How would you feel if your child was gay?

Solair · 08-10-2011 08:42PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Nobody would dare bat an eyelid in any Cork venue- look what happened in the Old Oak!

True enough, just proves the point. Quite a gay-friendly city.

Plautus · 08-10-2011 08:46PM

oldyouth wrote: »

I think a lot of posters here who say they wouldn't mind if a child was gay are very aspirational of their true feelings. I think every parent wants the best for their children but also want a bit of reward for themselves. I love my kids to bits but I would be disappointed if they were gay. Not disappointed IN my kids but I don't think it is an easy passage through life

Again, we're not going to be able to have any kind of rational discussion if people make the assumption that everyone else is speaking in bad faith with no basis for it.

'Look at all these people disagreeing - that's uncomfortable - I'll assume they actually agree with me 'deep down' (TM). Problem solved.'

Fine, if you want to believe that then all of this is pointless. And I'll suggest that yours is the clear case of wishful thinking.

Bannasidhe · 08-10-2011 08:51PM

Siuin wrote: »

Our relationship

So your child should conform to a particular way of looking/acting because it would make you uncomfortable? Is that not all about you and not at all about them?

Would it be -

'sorry son, you are too like Julian Clary, Graham Norton, John Inman, Larry Greyson and Freddy Mercury for me so you have to but down that colour chart, take the drill off your sister and butch it up as it makes things difficult for me.'

or

'Take off those jeans and that shirt, stop putting up shelves and changing the oil in the car and get into that dress immediately like a proper girl as you are making things difficult for me!'

So, it would be very conditional love - conform to the stereotypes of what a man and a woman should be - or else.

BTW - Butch woman does not = lesbian and camp man does not = gay.

oldyouth · 08-10-2011 08:54PM

Plautus wrote: »

Again, we're not going to be able to have any kind of rational discussion if people make the assumption that everyone else is speaking in bad faith with no basis for it.

'Look at all these people disagreeing - that's uncomfortable - I'll assume they actually agree with me 'deep down' (TM). Problem solved.'

Fine, if you want to believe that then all of this is pointless. And I'll suggest that yours is the clear case of wishful thinking.

Sorry, I can't follow what you mean. Not having a dig, just not able to see your point of view

hondasam · 08-10-2011 08:56PM

wonderfulname wrote: »

Does anybody else find this stance amusing? Considering that when people write extreme racist or homophobic commentary in other threads it is invariably said that "they wouldn't say that in real life, it's just the freedom of anonymity on the internet". So which one is it? Does the internet increase the number of people vocalising unpopular views, or the number pandering to the masses? Or is it just that it removes you from the comfort of your real life social circle, therefore exposing you to opinions you rarely or never hear, meaning the issues lie with the observer, not the observed? So everybody is telling the truth, it's just not the truth anyone is used to hearing?.

I'm not sure why you quoted me to write that post, am I missing something?

No It's not, loads of people would prefer their kids were straight because they perceive it to be easier on the child, not because they have a nimby attitude to sexuality

I dunno if I agree with this statement.

4leto · 08-10-2011 08:57PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So your child should conform to a particular way of looking/acting because it would make you uncomfortable? Is that not all about you and not at all about them?

Would it be -

'sorry son, you are too like Julian Clary, Graham Norton, John Inman, Larry Greyson and Freddy Mercury for me so you have to but down that colour chart, take the drill off your sister and butch it up as it makes things difficult for me.'

or

'Take off those jeans and that shirt, stop putting up shelves and changing the oil in the car and get into that dress immediately like a proper girl as you are making things difficult for me!'

So, it would be very conditional love - conform to the stereotypes of what a man and a woman should be - or else.

BTW - Butch woman does not = lesbian and camp man does not = gay.

A while ago a guy told me he suspects his daughter is gay, she is absolutely fem a knock out as well deffo not butch.

He absolutely doesn't care, as long as she is happy he said.

Plautus · 08-10-2011 08:57PM

oldyouth wrote: »

Sorry, I can't follow what you mean. Not having a dig, just not able to see your point of view

You don't have any reason to say that any individual poster is not telling the truth when they say they have zero problems with their children (should they have any) being gay.

You'll have to accept that they are speaking their true feelings. You'll have to accept that they aren't all lying for the sake of appearances and secretly, deep down, in agreement with you. You have no basis to say so. It would be a huge waste of time if I said something on Boards that wasn't my own opinion. Same goes for most.

Clearly a lot of people do not have a problem, but there's been a strange sort of denialism of even that much in this thread! Perhaps because people really are uncomfortable that they are in a minority on this issue so they have to rope the 'majority' in with them.

