Greece ?????????

x in the city · 09-10-2011 09:12PM

4leto wrote: »

errr I assume you are Irish, who are we to preach to them we are not in a good position either.

Ireland has some history, great authors,poets, song writers, craic agus ceoil.

Greece is just...like a place people go for a tan.

and they have no jobs... at all.

why should anyone else bail them out.

Ireland has lots of jobs, just that companies are not hiring and keeping what personnel they have..

Its nuts to give them money, whatever about italy, which is a vastly more developed and modern country.

4leto · 09-10-2011 09:13PM

Batsy wrote: »

Adam and Eve.

Then how about Cain and Able.

Carpenter · 09-10-2011 09:14PM

niallsparky wrote: »

Why do you have so many question marks in your thread title OP when you haven't even asked a question?

??????????????????????????????:D don't no why

pebbles21 · 09-10-2011 09:18PM

x in the city wrote: »

Ireland has some history, great authors,poets, song writers, craic agus ceoil.

Greece is just...like a place people go for a tan.

LOL........Fail in history much??

Batsy · 09-10-2011 09:21PM

squod wrote: »

Coulda just called him Alexander the gay.

The most widespread form of same-sex sexual relations in ancient Greece was between adult men and pubescent or adolescent boys. The Greek word "paiderastia" means "boy love".

It was the duty of the adult man to court the boy who struck his fancy, and it was viewed as socially appropriate for the younger man to withhold for a while before capitulating to his mentor's desires. This waiting period allowed the boy to ensure that his suitor was not merely interested in him for sexual purposes but felt a genuine emotional affection for him and was interested in assuming the mentor role assigned to him in the pederastic paradigm.

The age limit for pederasty in ancient Greece seems to encompass, at the minimum end, boys of twelve years of age. To love a boy below the age of twelve was considered inappropriate, but no evidence exists of any legal penalties attached to this sort of practice. Traditionally, a pederastic relationship could continue until the widespread growth of the boy's body hair, when he is considered a man. Thus, the age limit for the younger member of a pederastic relationship seems to have extended from 12 to about 17 years of age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece

Alexander the Great himself had several male lovers, including Hephaestion and Bagoas. Bagoas was a young boy offered to Alexander as a gift by Darius of Persia's general after Darius was defeated by Alexander.

09-10-2011 09:22PM

Greece, hellas on earth!

Batsy · 09-10-2011 09:24PM

4leto wrote: »

Then how about Cain and Able.

Adam and Eve had daughters as well.

woodoo · 09-10-2011 09:25PM

squod wrote: »

No one cares.

Who are you speaking for?

Shouldn't that read - I don't care.

squod · 09-10-2011 09:27PM

Shoulda got one of these before I read that.

Batsy wrote: »

The most widespread form of same-sex sexual relations in ancient Greece was between adult men and pubescent or adolescent boys. The Greek word "paiderastia" means "boy love".

It was the duty of the adult man to court the boy who struck his fancy, and it was viewed as socially appropriate for the younger man to withhold for a while before capitulating to his mentor's desires. This waiting period allowed the boy to ensure that his suitor was not merely interested in him for sexual purposes but felt a genuine emotional affection for him and was interested in assuming the mentor role assigned to him in the pederastic paradigm.

The age limit for pederasty in ancient Greece seems to encompass, at the minimum end, boys of twelve years of age. To love a boy below the age of twelve was considered inappropriate, but no evidence exists of any legal penalties attached to this sort of practice. Traditionally, a pederastic relationship could continue until the widespread growth of the boy's body hair, when he is considered a man. Thus, the age limit for the younger member of a pederastic relationship seems to have extended from 12 to about 17 years of age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece

Alexander the Great himself had several male lovers, including Hephaestion and Bagoas. Bagoas was a young boy offered to Alexander as a gift by Darius of Persia's general after Darius was defeated by Alexander.

squod · 09-10-2011 09:27PM

woodoo wrote: »

Who are you speaking for?

No-one

woodoo wrote: »

Shouldn't that read - I don't care.

