New Social Welfare ID cards introduced.

Belly_Dancer · 06-10-2011 11:42PM #1

http://www.thejournal.ie/new-social-welfare-identity-cards-to-be-issued-next-week-246673-Oct2011/

At last the Govt appears to be doing something about the abuse of our overly generous Social Welfare system.

Will it work?

Wetai · 06-10-2011 11:43PM

THE DEPARTMENT of Social Protection is set to begin rolling out a new identity card scheme which it hopes will cut down on welfare fraud by making it more difficult for people to use false identification when claiming payments.

Speaking yesterday to the Joint Committee on Jobs, Social Protection and Education, the Department of Social Protection’s deputy secretary Anne Vaughan said combatting fraud was one of the department’s central concerns.

Vaughan said that social welfare fraud “undermines public confidence in the entire system as well as being unfair to other recipients of social welfare payments, taxpayers and business run on a legitimate basis”.

The new Public Services Card, which contains biometric information on the cardholder, is being piloted in Tullamore, Sligo and King’s Inn in Dublin city. No cards have been issued yet, but the first are expected to be distributed from next week.

The cards will initially be given to people of working age and an estimated 4,000 cards will be issued by the end of the year.

The front of the card will have a photograph of the cardholder as well as their name, signature and the card expiry date. The person’s PPS number and a card number will be on the back. The card will electronically hold further details such as date of birth, sex, nationalist, mother’s former surname (if any) and any former surnames of the cardholder.

A chip and pin system for the cards is also being planned.

The department says that the card will act as a ‘key’ for access to public services and will reduce resources currently required to verify a person’s identity. It also says that the card will replace current cards in use such as the Free Travel Card and Social Services Card.

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CoolHat · 06-10-2011 11:44PM

I dont understand how they will come into play next week?

How are they going to get everyones photo? (passport database?)

Hande hoche! · 06-10-2011 11:45PM

nationalist/nationality fail.

woodoo · 06-10-2011 11:46PM

I hope it covers all bases and is virtually unalterable. Every state benefit including Child Benefit and Medical Card should be on its chip.

Roll it out asap i say.

ahyeahok · 06-10-2011 11:46PM

CoolHat wrote: »

I dont understand how they will come into play next week?

How are they going to get everyones photo? (passport database?)

they will take your photo when you pop in to them.

phasers · 06-10-2011 11:48PM

Will dey give me an extra payment to get me hair done for the photo? I'm tinkin about gettin dose plaits de black burds have

ArtSmart · 06-10-2011 11:48PM

Belly_Dancer wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/new-social-welfare-identity-cards-to-be-issued-next-week-246673-Oct2011/

At last the Govt appears to be doing something about the abuse of our overly generous Social Welfare system.

Will it work?

Well if it doesnt I advocate shooting them. That way the 99% they spend in local* shops wont be wasted and can go to em, well you know, stuff. better stuff

*within a 5 mile radius

mikemac · 06-10-2011 11:49PM

Hurray, an end to the battered pieces of cardboard I see on Dublin Bus.

Many evenings the 78A has more pass holders then fare payers

Sure many of them are genuine and maybe on disability but considering an annual ticket costs several hundred, the potential savings are huge here

amacachi · 06-10-2011 11:50PM

They could just have some kinda of link between PRSI being paid and people making claims. Knew one guy who thought he was doing a shift a week cash-in-hand. Turned out the boss was putting it through the books. He was ****ting himself but still nothing's come of it. Amazing that in this day and age there's not an automatic link.

starbelgrade · 06-10-2011 11:50PM

Micro-chipping the poor.

Even Steve Jobs wouldn't have come up with such an innovative idea.

CoolHat · 06-10-2011 11:50PM

ahyeahok wrote: »

they will take your photo when you pop in to them.

I doubt that :P

But I can see that this wont stop everyone from frauding.
Say I was a Nigerian bloke with 3 indentities over here. Who is to say I give/take 3 photos with 3 different names. Slightly altering my appearance (clean shaven, gotee etc)

amacachi · 06-10-2011 11:50PM

phasers wrote: »

Will dey give me an extra payment to get me hair done for the photo? I'm tinkin about gettin dose plaits de black burds have

Your hairdresser must feel like someone turning up to an earthquake scene with a dustpan and brush.

amacachi · 06-10-2011 11:51PM

CoolHat wrote: »

I doubt that :P

But I can see that this wont stop everyone from frauding.
Say I was a Nigerian bloke with 3 indentities over here. Who is to say I give/take 3 photos with 3 different names. Slightly altering my appearance (clean shaven, gotee etc)

Aye, the ID card will make damn all difference.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 06-10-2011 11:52PM

About time, woohoo...

I bet some will find a way of getting a second one...

Stinicker · 06-10-2011 11:52PM

What a waste of money, why don't they do it properly and issue mandatory ID cards to the population.

Any time I want to fly Ryanair or fly to the EU I have to take my passport on what is almost an "internal" flight within the common block, with a proper National ID Card I could use it as my ID and not have to risk losing my passport with which I have numerous important visas and is a very important document. I find it a joke and it will probably be hacked and defrauded within a week, I do hope it works and if so there will suddenly be alot of people caught out and no harm either.

busyliving · 06-10-2011 11:54PM

I collected my dole the other day, and as always I hand over my card, and open my passport to show them I'm the correct person...

