The ESB And Eirgrid can go f*ck themselves - Merge

Zen65 wrote: »

It is EirGrid, not ESB that negotiates the terms of the wayleave. ESB serves the wayleave, but that is only a technicality as they do not negotiate terms.

A technicality? Eirgrid has no power to serve a wayleave notice.
They may "negotiate" a wayleave but they have no statutory power to enforce one.
If "negotiations" break down it's the ESB who pursue the matter in the courts and the ESB who send those who don't agree to prison.

Compensation is paid for all new lines at 110kV and above, as is agreed with the IFA. Those payments are made whether or not the landowner is a member of the IFA.

I never said compensation wasn't paid for new lines. My point was that the compensation isn't for the loss of any land. It's for loss of grazing, loss of crops etc.

The compensation isn't agreed with or by the IFA. Each situation is different and if compensation cannot be agreed between the landowner and the ESB (not Eirgrid) then the landowner may refer the matter to Arbitration. The Arbitrator has no regard for anythiing "agreed" by the IFA.

The equivalent UK utilities have the same powers as EirGrid and ESB for the erection of lines. There are administrative differences in how these are enforced, and the PP laws are slightly different. Privatisation is not the issue, nor is it a solution.

The electricity companies in the UK do not have the same power as the ESB. Eirgrid do not have the same power as the ESB.

The electricity companies in the UK seek to reach agreement with the landowner long before they resort to statutory wayleaves.

If agreement cannot be reached then the electricity companies may request that the Secretary of State grants a "necessay wayleave" for the line.

The UK system and legislation is far better and far more transparent than ours.

Overheal wrote: »

do the trees qualify?

Yes the trees qualify and she can keep using the land but she cannot plant more trees under the line. If it was underground it would be the same, trees felled, compensation & nothing planted over cable.

The electricity company here also tried to negotiate but were stonewalled. She could have objected to planning, not once but twice but she didn't. Even after 2008 there has been ongoing negotiation, the ESB may have been gits I don't know but she has seemed more than capable of dealing with them.

Whatever about wayleaves or easements she is blocking essential line, it has to go somewhere so why not through low value habitat such as forestry plantation. Sad as it is to see large trees in hedgerows felled it is probably only a small number in comparison to the conifers.

joela wrote: »

Yes the trees qualify and she can keep using the land but she cannot plant more trees under the line. If it was underground it would be the same, trees felled, compensation & nothing planted over cable..

Unless the ESB specifically acquire the womans right to plant trees on her land, whether the cable is overground or underground she can plant whatever she wants on her land, in the same way she could build something over the line or under the line.

A wayleave for the line doesn't give the ESB the power to prevent her planting trees under the line, only an easement can do that.

The electricity company here also tried to negotiate but were stonewalled. She could have objected to planning, not once but twice but she didn't. Even after 2008 there has been ongoing negotiation, the ESB may have been gits I don't know but she has seemed more than capable of dealing with them.

Pure speculation on your behalf.

Whatever about wayleaves or easements she is blocking essential line, it has to go somewhere so why not through low value habitat such as forestry plantation. Sad as it is to see large trees in hedgerows felled it is probably only a small number in comparison to the conifers

Clearly, you do not understand the difference between a wayleave and an easement.

Until you do, the issue of what types of trees were cut doesn't matter.

joela wrote: »

Apply some logic here, she cannot plant trees under the line or over the cables once they are in place. This indeed fact, trees under or over lines Verboten, think logically now.

You don't know what you are talking about.

If the ESB want to acquire her right to plant trees anywhere on her land they must acquire that right, either compulsorily or by agreement.

I've already posted a link to the ESB's "Loss of Tree Planting Rights" document.

If you can't read it or don't understand it I'd be happy to explain it.

They require an easement on her land to legally prevent her from planting trees within a specified distance of the line, whether the line be over or under ground.

Thats a fact.

She will be compensated for the trees.