Siuin · 08-10-2011 09:00PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So your child should conform to a particular way of looking/acting because it would make you uncomfortable? Is that not all about you and not at all about them?

Would it be -

'sorry son, you are too like Julian Clary, Graham Norton, John Inman, Larry Greyson and Freddy Mercury for me so you have to but down that colour chart, take the drill off your sister and butch it up as it makes things difficult for me.'

or

'Take off those jeans and that shirt, stop putting up shelves and changing the oil in the car and get into that dress immediately like a proper girl as you are making things difficult for me!'

So, it would be very conditional love - conform to the stereotypes of what a man and a woman should be - or else.

BTW - Butch woman does not = lesbian and camp man does not = gay.

Gee, sorry- I was under the assumption that the OP wanted our honest answers and not just what the PC police think we should be saying :rolleyes:

He wants to know how WE as parents would feel about it, not the gay kid. This would be my honest reaction, like it or not. I wouldn't try to change the child, but I personally think that it's ridiculous when one sex tries to emulate to the other in terms of men dressing in drag or women shaving off their hair and donning men's clothes. Yes, it's a free world and they can dress how they please, but it would change how I would interact with my child, and I would dislike this aspect of their behaviour, but not them themselves.

And yes, I am aware that butch/camp doesn't NECESSARILY mean gay, and neither does cross dressing, but from personal experience, I've never met a camp straight man and, as for lesbians, I've never encountered one. Unless you count attention-starved college girls 'experimenting' before a group of men in clubs.

Oddjob · 08-10-2011 09:05PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So your child should conform to a particular way of looking/acting because it would make you uncomfortable? Is that not all about you and not at all about them?

Would it be -

'sorry son, you are too like Julian Clary, Graham Norton, John Inman, Larry Greyson and Freddy Mercury for me so you have to but down that colour chart, take the drill off your sister and butch it up as it makes things difficult for me.'

or

'Take off those jeans and that shirt, stop putting up shelves and changing the oil in the car and get into that dress immediately like a proper girl as you are making things difficult for me!'

So, it would be very conditional love - conform to the stereotypes of what a man and a woman should be - or else.

BTW - Butch woman does not = lesbian and camp man does not = gay.

Hang on, hang on, Freddy Mercury was gay?

Plautus · 08-10-2011 09:05PM

I was under the assumption that the OP wanted our honest answers and not just what the PC police think we should be saying

People are arguing with your point of view, not denying that it is your point of view.

Furthermore, who are the PC police? My values would often be slated pejoratively as 'PC', even when there's nothing about them that meets the caricature. There isn't a 'brigade' or a central office of Political Correctness.

oldyouth · 08-10-2011 09:06PM

Plautus wrote: »

You don't have any reason to say that any individual poster is not telling the truth when they say they have zero problems with their children (should they have any) being gay.

You'll have to accept that they are speaking their true feelings. You'll have to accept that they aren't all lying for the sake of appearances and secretly, deep down, in agreement with you. You have no basis to say so. It would be a huge waste of time if I said something on Boards that wasn't my own opinion. Same goes for most.

Clearly a lot of people do not have a problem, but there's been a strange sort of denialism of even that much in this thread! Perhaps because people really are uncomfortable that they are in a minority on this issue so they have to rope the 'majority' in with them.

I think you must be referring to some other posts on this topic cos none of that refers to my comments on the subject

Plautus · 08-10-2011 09:11PM

oldyouth wrote: »

I think you must be referring to some other posts on this topic cos none of that refers to my comments on the subject

I don't think so. You said:

I think a lot of posters here who say they wouldn't mind if a child was gay are very aspirational of their true feelings.

You're suggesting without basis that they have 'true' feelings which they are not revealing. Sorry, but they might just actually be speaking their true feelings. I know I am. They (and I) would not be disappointed with a gay child. And I wouldn't want to be, seeing as I'm gay myself!

Inbox · 08-10-2011 09:15PM

I would be fecking furious.

08-10-2011 09:15PM

willmunny1990 wrote: »

So, how would you feel if your child was gay?

Devo.

starlit · 08-10-2011 09:17PM

I would treat them equally like any other child. A child is a miracle. I wouldn't care if my child is gay, straight or bi! They are my child and what ever they are is the way that they are. I cannot change who they are. I'd love my child regardless of their orientation. They can still have children what ever their orientation. I wouldn't push them to be someone they are not!

I would treat my child who be gay the same as I treat them if they were straight. I'd still love them no matter what! It would be hard not to love your child what ever way they turn out!

