:06PM

Our press and the British press are so "pro muslim" they have no problem with small girls getting their genitals carved up - fact. :cool:

Steodonn · 10-10-2011 05:06PM

I would rather the Christians leave Ireland imo

ejmaztec · 10-10-2011 05:07PM

lazygal wrote: »

That's not how I roll!

Neither do I, but we have to take the rough with the smooth.:(

old hippy · 10-10-2011 05:08PM

Dudess wrote: »

Our press and the British press are so "pro muslim" they have no problem with small girls getting their genitals carved up - fact. :cool:

Backed up with appropriate links, of course

Killer Pigeon · 10-10-2011 05:08PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

You sound like a delightful person. People being driven out of their homes and killed and you just keep pushing for your ideology.

I really doubts it's as bad as Skynews is reporting.

Dudess · 10-10-2011 05:09PM

old hippy wrote: »

Backed up with appropriate links, of course

'Twas irony - some folks around here have it in their imagination that not being anti muslim = defender of Sharia law...

partyatmygaff · 10-10-2011 05:09PM

Paddy Samurai wrote: »

Jordan and Israel seem to be fairly open.Would it make any difference if all Christians left the middle east?.

Would it have made any difference if all the Irish left Ireland during the British plantations? There's nothing at all right about people being persecuted for their religious beliefs and being bullied out of their homes (And sometimes killed) by what are essentially long-standing invaders. I am of course talking about the situation in Egypt. Egypt was originally a Christian country in the years that followed Greco-Roman Egypt until it was invaded and taken over by the Arabs whose descendants now form part of the force attempting to force Christians to emigrate out of their own country.

old hippy · 10-10-2011 05:09PM

Dudess wrote: »

'Twas irony - some folks around here have it in their imagination that not being anti muslim = defender of Sharia law...

Ah, ok

ejmaztec · 10-10-2011 05:12PM

Does "driven out" mean that they give them a lift to the airport, or does it mean "kill them"?

partyatmygaff · 10-10-2011 05:15PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I really doubts it's as bad as Skynews is reporting.

I have family over there. The little that Sky News reports has nothing on what's really going on over there.

Just yesterday in a demonstration after an attack on a church, the army ran over and crushed a Christian protestor's head under a vehicle. This "revolution" business has brought about hell for minorities in the region.

seamus · 10-10-2011 05:15PM

It's not really surprising. Radical groups of any kind are typically the most organised and by definition the most militant, so are the ones most likely to fill a power void when one appears.

Protests which start out very liberal and leaderless will either break down and dissipate because they lack direction, or will be hijacked by such radical groups who already have the organisation and leadership required to keep the protest going.

What's ironic is that this could lead to UN intervention against the protestors and an attempt to reinstall someone linked to Mubarak, at least in the short-term.

Chuck Stone · 10-10-2011 05:16PM

This stinks.

Suryavarman · 10-10-2011 05:18PM

I had a feeling that something bad was going to "spring" out of these revolutions.

Johro · 10-10-2011 05:19PM

Paddy Samurai wrote: »

With the rise of militant Islam in countries involved in the arab spring,it looks like in some countries that Christians are been increasingly targeted .
Its looks like they were safer under the so called dictators.

I think we need to be careful here and keep things in perspective before we have another 'Islam's coming to get ya' thread. From what I've seen so far, a rise of militant Islam is the opposite of what the majority of people involved in the 'Arab Spring' want.
Militant Islam is just as limiting to their freedom as dictators are.

Cavehill Red · 10-10-2011 05:23PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Egypt was originally a Christian country in the years that followed Greco-Roman Egypt until it was invaded and taken over by the Arabs whose descendants now form part of the force attempting to force Christians to emigrate out of their own country.

Ah, now Ted! Egypt originally a Christian country?

What's this about then?

Or this?

Or this?

partyatmygaff · 10-10-2011 05:25PM

You could have actually read my post... it tends to help avoid embarrassing situations like these.