No

x in the city · 09-10-2011 09:29PM

pebbles21 wrote: »

LOL........Fail in history much??

well in fairness the great greek philosophers or great gods are a fairly pathetic excuse for a bail out of billions. :rolleyes:

dj jarvis · 09-10-2011 09:32PM

x in the city wrote: »

Ireland has some history, great authors,poets, song writers, craic agus ceoil.

greece is the cradle of democracy , also had the greats like Aristotle , plato and homer to name but 3 , they also have poets and musicians that are world famous and the Greeks know how to have the craic agus ceoil
just because you don't know any of this, does not mean they don't have it in bucket loads

Greece is just...like a place people go for a tan.

wrong again , people YOU know may go just for tans - **** loads more than that in Greece - they are just lucky they don't have our weather - so your point is?

and they have no jobs... at all.
yes they do , that is the problem , public sector is not having a job ?
and in fairness they have MUCH more heavy industry and shipping than we ever will

why should anyone else bail them out.
did you ever ask yourself why we were bailed out and did we deserve it?
you obliviously think the Irish are better than the Greeks , just not the case - they just borrowed more than we did - we were lucky the crash came when it did because we were heading that direction at high speed

Ireland has lots of jobs, just that companies are not hiring and keeping what personnel they have..
14% unemployment is not lots of jobs - i think we have the second highest unemployment rate in the EU , we are not much better off than the Greeks

Its nuts to give them money, whatever about italy, which is a vastly more developed and modern country.

no - it was nuts that German and french banks gave a socialist led and union run country so much money - unsecured and such a low interest rate
what did they think would happen - so who is stupid ??

your post is total **** - please think before you post
your post was close to racism and clearly you know NOTHING about Greece,
so you have that attitude against a country you know nothing about??
speaks volumes about you

(have no idea why the post looks like that - un highlighted text is my response to highlighted drivel )

4leto · 09-10-2011 09:34PM

Batsy wrote: »

Adam and Eve had daughters as well.

No they hadn't.

Even if they did what you suggest is even more wrong.

4leto · 09-10-2011 09:35PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

no - it was nuts that German and french banks gave a socialist led and union run country so much money - unsecured and such a low interest rate
what did they think would happen - so who is stupid ??

your post is total **** - please think before you post
your post was close to racism and clearly you know NOTHING about Greece,
so you have that attitude against a country you know nothing about??
speaks volumes about you

I was just going to leave it alone, but+1

saywhatyousee · 09-10-2011 09:38PM

4leto wrote: »

Fkucen hell that is a lot of money. 500 billion for 11 million people, that is a lot.

But ours is i think 150 billion for 3 and half million people. So we are in no better position.

Population of Ireland is 4.5 million.And where are you pulling the figure of 150 billion out of?

Dotrel · 09-10-2011 09:39PM

Carpenter wrote: »

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d35_1318165203

Now that's a few euro

Greece's debt is unpalatable! :mad:

Batsy · 09-10-2011 09:40PM

4leto wrote: »

No they hadn't.

They certainly did.

4leto · 10-10-2011 03:25AM

saywhatyousee wrote: »

Population of Ireland is 4.5 million.And where are you pulling the figure of 150 billion out of?

Apologies its an eye watering 115 billion only as for our pop I dont think so, the whole of ireland has 4.5

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.financedublin.com%2Fdebtclock.php&ei=u1aSTu3ECMmq8AOAhown&usg=AFQjCNFhpwSHUx2bzz9ORKKn5Rq8cc0KSw

AlmightyCushion · 10-10-2011 03:34AM

4leto wrote: »

Apologies its an eye watering 115 billion only as for our pop I dont think so, the whole of ireland has 4.5

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.financedublin.com%2Fdebtclock.php&ei=u1aSTu3ECMmq8AOAhown&usg=AFQjCNFhpwSHUx2bzz9ORKKn5Rq8cc0KSw

The whole island has a population of over 6 million. Our population is currently just over 4.5 million.

4leto · 10-10-2011 03:37AM

Batsy wrote: »

They certainly did.

OK they may have
I am not going into the Freudian area of whom you wish or want to rub your mickey against for friction.

But rest assured the Greeks or any other culture DID not invent gay sex.