If she accepts their offer or takes the matter to Arbitration she will receive compensation for the value of the physical trees that she has lost.

She will not receive compensation for the loss of tree planting rights on her land as those rights have not been acquired.

She has the right to earn a living from her land. If they want to take that right they must compensation her for the loss of that right.

Compensatiing her for the loss of one crop of trees doesn't compensate her for the loss of future crops.

There is a huge difference between the two.

She has been negotiated with, it has been stated, reported & told to me. Even the protestors admit it albeit in a roundabout way I.e bullying. This woman has several properties, commercial forestry & has kept herself in prison for 3 weeks, I think she is perfectly able to withstand the ESB. She locked her gates & stood in front of the lock, hardly timorous old dear now is she?

Irrelevant nonsense.

You keep talking about wayleave versus easement and CPO etc. Do you not think you have done it to death at this stage? I still don't know what your point is and you are definitely making assumptions about Eirgrid did or didn't do. Have you got the documentation relating to this case, if so please post and enlighten us all.

Just because you don't understand the difference between a wayleave and an easement and a CPO isn't my problem.

What assumptions have I made about Eirgrid?

I've already posted numerous links to material relevant to this.
It's not my fault if you haven't read it or can't understand it.

marienbad wrote: »

Loremolis ,Can I ask you did she lodge objections with or participate in the planning and appeal process ?

I don't know.

joela wrote: »

There is no submission on Offaly County Council website or on the An Bord Pleanala appeal. There are 3 submissions on file on the websites.

So does that mean she waited until the ESB arrived before taking this stance ?

loremolis wrote: »

The electricity company here also tried to negotiate but were stonewalled. She could have objected to planning, not once but twice but she didn't. Even after 2008 there has been ongoing negotiation, the ESB may have been gits I don't know but she has seemed more than capable of dealing with them.

Pure speculation on your behalf.

I'm listening to the interview on Matt Cooper* with the Prison Governor and the EirGrid Regional Manager, and it's very informative. Clearly the negotiations with this lady have been going on for some years. It seems that it's only 3 or 4 acres of the 100 acres which need to be cut.

Taking it at face value, it really does seem like the whole fuss is a storm in a teacup.


Z

*this link to Matt Cooper is only valid for 7 days from now

wee truck big driver wrote: »

grumpy old woman

Why you bringing her age and sex into it? :P

GetWithIt wrote: »

I've only read the first page and last page (like many others I'm sure) but in order to put the cables under ground wouldn't you have to dig up the trees first?

I'm fully expecting a Fry from Futurama meme style response.

(Edit) ala: http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/newsfeed/000/131/351/eb6.jpg

Confirmed by baldy ESB guy on Primetime.

"We all want to see infrastructure" (Richard Boyd-Barrett on Prime Time)

LOL,

I love how everybody says that, but wants it all placed somewhere else.


Z

loremolis wrote: »

Cutting edge analysis of the situation.


I actually watched and listened to the Primetime show last night.

What a crock of the same sh1t from the Eirgrid muppet.

He avoided answering every direct question put to him and what he did say was bullsh1t of the highest order.

The false, conciliatory tone along with the fake tear in his eye because the woman was in prison is standard civil service holier than thou attitude.

Where were the ESB?

They're the ones who served the wayleave notice and had the woman sent to prison because she wouldn't agree to their terms and conditions or accept their paltry compensation.

This line clearly could have been routed around her land or could still be placed undergrounded around her land to avoid the trees entirely.

She'll stick it out, not because she's grumpy or a nimby but because she has principles and is determined to protect what she owns.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

loremolis wrote: »

What a crock of the same sh1t from the Eirgrid muppet.

He avoided answering every direct question put to him and what he did say was bullsh1t of the highest order.

Care to elaborate? I thought he did well, given the mad situation that EirGrid are now in.

Which bit of what he said was bs?

loremolis wrote: »

Where were the ESB?

Cutting trees in the dark? It does seem like the fastest way to get the poor woman out of prison!!


Z