How would you feel if your child was gay?

Bannasidhe · 08-10-2011 10:10PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Its not the thought of my boy not giving me grandchildren that bothers me its the thought of him doing - in my mind - unnatural sex acts with another man that would dissapoint & disgust me!!

Do you intend to spend much time imagining your children having sex?

Siuin · 08-10-2011 10:13PM

Plautus wrote: »

Alright, well the next stage of the argument is that I think that, rationally, we should try and accept our children unconditionally in so far as is possible (I mean, you obviously punish your child for wrong-doing).

This would mean that I don't mind my son having a high-pitched voice or my daughter preferring to watch Top Gear. This stuff, I contend, is such small potatoes that you shouldn't allow it to jeopardise your relationship with the child and you should re-assess your priorities if these are issues.

Finally, from the perspective of a guy who was a gay child - I'd prefer my parent's support and acceptance of me, not their pity. There's a difference between worrying for a child because the world can be nasty and homophobic and being disappointed because the child is gay and must face this world.

No child wants to be a disappointment, least of all because of something they can't change.

Unconditional love is the goal, of course, but most parents have certain expectations of how their child's life will pan out, and for many, their child coming out as being gay can throw a spanner in the works. I know for my aunt and uncle, it took a great deal of mental readjustment for them to be able to cope with the fact that they won't have a daughter in law, won't have biological grandchildren without some kind of third party intervention, and (given the fact that when he came out, he began to be very camp) to relate to his new more 'flamboyant' personality.

Siuin · 08-10-2011 10:15PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

NO. They do not. They may choose to - but they do not have to.

they need to take an alternative route if they want kids- I thought this would be implied, given the context, but it seems some people are hyper sensitive when it comes to these kinds of things...

Crea · 08-10-2011 10:17PM

I've 2 boys and 1 girl and I absolutely wouldn't disappointed in them if they were gay. I'd worry about them in case they experienced any bullying or discrimination. But what I would wish for them in life wouldn't change ie: that they would be happy, do a job they love and find someone who loves them completely and treats them well. Do I want them to have children? Only if that is what they want for themselves - having grandchildren isn't a huge priority for me.

oranbhoy67 · 08-10-2011 10:18PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Do you intend to spend much time imagining your children having sex?

Not at all. im giving a straight answer to a straight question on how i feel on such a topic.. i could lie & say " oh it makes no diffrence to me he`ll always be my kid etc etc"... truth is .. that as a parent you want your child to follow in the same path as you & as human beings we are put here on earth to mate with the opposite sex & reproduce if possible in a normal healthy sexual relationship & thats what i want for my child.

Plautus · 08-10-2011 10:19PM

Siuin, I can completely understand why it is was difficult for them, and how their reaction was emotional and how they have expectations. My point is that these expectations are not good to have where that leads us to view our child as a 'disappointment' for something that is merely the child living for themselves and achieving fulfilment. If that means that your cousin was 'flamboyant' then honestly, I think that needs to be given very little weight against his happiness.

To put it in a less emotive context, I'd similarly question the motives of parents who were disappointed that their son or daughter didn't become a doctor of medicine, and when that son or daughter went on to live a very happy life.

they need to take an alternative route if they want kids- I thought this would be implied, given the context, but it seems some people are hyper sensitive when it comes to these kinds of things...

Gay people can have biological children. You'd have to be similarly disappointed if your straight children conceived grandchildren via IVF (or adopted) to be consistent here.

Bannasidhe · 08-10-2011 10:21PM

Siuin wrote: »

they need to take an alternative route if they want kids- I thought this would be implied, given the context, but it seems some people are hyper sensitive when it comes to these kinds of things...

Seriously - I'm not being sensitive. There is no physical or medical reason a gay man and a lesbian cannot conceive through sexual intercourse. honest! Oscar Wilde had children with his wife to name but one.
Many choose to go the donor route (where the donor my be anonymous or very active in the child's life depending on the agreements put in place) for various reasons including unwillingness to have sexual intercourse with a member of the opposite gender.