4leto · 10-10-2011 03:40AM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The whole island has a population of over 6 million. Our population is currently just over 4.5 million.

OK we still have a debt level of Greece

We are no better and a big problem to the germans.

Cop on and embrace austerity, we are fkuced.

AlmightyCushion · 10-10-2011 03:47AM

4leto wrote: »

OK we still have a debt level of Greece

We are no better and a big problem to the germans.

Cop on and embrace austerity, we are fkuced.

Not in terms of debt as a percentage of GDP we aren't. I do agree we need to get our shít together and start making serious cuts though. Also, I think the whole greek inventing gayness may be a joke.

M5 · 10-10-2011 03:53AM

check out the US's problems, dwarfs the sums Greece owes but obv they have a slightly larger economy
http://usdebt.kleptocracy.us/

4leto · 10-10-2011 10:38AM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Not in terms of debt as a percentage of GDP we aren't. I do agree we need to get our shít together and start making serious cuts though. Also, I think the whole greek inventing gayness may be a joke.

Irelands percentage debt to GDP is the fourth worse in the world Greece is 12.7 while we are 12.2% yes that is just marginally better then Greece. But the difference is not worth considering.

So its as I said earlier we are in no position to judge or preach to Greece.

ringadingding · 10-10-2011 10:50AM

4leto wrote: »

Irelands percentage debt to GDP is the fourth worse in the world Greece is 12.7 while we are 12.2% yes that is just marginally better then Greece. But the difference is not worth considering.

So its as I said earlier we are in no position to judge or preach to Greece.

Yeah this thread stinks of pot kettle black glasshouses stones throwing , all that jazz

Wibbs · 10-10-2011 11:31AM

4leto wrote: »

So its as I said earlier we are in no position to judge or preach to Greece.

In a couple of ways we're different. Number one "our" debts were accrued by banks, most of which were speculation and gambling "investments" that failed. Then that utter fcuking moron Lenihan saddled every single one of us with said banking debts. Sure many went mad on leveraging upper management lifestyles on shop floor wages, but that lot was nowhere near the 100 billion plus we're all going to be paying back for a generation. Nice one for the speculators. Take a gamble on a horse, it drops dead in the final furlong and the bookie pays you anyway? Mad and it makes me fcuking mad with it.

In Greece the government ran up huge debts feathering the nests of the electorate and PS, an electorate that make tax evasion a national fcuking sport. I'm not talking about a sparks doing a nixer for 50 quid, it goes through Greek society like words in a stick of rock. Try paying a professional by credit card in Athens. Good luck with that. Cash is king and has been for years. Half of doctors surveyed in established well off practices claimed earnings of less than 30,000 a year, some hammerheads claimed they were on minimum wage so they weren't taxable at all. These are doctors FFS. Swimming pools attract a tax and in Athens 300 people(3/4 of whom weren't Greek) declared they had a pool. How many pools are in Athens? Nearly seventeen fcuking thousand.

The Greek state with the collusion of it's people racked up a huge credit card bill and now don't want to pay and are crying "wah wah" to the EU/IMF. The greeks even cooked the books to get approved for this credit card/into the Euro in the first bloody place. Greece and the Greeks are very different to Ireland and the Irish. There is fcuk all comparison folks. Shíte we're even willing to pay off debts we didn't even accrue in the first place. So please people, less of this Irish attitude of "let's whip ourselves sure who are we to judge" ballsology. Fcuk that and the horse it rode in on.

I'd set them adrift myself. Throw them out of the Euro and rather than support them, support countries that are vulnerable to Grecian debt.

Wibbs · 10-10-2011 12:06PM

PS I'd put it broadly thus; if Ireland was a person, they would be someone with a manageable enough bank debt, struggling to also pay off the mortgage of the bank manager living in a huge house down the road who has now decided it's not their fault, so won't pay, yet dopes we are we'll cover their repayments.

Greece would be a spendthrift that falsified their earnings to get a mortgage in the first place, re mortgaged time and time again to fund their lifestyle lying to different banks, while paying bugger all tax who have now decided it's not their fault, so won't pay. The Irish are in debt paying off the gambles of speculators, the Greeks are the speculators. Big bloody difference.