Egypt was originally a Christian country in the years that followed Greco-Roman Egypt until it was invaded and taken over by the Arabs
That part in bold is a time period...

Cavehill Red · 10-10-2011 05:28PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

You could have actually read my post... it tends to help avoid embarrassing situations like these.

Egypt was originally a Christian country in the years that followed Greco-Roman Egypt until it was invaded and taken over by the Arabs
That part in bold is a time period...

I read your post. You don't really comprehend the meaning of the word 'originally'. (Clue - it means at the point of origin, not a brief period in the middle.) Your logic is Egypt was a Christian country for a brief period of time some more than 1400 years ago. That doesn't make it a Christian country in any meaningful sense. It was nominally Christian between a lengthy period of worshipping their own ancient deities and then a further lengthy period of being predominantly Muslim.
DNA testing on modern Egyptians shows that they are related to their Osiris-worshipping forefathers, and hence were NOT displaced by invading Arabs as you suggest.

Chuck Stone · 10-10-2011 05:29PM

Johro wrote: »

I think we need to be careful here and keep things in perspective before we have another 'Islam's coming to get ya' thread. From what I've seen so far, a rise of militant Islam is the opposite of what the majority of people involved in the 'Arab Spring' want.
Militant Islam is just as limiting to their freedom as dictators are.

That's why it stinks.

I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if it was deliberate agitation fomented by those who would not like to see a democratic Egypt.

Johro · 10-10-2011 05:30PM

I don't think it matters whether Egypt was Christian or Muslim. Go back far enough and they worshipped different gods altogether. Past or present religions shouldn't define who have a right to live on its soil.

partyatmygaff · 10-10-2011 05:40PM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I read your post. You don't really comprehend the meaning of the word 'originally'. (Clue - it means at the point of origin, not a brief period in the middle.) Your logic is Egypt was a Christian country for a brief period of time some more than 1400 years ago.

No. My logic is that Christianity has been alive in Egypt long before Islam came on to the scene. Hence the injustice of modern day Islamists trying to force Christians out of Egypt.

Cavehill Red · 10-10-2011 05:46PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

No. My logic is that Christianity has been alive in Egypt long before Islam came on to the scene. Hence the injustice of modern day Islamists trying to force Christians out of Egypt.

Christianity predates Islam shock!
I thought that might be your point which is why I introduced you to the concept of the Egyptian pantheon that - shock again! - was in Egypt for thousands of years before Christianity came onto the scene.
Egypt is a predominantly Muslim country with a Christian minority and has been for centuries.
The reason why it is unjust to ethnically cleanse the Coptic Christians is because ethnic cleansing is itself morally f ucking evil. It doesn't really matter what flavour of godbothering happens to be responsible.

Johro · 10-10-2011 05:47PM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

No. My logic is that Christianity has been alive in Egypt long before Islam came on to the scene. Hence the injustice of modern day Islamists trying to force Christians out of Egypt.

I don't think anyone denies there's an injustice here, but it would still be an injustice if those Christians had set up shop, so to speak, yesterday.

johnmcdnl · 10-10-2011 05:53PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

>>>> Christianity Forum

As long as it eventually leads to the total annihilation of all religions, I couldn't give a damn.

Steodonn wrote: »

I would rather the Christians leave Ireland imo

would that include you as well as I'd say there's a fair few of the posters on here who seem to love Christian's being persecuted but are baptised themselves... if your one of the lucky ones who had atheist parents well good for you but how many of your friends were baptised... would you like to see them killed simply because a piece of paper says that they were Christians remembering that you can't get yourself out of the Catholic church...

if this happened in Ireland and all the Protestants and Muslims and Jews were killed and driven out would you support it??? just to get rid of religion...

if I remember correctly most people on here seemed to be in support of the rebels when they were getting rid of Ghadaffi and Mubarack and all which is fair enough - but do you honestly think that this is acceptable... trying to kill innocent people simply because they believe in a different god to them...

this is what I think most people were afraid of happening when these uprisings happened - that one dictator would be replaced with something worse...

Christians been driven out of the middle east?

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