But I keep getting a look of them that says "I didn't ask for ID"... Which is a little worrying, I always thought they check your ID all the time, seems like a joke to me tbh

woodoo · 06-10-2011 11:54PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Micro-chipping the poor.

Are you suggesting implanting a chip in the wretches Squire?

Belly_Dancer · 06-10-2011 11:55PM

ahyeahok wrote: »

they will take your photo when you pop in to them.

i imagine they will phase out the old ones and introduce the new ones on a gradual basis. eventually we will reach a point where you will not be able to collect your payment unless you hold a new card.

i bet that'll incentivise Jerzy, Krzsztof & their mates to switch.:D

ahyeahok · 06-10-2011 11:55PM

CoolHat wrote: »

I doubt that :P

But I can see that this wont stop everyone from frauding.
Say I was a Nigerian bloke with 3 indentities over here. Who is to say I give/take 3 photos with 3 different names. Slightly altering my appearance (clean shaven, gotee etc)

It said on the radio that where ever it is you go to get the card will be equipped to take your photo.

mikemac · 06-10-2011 11:55PM

busyliving wrote: »

I collected my dole the other day, and as always I hand over my card, and open my passport to show them I'm the correct person...

Well they know you by now, you're a local

You don't need it if the post-mistress knows you

starbelgrade · 06-10-2011 11:56PM

woodoo wrote: »

Are you suggesting implanting a chip in the wretches Squire?

Nah.. just brand a barcode across their foreheads & scan them when they go to collect their welfare.

phasers · 06-10-2011 11:56PM

busyliving wrote: »

I collected my dole the other day, and as always I hand over my card, and open my passport to show them I'm the correct person...

But I keep getting a look of them that says "I didn't ask for ID"... Which is a little worrying, I always thought they check your ID all the time, seems like a joke to me tbh

I was never, Ever asked for photo id, even when I first applied. They only asked to see a bank statement. I could have been anyone. Maybe I just looked trustworthy.

amacachi · 06-10-2011 11:58PM

Never been asked for ID signing on. Post office never used to ask for ID at all til a coupla months ago.

Mike 1972 · 06-10-2011 11:59PM

ahyeahok wrote: »

they will take your photo when you pop in to them.

But if youre already successfully defrauding them how is that going to make any difference ? Any system of ID that relies on people first having to resort to other (flawed) methods of ID is going to achieve very little (bar more expense and inconvenience all around).

In order to justify it they came out with some guff about millions wasted on "overpayments" without stating

1) What proportion of overpayments were down to administrative fukups by SW staff rather than fraud on the part of the recipients ?
2) How much he new ID cards will actually cost ?

A study in the UK a few years back showed that mistakes by DSS staff cost more than fraud by the claimants. Theres no reason to believe that their Irish counterparts are any less incompetent.

phasers wrote: »

Maybe I just looked trustworthy.

If you look anything like your Avatar Id trust you :pac:

starbelgrade · 07-10-2011 12:00AM

Do siamese twins get double payments, or just the one?

Bosco boy · 07-10-2011 12:00AM

20 years too late! But welcome anyway, genuine people won't have a problem with it, chancers and scammers will.

woodoo · 07-10-2011 12:01AM

CoolHat wrote: »

I doubt that :P

But I can see that this wont stop everyone from frauding.
Say I was a Nigerian bloke with 3 indentities over here. Who is to say I give/take 3 photos with 3 different names. Slightly altering my appearance (clean shaven, gotee etc)

Is there a finger print or retina ID involved. May as well do it properly from the start.

phasers · 07-10-2011 12:01AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Do siamese twins get double payments, or just the one?

Depends, what do they have two of and what do they share?

Belly_Dancer · 07-10-2011 12:02AM

CoolHat wrote: »

I doubt that :P

But I can see that this wont stop everyone from frauding.
Say I was a Nigerian bloke with 3 indentities over here. Who is to say I give/take 3 photos with 3 different names. Slightly altering my appearance (clean shaven, gotee etc)

Good point Coolhat, but this is why the "The new Public Services Card, which contains biometric information on the cardholder" ie finger-print &/or Iris scan.

Unless our immigrant friend has got 3 different eyeballs then he's ****ed!:D

amacachi · 07-10-2011 12:07AM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

But if youre already successfully defrauding them how is that going to make any difference ?

In order to justify it they came out with some guff about millions wasted on "overpayments" without stating

1) What proportion of overpayments were down to administrative fukups by SW staff rather than fraud on the part of the recipients ?
2) How much he new ID cards will actually cost ?

A study in the UK a few years back showed that mistakes by DSS staff cost more than fraud by the claimants. Theres no reason to believe that their Irish counterparts are any less incompetent.

I dunno, I'm not fan of anything to do with government but we would need a massive overhaul of the system to make the job do-able at all. There's no automatic flagging with revenue or with the guys in NI.

New Social Welfare ID cards introduced.

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