4leto · 10-10-2011 12:19PM

Our position is not that different we still have a massive debt per GDP which either way how you describe that debt we still have to pay it back, so it still is 12.2% of GDP.

THe IMF had to bail us out and may have to again, at the moment the world is focused on Greece but the worlds attention will look towards us again. Things here are bad, but I concede our debt is affordable with serious cut backs and if we maintain current growth (which is good but only maintainable if the world economy behaves itself, which is not looking good at the moment).

As for Greece the whole social order and contract is breaking down, there is genuine real hardship there and their only recourse is out of the EU, I would not be surprised if they got another Junta.

Wibbs · 10-10-2011 12:35PM

4leto wrote: »

Our position is not that different we still have a massive debt per GDP which either way how you describe that debt we still have to pay it back, so it still is 12.2% of GDP.

My point is how we have ended up in that position is very different and that's the real pisser in all this. Describing the nature of that debt is important. Especially when you have people coming on here and berating the Irish people, the vast majority of whom didn't make up our national debt. So yea contrary to you and some others positions on this thread we can look at judge and preach to Greece. We've been locked into paying off for the most part other peoples debts for at least a generation and they're the ones getting pissy in the streets about debts they accrued?

There's a clear distinction between our two states and we should be the ones on the streets clamouring for blood and telling the gambler/speculators to fcuk right off and take a haircut. I'll happily pay for the majority fellow Irish man or woman, but not some twat in NAMA with his house and car in his over max factored unreasonably blonde wife's name and defo not some foreign bank speculator who judged it wrong. Why should we pay their gambling debts?

In any event, we're not the problem at the moment IMHO. Again IMHO, forget Greece and look to Portugal. They're the straw that will break the Eurozone camels back. They look really really shaky and the eye has gone off them at the moment, but if they fail, then Spain who has huge involvement in them will follow. Spain's not looking to sweet now. Their unemployment figures are bad, but it's the demographic of those figures that's much more worrying. Almost half of all 20 to 30 year olds are jobless. That's a really bad sign. If they go, then the Germans/French/rest of us won't have a snowballs chance in hell of saving the Euro. Not by conventional means anyway.

4leto · 10-10-2011 12:52PM

Wibbs wrote: »

My point is how we have ended up in that position is very different and that's the real pisser in all this. Describing the nature of that debt is important. Especially when you have people coming on here and berating the Irish people, the vast majority of whom didn't make up our national debt. So yea contrary to you and some others positions on this thread we can look at judge and preach to Greece. We've been locked into paying off for the most part other peoples debts for at least a generation and they're the ones getting pissy in the streets about debts they accrued?

There's a clear distinction between our two states and we should be the ones on the streets clamouring for blood and telling the gambler/speculators to fcuk right off and take a haircut. I'll happily pay for the majority fellow Irish man or woman, but not some twat in NAMA with his house and car in his over max factored unreasonably blonde wife's name and defo not some foreign bank speculator who judged it wrong. Why should we pay their gambling debts?

In any event, we're not the problem at the moment IMHO. Again IMHO, forget Greece and look to Portugal. They're the straw that will break the Eurozone camels back. They look really really shaky and the eye has gone off them at the moment, but if they fail, then Spain who has huge involvement in them will follow. Spain's not looking to sweet now. Their unemployment figures are bad, but it's the demographic of those figures that's much more worrying. Almost half of all 20 to 30 year olds are jobless. That's a really bad sign. If they go, then the Germans/French/rest of us won't have a snowballs chance in hell of saving the Euro. Not by conventional means anyway.

Why should we indeed, because that is our position, we are here, you could announce to the German French banks and pension funds Fukc yeahs, we are not paying and then lets see what happens.

As for how we got here, that's irrelevant really, personally how did I accrue my debts, that doesn't really matter all I know is I have to pay them. Its the same with Ireland.

So no we are not in a position to judge as is any of the other scarily growing acronym of the PIGS, I suppose you could add a B, and some would say an F to it as well.

I did say at current conditions our debt is affordable, but at current conditions, while Greece's debt is not affordable and never will be.

Greece ?????????

Comments