But inability to conceive via intercourse can affect anyone - regardless of sexual orientation.

4leto · 08-10-2011 10:21PM

I have changed my mind on this, at first I would have been critical about parents who would feel devastated about finding out there child was gay.

I genuinely believe there is nothing wrong or even odd about being gay and I don't see any homophobia in this thread. But I do understand why a parent would want their child to be in the majority and have as much as possible a "normal" conventional life.

Also there is a leap in cultural understanding straight parents initially will not understand what it is to be gay, that takes understanding and time. So yes there is a bridge to cross.

But I was on another gay site and you get posters talking about coming out to their parents and being rejected, shown the door, disowned, that is devastating to everyone.

So a little understanding from both sides of this debate will go along way.

Daftendirekt · 08-10-2011 10:22PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Not at all. im giving a straight answer to a straight question on how i feel on such a topic.. i could lie & say " oh it makes no diffrence to me he`ll always be my kid etc etc" truth is as a parent you want your child to follow in the same path as you & as human beings we are put here on earth to mate with the opposites sex & reproduce if possible in a normal healthy sexual relationship & thats what i want for my child.

I think you mean to say you want your child to follow the same path as you. Plenty of parents are happy to see their children find their own way in life.

Also, what's the deal with so many people wanting grandchildren? It isn't something you get to have a say in, so why worry about it?

Bannasidhe · 08-10-2011 10:23PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Not at all. im giving a straight answer to a straight question on how i feel on such a topic.. i could lie & say " oh it makes no diffrence to me he`ll always be my kid etc etc"... truth is .. that as a parent you want your child to follow in the same path as you & as human beings we are put here on earth to mate with the opposite sex & reproduce if possible in a normal healthy sexual relationship & thats what i want for my child.

Then by that reasoning as a parent I would have wanted my son to be gay...

Plautus · 08-10-2011 10:29PM

4leto wrote: »

I have changed my mind on this, at first I would have been critical about parents who would feel devastated about finding out there child was gay.

I genuinely believe there is nothing wrong or even odd about being gay and I don't see any homophobia in this thread. But I do understand why a parent would want their child to be in the majority and have as much as possible a "normal" conventional life.

Also there is a leap in cultural understanding straight parents initially will not understand what it is to be gay, that takes understanding and time. So yes there is a bridge to cross.

But I was on another gay site and you get posters talking about coming out to their parents and being rejected, shown the door, disowned, that is devastating to everyone.

So a little understanding from both sides of this debate will go along way.

I would say that the child who is gay can do very little to remedy his or her parents' disappointment. So the ball's in the parents' court, moreso than child's, when they were the ones who decided to have the child in the first place.

Indeed, I can understand why disappointment arises. I just don't think it's a very healthy or useful emotion to hold onto and it certainly shouldn't lead to any circumstance where a child denies their sexuality to ameliorate this disappointment.

oranbhoy67 · 08-10-2011 10:29PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Then by that reasoning as a parent I would have wanted my son to be gay...

Well thats up to you.. thats your life & i wouldnt tell you how to live it... neither for that matter would i my sons when hes old enough he will have to make his own choices.. i will help guide him & thats all i can do.. i wouldnt disown him but im not going to lie & say i wouldnt be massivley dissapointed... because i would & that would just be my natural feeling & opinon.. i suupose the same i would be if he made other lifestyle choices which i myself dont do .. such as taking drugs etc

Plautus · 08-10-2011 10:33PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Well thats up to you.. thats your life & i wouldnt tell you how to live it... neither for that matter would i my sons when hes old enough he will have to make his own choices.. i will help guide him & thats all i can do.. i wouldnt disown him but im not going to lie & say i wouldnt be massivley dissapointed... because i would & that would just be my natural feeling & opinon.. i suupose the same i would be if he made other lifestyle choices which i myself dont do .. such as taking drugs etc

I'm afraid all that I can tell you is that you may have to think more deeply about this issue, rather than equating homosexuality with a decision made to abuse illegal substances, if a child of yours ever came out to you.