I rather a happy child than an unhappy one, they have a better chance in life I feel if they are at least happy within themselves. It would break my hear otherwise.

Siuin · 08-10-2011 09:19PM

Plautus wrote: »

Furthermore, who are the PC police? My values would often be slated pejoratively as 'PC', even when there's nothing about them that meets the caricature. There isn't a 'brigade' or a central office of Political Correctness.

Do you understand what 'pedantic' means? :rolleyes:
I'm talking about those who become hysterical when one takes a view which isn't strictly in line with the 'politically correct' opinion

oldyouth · 08-10-2011 09:24PM

Plautus wrote: »

I don't think so. You said:

You're suggesting without basis that they have 'true' feelings which they are not revealing. Sorry, but they might just actually be speaking their true feelings. I know I am. They (and I) would not be disappointed with a gay child. And I wouldn't want to be, seeing as I'm gay myself!

Ah, I see where you are coming from now. My point is that we all would like to think that it wouldn't make a difference if our child turned out to be gay. We all aspire to be totally liberial in our thoughts. Truth is that the vast majority of parents would prefer if they weren't gay and in fairness, only a parent can comment on that

Plautus · 08-10-2011 09:26PM

Siuin wrote: »

Do you understand what 'pedantic' means? :rolleyes:
I'm talking about those who become hysterical when one takes a view which isn't strictly in line with the 'politically correct' opinion

Yeah, easy up there. There's no central manifesto of PC, there is no such thing as the (singular) 'politically correct opinion'. Just because a view can be categorised as 'PC' that isn't an argument in itself against the view. You have to do more work than that. For example, some arguments are conservative, liberal, marxist, constructivist, realist, capitalist, revisionist, feminist etc. Well done. You've classified arguments. You haven't refuted them.

Nobody's getting hysterical, we're enquiring upon your views and testing them. I believe in equality for gay people. Okay, let's say that's PC. Your next move?

Crann na Beatha · 08-10-2011 09:27PM

This post has been deleted.

Plautus · 08-10-2011 09:33PM

oldyouth wrote: »

Ah, I see where you are coming from now. My point is that we all would like to think that it wouldn't make a difference if our child turned out to be gay. We all aspire to be totally liberial in our thoughts. Truth is that the vast majority of parents would prefer if they weren't gay and in fairness, only a parent can comment on that

Most of us have have been raised by parents, and all of us were somebody's child, and I think that gives us some kind of basis to have input on a question like this!

In the event, what the thread has teased out is that a lot of parents' reactions are understandable and emotional but not necessarily rational.

Bobby Baccala · 08-10-2011 09:38PM

I'd feel my fist on its face.
That'll learn him/her

Siuin · 08-10-2011 09:48PM

Plautus wrote: »

Yeah, easy up there. There's no central manifesto of PC, there is no such thing as the (singular) 'politically correct opinion'. Just because a view can be categorised as 'PC' that isn't an argument in itself against the view. You have to do more work than that. For example, some arguments are conservative, liberal, marxist, constructivist, realist, capitalist, revisionist, feminist etc. Well done. You've classified arguments. You haven't refuted them.

Nobody's getting hysterical, we're enquiring upon your views and testing them. I believe in equality for gay people. Okay, let's say that's PC. Your next move?

Indeed, equality for gay people- they can do what they want, by all means, so long as their actions don't infringe on my life. I never said that gays shouldn't be treated equally, I just personally would be disappointed about the lack of grandchildren, albeit that they would not be able to have them the conventional way. Also, whether they were gay or not, an excessively camp or butch child would irritate me, and I would dislike this aspect of their behaviour.

Voltex · 08-10-2011 09:49PM

I have 3 boys...and if one of them told me he was a bender Id laugh my ass off and take him for a pint!!
To real parents its not and never will be an issue..being a parent gives you vision and feeling beyond anything you could ever imagine!!

OP..hopefully you will get to experience that some day!

Bannasidhe · 08-10-2011 09:51PM

Siuin wrote: »

Gee, sorry- I was under the assumption that the OP wanted our honest answers and not just what the PC police think we should be saying :rolleyes:

He wants to know how WE as parents would feel about it, not the gay kid. This would be my honest reaction, like it or not. I wouldn't try to change the child, but I personally think that it's ridiculous when one sex tries to emulate to the other in terms of men dressing in drag or women shaving off their hair and donning men's clothes. Yes, it's a free world and they can dress how they please, but it would change how I would interact with my child, and I would dislike this aspect of their behaviour, but not them themselves.

