Irish first policy for jobs

IrishEyes19 · 04-10-2011 05:41PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

I confess that I don't understand this.

Why should Irish people who emigrated and haven't contributed to the economy get preference over people who may have come here, or been born to parents who came here, and have been working and paying taxes here.

Let's imagine Tom is born in Ireland, and leaves for Australia when he's 21. At the age of 36, he decides to come back here.

Now Pawel came here when he 25. He's now 42 and has been working and paying taxes for the majority of his time here, and is a legitimate E.U citizen.

They're both applying for the same job, and are equally suitable for it.

Would Tom, under your system, be the preferred candidate?
If so, why?
I genuinely don't understand your criteria, and why they should give Tom an advantage.

thats fair. I agree. If you chose to leave and make your life somewhere else, thats fair enough, but I have issue with our country paying child benefits to children abroad. I think their own country should take care of that. Its not fair anymore. We're in the horrors economically here, and we're paying for other peoples children abroad. It should be the responsibility of that country to do so.

al28283 · 04-10-2011 05:45PM

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

thats fair. I agree. If you chose to leave and make your life somewhere else, thats fair enough, but I have issue with our country paying child benefits to children abroad. I think their own country should take care of that. Its not fair anymore. We're in the horrors economically here, and we're paying for other peoples children abroad. It should be the responsibility of that country to do so.

Wow, really? That's not a great plan if you think it through. We couldn't afford to pay for all the kids born to Irish parents who have emigrated. Not a hope in hell

Leftist · 04-10-2011 05:46PM

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

thats fair. I agree. If you chose to leave and make your life somewhere else, thats fair enough, but I have issue with our country paying child benefits to children abroad. I think their own country should take care of that. Its not fair anymore. We're in the horrors economically here, and we're paying for other peoples children abroad. It should be the responsibility of that country to do so.

what are you talking about?
sending money back to the mother country you have in another post. Where are you getting this information? is it second hand horse**** passed around by xenophobic sanctamonious bog brains or are there facts to back this up?

This thread is an absolute embarrasment to Ireland. Cannot believe the pig ignorance of the original post.

Bring back ex-pats and favour them over nationalised, hard working, tax paying european citizens, I suppose we should expect every other country that's been kind enough to welcome paddies for 100 years to send them back too?
Basically we're looking at ethnic cleansing. Excellent. What a great forward thinking country we have.

billybudd · 04-10-2011 05:56PM

Leftist wrote: »

what are you talking about?
sending money back to the mother country you have in another post. Where are you getting this information? is it second hand horse**** passed around by xenophobic sanctamonious bog brains or are there facts to back this up?

This thread is an absolute embarrasment to Ireland. Cannot believe the pig ignorance of the original post.

Bring back ex-pats and favour them over nationalised, hard working, tax paying european citizens, I suppose we should expect every other country that's been kind enough to welcome paddies for 100 years to send them back too?
Basically we're looking at ethnic cleansing. Excellent. What a great forward thinking country we have.

If anyone can show me they own the ''deeds'' to Ireland or any other country i would happily take their xenophobia seriously.

Leftist · 04-10-2011 06:25PM

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

+ 1 to this. Its very interesting how social morals are at all time high when people are behind a computer screen. But Id be willing to bet anything when faced with no job due to redundency or being let go and you cant get a job anywhere. things change.

The brazen attitudes Ive faced when working as the only Irish girl in a shop, or being ignored or literarly laughed at has been horrendous. And its certainly not all non nationals Ive worked with, but the majority have been very cold. Thankfully not all of them or Id have lost my mind. Or telling me theres no job positions and when I asked for the manager Id be offered an interview in some cases. Madness.

this is an absolute classic.

foreigners come to our shops and take our jobs, but not only that they laugh at us in shops, and are cold.

What's this rubbish about asking floor staff for job positions instead of the manager, are they conspiring against irish nationals now?