Bannasidhe · 08-10-2011 10:33PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Well thats up to you.. thats your life & i wouldnt tell you how to live it... neither for that matter would i my sons when hes old enough he will have to make his own choices.. i will help guide him & thats all i can do.. i wouldnt disown him but im not going to lie & say i wouldnt be massivley dissapointed... because i would & that would just be my natural feeling & opinon.. i suupose the same i would be if he made other lifestyle choices which i myself dont do .. such as taking drugs etc

Fair enough...I mean he could become a Mormon like.

Ye wouldn't even be able to go for a pint then....

EGAR · 08-10-2011 10:36PM

Your child is not your mirror image, nor is it your child's duty to live your dreams.

His/her life - all a parent can do is being supportive and understanding.

My take on the whole gay thing

.

Siuin · 08-10-2011 10:39PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Seriously - I'm not being sensitive. There is no physical or medical reason a gay man and a lesbian cannot conceive through sexual intercourse. honest! Oscar Wilde had children with his wife to name but one.
Many choose to go the donor route (where the donor my be anonymous or very active in the child's life depending on the agreements put in place) for various reasons including unwillingness to have sexual intercourse with a member of the opposite gender.

But inability to conceive via intercourse can affect anyone - regardless of sexual orientation.

Obviously they can force themselves to have sex with someone of whom they are not sexually attracted to. Whatever about inviting a third party into the relationship, in a case such as Wilde's, I simply find it sad that he would mislead a woman who obviously had aspirations of a healthy sex life with a heterosexual husband, when he was gay and later cheated on her with a 17 year old boy while she was pregnant. Shame on anyone who thinks that deception is an 'acceptable route' for having kids.

Plautus wrote: »

Siuin, I can completely understand why it is was difficult for them, and how their reaction was emotional and how they have expectations. My point is that these expectations are not good to have where that leads us to view our child as a 'disappointment' for something that is merely the child living for themselves and achieving fulfilment. If that means that your cousin was 'flamboyant' then honestly, I think that needs to be given very little weight against his happiness.

To put it in a less emotive context, I'd similarly question the motives of parents who were disappointed that their son or daughter didn't become a doctor of medicine, and when that son or daughter went on to live a very happy life.

Gay people can have biological children. You'd have to be similarly disappointed if your straight children conceived grandchildren via IVF (or adopted) to be consistent here.

If your kids are medically unable to have children, it is a tragedy, and still a regretful one. Many parents are disappointed when their offspring can't have children of their own because it is something natural that a heterosexual couple should be able to conceive a child together, however a straight couple's inability to have kids doesn't have all the added stigmas as a gay couple.

Disappointment happens when things don't go 'according to plan', whatever their expectations may have been- it doesn't mean that the kids will never be accepted, but I do think parents should be allowed to grieve for the child and experiences they thought they would have with their son or daughter as a straight person, and shouldn't simply be labelled bigots for not immediately declaring that it didn't bother them in the slightest.

Plautus · 08-10-2011 10:47PM

I didn't use the word 'bigot' Siuin. I don't think you are. My point simply has been that if you have rigid expectations for you child, you will be repeatedly disappointed and lamenting what did not and cannot happen instead of enjoying what can or does happen. This, to me, is a painful and futile emotional response. Why not look forward to a gay child's civil partnership, or their own children (your grand-children) however those children come into the extended family's life? Is it so necessary to your happiness that your genetic material is in your grandchildren? It still can be!

I think it is a tremendous source of confidence to a child that their parent only wants them carve their own path in life. Acceptance, I guess, means to overcome disappointment and I would prefer not to think of my life as something which disappointed my parents for the rest of their lives. If you think about it, isn't being so 'disappointed' something of an unfortunate emotional burden to place on children who are gay?

4leto · 08-10-2011 10:51PM

Plautus wrote: »

I would say that the child who is gay can do very little to remedy his or her parents' disappointment. So the ball's in the parents' court, moreso than child's, when they were the ones who decided to have the child in the first place.