And yes, I am aware that butch/camp doesn't NECESSARILY mean gay, and neither does cross dressing, but from personal experience, I've never met a camp straight man and, as for lesbians, I've never encountered one. Unless you count attention-starved college girls 'experimenting' before a group of men in clubs.

If you didn't expect your view to be questioned why post it in a discussion forum?

And pray tell - what exactly are men's clothes?

You have more then likely met many lesbians - they just didn't choose to tell you they were.

I can't imagine why.....

Bannasidhe · 08-10-2011 09:57PM

Siuin wrote: »

Indeed, equality for gay people- they can do what they want, by all means, so long as their actions don't infringe on my life. I never said that gays shouldn't be treated equally, I just personally would be disappointed about the lack of grandchildren, albeit that they would not be able to have them the conventional way. Also, whether they were gay or not, an excessively camp or butch child would irritate me, and I would dislike this aspect of their behaviour.

Well - they would probably dislike your judgemental conservatism so wouldn't ye have a happy family life!

What is the conventional way of having children? - do you mean when sperm is introduced to the vaginal canal via a penis. A sperm fertilises an- egg (or multiples thereof)...egg attaches...cells divide... placenta....blah blah...childbirth via the vaginal canal...slap waaah waaah. Cut cord.

I have some news for you - being lesbian or gay does not prevent this happening...

Siuin · 08-10-2011 10:04PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Well - they would probably dislike your judgemental conservatism so wouldn't ye have a happy family life!

What is the conventional way of having children? - do you mean when sperm is introduced to the vaginal canal via a penis. A sperm fertilises an- egg (or multiples thereof)...egg attaches...cells divide... placenta....blah blah...childbirth via the vaginal canal...slap waaah waaah. Cut cord.

I have some news for you - being lesbian or gay does not prevent this happening...

I wouldn't consider myself conservative in the slightest. Just because I would be disappointed if my child was gay doesn't make me judgemental or archaic. I was raised in such a household, and I can assure you that we have a very happy family life. My cousin came out as being gay, and his parents were disappointed, but you can't help how you feel and they have learned to live with it.

The 'conventional' way of having children is exactly as it sounds- what other way of making babies is the norm in today's society? Children made in any other way (donor sperm etc) are few and far between. So yes. I am aware that being gay doesn't prevent people from having kids, but they do need to take an alternative route.

Plautus · 08-10-2011 10:04PM

Siuin wrote: »

Indeed, equality for gay people- they can do what they want, by all means, so long as their actions don't infringe on my life. I never said that gays shouldn't be treated equally, I just personally would be disappointed about the lack of grandchildren, albeit that they would not be able to have them the conventional way. Also, whether they were gay or not, an excessively camp or butch child would irritate me, and I would dislike this aspect of their behaviour.

Alright, well the next stage of the argument is that I think that, rationally, we should try and accept our children unconditionally in so far as is possible (I mean, you obviously punish your child for wrong-doing).

This would mean that I don't mind my son having a high-pitched voice or my daughter preferring to watch Top Gear. This stuff, I contend, is such small potatoes that you shouldn't allow it to jeopardise your relationship with the child and you should re-assess your priorities if these are issues.

Finally, from the perspective of a guy who was a gay child - I'd prefer my parent's support and acceptance of me, not their pity. There's a difference between worrying for a child because the world can be nasty and homophobic and being disappointed because the child is gay and must face this world.

No child wants to be a disappointment, least of all because of something they can't change.

Bannasidhe · 08-10-2011 10:05PM

Siuin wrote: »

I wouldn't consider myself conservative in the slightest. Just because I would be disappointed if my child was gay doesn't make me judgemental or archaic. I was raised in such a household, and I can assure you that we have a very happy family life. My cousin came out as being gay, and his parents were disappointed, but you can't help how you feel and they have learned to live with it.

The 'conventional' way of having children is exactly as it sounds- what other way of making babies is the norm in today's society? Children made in any other way (donor sperm etc) are few and far between. So yes. I am aware that being gay doesn't prevent people from having kids, but they do need to take an alternative route.

NO. They do not. They may choose to - but they do not have to.

oranbhoy67 · 08-10-2011 10:06PM

Its not the thought of my boy not giving me grandchildren that bothers me its the thought of him doing - in my mind - unnatural sex acts with another man that would dissapoint & disgust me!!

Plautus · 08-10-2011 10:09PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Its not the thought of my boy not giving me grandchildren that bothers me its the thought of him doing - in my mind - unnatural sex acts with another man that would dissapoint & disgust me!!

Look lads, will I go through the rigmarole of explaining naturalistic fallacy here, or will I just consign this one to being a waste of time?

Option B, then.

How would you feel if your child was gay?

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