And on the other post, we see poor cailin can't get a job as a student in a shop because a foreigner who works for less money and has far more flexible working hours but less experience (how is this known).

It's textbook idiot.

Paddy Cow · 04-10-2011 06:30PM

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

thats fair. I agree. If you chose to leave and make your life somewhere else, thats fair enough, but I have issue with our country paying child benefits to children abroad. I think their own country should take care of that. Its not fair anymore. We're in the horrors economically here, and we're paying for other peoples children abroad.

I think you'll find that it's the EU paying for those things

It should be the responsibility of that country to do so.

If the rich countries took your attitude and only decided to take care of their own, we'd be f*cked. You might want to broaden your sights before you start talking about other countries looking after their own responsibilities. If it was up to Ireland alone to support all the citizens, we'd all be out in the fields planting potatoes, begging Europe for some of those butter vouchers.

KeithAFC · 04-10-2011 06:31PM

air assault wrote: »

Some people may take offence to this but dont you think its time that we looked after our own people first, after all this is Ireland, the land of the Irish. Take applying for jobs for example i think we should bring in a law that says that Irish people should have first prefernce and only when the employer cannot find suitable candiates from the Irish people applying for that job, they can hire another national thats in the country already and not bring them in from abroad like what is happening at the moment in alot of the service industries.

Absolutely agree. Should be written into all constitutions.

mr.wiggle · 04-10-2011 06:57PM

Leftist wrote: »

what are you talking about?
sending money back to the mother country you have in another post. Where are you getting this information? is it second hand horse**** passed around by xenophobic sanctamonious bog brains or are there facts to back this up?

I can see this thread is veering off topic, but you did ask for proof of money leaving the state:

LINKY:
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/09/14/00268.asp

And re another poster saying we're getting the cash off europe for this... are you fcuking serious??? Who do you think is paying back this cash from our loving European neighbours? Those of us who are 'lucky' enough to have a job, paying prsi/paye tax and that lovely, lovely Universal Service Charge !

I don't mind paying my for my debts, but handing out my hard earned cash to support for others who don't reside here is a bitter pill to swallow.

Not a rant, just a sad and sorry fact.

Paddy Cow · 04-10-2011 07:38PM

mr.wiggle wrote: »

And re another poster saying we're getting the cash off europe for this... are you fcuking serious??? Who do you think is paying back this cash from our loving European neighbours? Those of us who are 'lucky' enough to have a job, paying prsi/paye tax and that lovely, lovely Universal Service Charge !

I don't mind paying my for my debts, but handing out my hard earned cash to support for others who don't reside here is a bitter pill to swallow.

Not a rant, just a sad and sorry fact.

Yes I am. Since we joined the EU we have had far more money invested in us in the form of bailouts and grants than we give to foreigners in the form of jobs/social welfare. Do you honestly think that if it wasn't for the EU we would have experienced the boom of the celtic tiger? It's not that long ago that people were lucky to finish secondary school and going to university only became feasible with the introduction of free fees. Again, where do you think the money came for that? It wasn't because we were so brilliant on our own.

Yes the bailout money will have to be repaid but if we didn't have the EU proping us up for decades, then the country would never have been in the situation where foreigners actually thought life in Ireland would be better than life in their own country. You think it's a bitter pill to swallow to support other EU nationals, when it's the EU who has supported us for donkey's years? How do you think the richer EU citizens feel about us? How many grants over the years from the EU pot have been enjoyed by Irish citizens? It's funny how people don't have any qualms about taking from the EU but go bat **** crazy with patriotism when it's time to give back.

IrishEyes19 · 04-10-2011 10:42PM

Leftist wrote: »

what are you talking about?
sending money back to the mother country you have in another post. Where are you getting this information? is it second hand horse**** passed around by xenophobic sanctamonious bog brains or are there facts to back this up?

This thread is an absolute embarrasment to Ireland. Cannot believe the pig ignorance of the original post.