Indeed, I can understand why disappointment arises. I just don't think it's a very healthy or useful emotion to hold onto and it certainly shouldn't lead to any circumstance where a child denies their sexuality to ameliorate this disappointment.

In most the stories I heard they did let it go and they understood and it was a positive experience. Just some didn't.

There are actual groups which parents who have gay children can go to for advice and support.

Like it was illegal in Ireland right up to the 80s, so imagine those parents trying to understand.

And you are right denying your sexuality can lead to other problems which are coupled with self loathing. Its probably why suicide rates are higher among gay teens.

Bannasidhe · 08-10-2011 10:51PM

Siuin wrote: »

Obviously they can force themselves to have sex with someone of whom they are not sexually attracted to. Whatever about inviting a third party into the relationship, in a case such as Wilde's, I simply find it sad that he would mislead a woman who obviously had aspirations of a healthy sex life with a heterosexual husband, when he was gay and later cheated on her with a 17 year old boy while she was pregnant. Shame on anyone who thinks that deception is an 'acceptable route' for having kids.

If your kids are medically unable to have children, it is a tragedy, and still a regretful one. Many parents are disappointed when their offspring can't have children of their own because it is something natural that a heterosexual couple should be able to conceive a child together, however a straight couple's inability to have kids doesn't have all the added stigmas as a gay couple.

Disappointment happens when things don't go 'according to plan', whatever their expectations may have been- it doesn't mean that the kids will never be accepted, but I do think parents should be allowed to grieve for the child and experiences they thought they would have with their son or daughter as a straight person, and shouldn't simply be labelled bigots for not immediately declaring that it didn't bother them in the slightest.

I was discussing the mechanics - not Wilde's morals which had no part to play in the conception of his children.

Siuin · 08-10-2011 10:54PM

Plautus wrote: »

I didn't use the word 'bigot' Siuin.

Never said you did

Plautus wrote: »

I don't think you are. My point simply has been that if you have rigid expectations for you child, you will be repeatedly disappointed and lamenting what did not and cannot happen instead of enjoying what can or does happen. This, to me, is a painful and futile emotional response.

I think it is a tremendous source of confidence to a child that they their parent only wants them carve their own path in life. Acceptance, I guess, means to overcome disappointment and I would prefer not to think of my life as something which disappointed my parents for the rest of their lives. If you think about it, isn't being so 'disappointed' something of an unfortunate emotional burden to place on children who are gay?

I think that most parents, to greater or lesser degrees, have expectations of their kids- that they'd go to college, get a job, get married, have their own families- things can intervene, but it doesn't stop the sense of disappointment. Life isn't fair, and almost everyone at some stage in their life will struggle to have others accept them as they are and to stay true to their identities.

Solair · 08-10-2011 10:54PM

Just don't do this, there's going overboard

Catherine Tate sketch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifUQq5p5i2g

Before anyone's offended, bear in mind she's playing with stereotypes and I think she's making a bit of a point about the ridiculousness of the whole assumption that gay guys are somehow going to be camp and want to discuss fashion all the time

Siuin · 08-10-2011 10:57PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I was discussing the mechanics - not Wilde's morals which had no part to play in the conception of his children.

You chose to use the example of a gay man who had children by deceiving a woman into believing he was heterosexual- I'm well aware that men and woman can have children- but if you meant something else other than lying to a member of the opposite sex, you should have chosen a different example.

Aishae · 08-10-2011 10:59PM

To sum it up - many say they wouldn't bothered and others say 'I've no problem with gay people...... But not my offspring'

Me - it wouldn't matter. I abhor the suggestion that being gay is like a defect or a let down.

Plautus · 08-10-2011 10:59PM

Life isn't fair, and almost everyone at some stage in their life will struggle to have others accept them as they are and to stay true to their identities.

Indeed! I wouldn't disagree, and so I think parents should do everything to overcome their personal disappointment by way of accepting their child as they are and that the child is more important than a vision of a white wedding. I'm not saying it's an 'invalid' emotional experience to have - just that it's unfair to hold onto this disappointment indefinitely. I speak for myself especially here: I don't want to be a continuous disappointment to you (if you were my parent) when I can't do anything to help it. You're setting me a test I can't pass. And my sexuality is an absolutely inherent part of who I am.

reeta · 08-10-2011 11:02PM

JaxxYChicK wrote: »

The same way I'd feel if he/she wasn't gay?

Thats a stupid reply..

Bannasidhe · 08-10-2011 11:04PM

Siuin wrote: »

You chose to use the example of a gay man who had children by deceiving a woman into believing he was heterosexual- I'm well aware that men and woman can have children- but if you meant something else other than lying to a member of the opposite sex, you should have chosen a different example.

Possible - but you were insisting lesbians and gay men have to use an alternative method of concept. The fact remains - this is not true.

Plautus · 08-10-2011 11:08PM

reeta wrote: »

Thats a stupid reply..

Seems straightforward to me: sexuality doesn't matter to the poster. Does it to you? If so, that means you disagree with each other. What's stupid here?

Daftendirekt · 08-10-2011 11:09PM

reeta wrote: »

Thats a stupid reply..

Why?

ascanbe · 08-10-2011 11:18PM

Jackson Dirty Sound wrote: »

OP most people here are not rearing a family and looking forward to being a grand parent someday, and a lot will post up some liberal populist crap.. Me, I'll say it like it is - I'd be devastated.. Sure there are worst things which a child can be, and I do believe its not a life choice unless they started acting all camp & queer about the whole thing.

But at the end of the day we're family and I'm here to support my children throught thick and thin.

But yes, I'd be devasted.

'Say it like it is' for you, you mean.
Are you suggesting that anyone who expresses an opinion on the subject that doesn't tally with yours is being dishonest/for some reason in thrall to 'spouting liberal populist crap'?
I'll write it like it is, for me: that's just f*cking stupid.

TylerIE · 08-10-2011 11:25PM

hondasam wrote: »

I would not be very happy if my child was gay. I would learn to accept it but would never be happy about it.

hondasam wrote: »

easy to say when you don't have a kid.

hondasam wrote: »

This is not about bullying. I answered the question I would not be happy if my child was gay.I would learn to accept it.

You promote suicide charities... your 1life banner and your link to console...

Do you have any idea how many gay teens die every year by suicide... Fear of coming out, fear of rejection, fear of being a disappointment, and worse still actual rejection - by family, friends, society.

I used to think the Catholic Church was bad with "Love the Sinner not the sin" - but your signature stinks of hypocrisy.

Im glad your honest about your opinion, but you need to seriously re consider. And I recognise you wouldnt reject them outright, but the disappointment and hurt that parents express is often almost as big a problem for many gay youth.

You would be disappointed... and "come to accept" it. Do you love your children if they are straight, but not if they are gay?

Only two weeks ago a 14 year old teen - Jamey Rodemeyer - died by suicide in the US.

Mary Griffith used to want her son to change. She felt he was condemned to eternal damnation. Now shed be delighted to have her son, Bobby, back - instead he jumped of a freeway bridge and died. Now shes a campaigner who encourages parents to accept their kids regardless. Her not liking it lost her son, and shes the first to admit it.

Its not just the states - Im personally aware of three gay teens who died by suicide in Ireland last year - two after horrendous ongoing bullying, another after his boyfriend died - but nobody knew it was his boyfriend as they were on the same football team and considered macho etc and they feared rejection and abuse from their families, friends, team mates.

I also know many others who have turned to drink, cocaine and ecstasy with persistent virtual girlfriends in order to keep the daddy and mammy happy.

A parents role is to love and support their children. < Note the full stop. Unconditional love.

Yes things are often more difficult for LGBT youths, and this video is a tribute to 250 people, including Jamey, who died due to their sexuality. Most of the names featured died by suicide. Parental unconditional acceptance would help a lot - not disappointment, and a coming round period.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVyugde89W0

How would you feel if your child was gay?

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