Bring back ex-pats and favour them over nationalised, hard working, tax paying european citizens, I suppose we should expect every other country that's been kind enough to welcome paddies for 100 years to send them back too?
Basically we're looking at ethnic cleansing. Excellent. What a great forward thinking country we have.

Am...hold your horses. that is fact. I didnt and dont want to cause any offence here. Not my intention. But yes that is the case. I was in the post office and a man who was ahead of me not from this country was complaining because he had to collect money for his children abroad and he was running late as it was. no joke. and its not the first time Ive heard this, as it is the government are looking to scrap this

never said a word about ethnic cleansing, thats disgusting and your words.

hardCopy · 04-10-2011 10:52PM

I wanted to be an airplane driver and make 100k.

They wouldn't hire me coz some bloody immigant does it for 50k.

PC Brussels liberals gone mad!

Mike 1972 · 04-10-2011 11:10PM

air assault wrote: »

dont you think its time that we looked after our own people first, after all this is Ireland

Why do you think that the world owes you a living because you happen to have been born in Ireland ?

Your sense of entitlement isint going to do you any favours with potential employers.

04-10-2011 11:15PM

Do they not do this already in Canada? As in, if you get a job over there the employer has to prove that the position could not be filled by a Canadian?

Capt'n Midnight · 04-10-2011 11:45PM

What might be worth is looking into total costs of government contracts.

At present these can go to anywhere in the EU. But a job abroad means one person here on the dole. With real-world costs where we can pay €10K more per year per job created or kept here compared to one in another state.

air assault · 04-10-2011 11:52PM

bbam wrote: »

But it is Racist..
You would be downgrading a persons status based on their race, i.e. they wouldn't get a fair crack at getting a job because they're not Irish.
At least if you're going to support it in public, call it for what it is... Racism

I've no problem with people calling for reviews of immigration regulation or points systems as seen in other states... But pure simple Racism is just a shocking thing...

If we allow people from other countries to come here and set up home, they do so legally then they should be allowed to apply for jobs on an equal status. I think that our more multicultural society has improved Ireland as a place to live.

its not racism. its putting your people first, racism would be banning non irish from applying for jobs

air assault · 04-10-2011 11:55PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

I confess that I don't understand this.

Why should Irish people who emigrated and haven't contributed to the economy get preference over people who may have come here, or been born to parents who came here, and have been working and paying taxes here.

Let's imagine Tom is born in Ireland, and leaves for Australia when he's 21. At the age of 36, he decides to come back here.

Now Pawel came here when he 25. He's now 42 and has been working and paying taxes for the majority of his time here, and is a legitimate E.U citizen.

They're both applying for the same job, and are equally suitable for it.

Would Tom, under your system, be the preferred candidate?
If so, why?
I genuinely don't understand your criteria, and why they should give Tom an advantage.

tom would get first prefernce because he is irish and irish people should be put first in their own country.

jimmycrackcorm · 04-10-2011 11:56PM

The easiest way to introduce an Irish-first policy for jobs is to reduce Social welfare payments. Then Chinese retail assistants in Lidl and Spar will become an endangered species.

blueythebear · 05-10-2011 12:00AM

hardCopy wrote: »

I wanted to be an airplane driver and make 100k.

They wouldn't hire me coz some bloody immigant does it for 50k.

PC Brussels liberals gone mad!

Sarcasm? If not, then it's pretty clear why you didn't get the job.

blueythebear · 05-10-2011 12:09AM

air assault wrote: »

its not racism. its putting your people first, racism would be banning non irish from applying for jobs

Racism would be treating a person less favourably on the basis of their nationality so an Irish first policy would constitute racism as a Chinese national would be treated less favourably than the Irish person. Whether it it justified in the current climate is a different matter.

I think the race to the bottom argument is pointless these days. The rate of unemployment is such that I think that anybody that is unemployed would be glad to have a job. If they are unsatisfied with the pay, there are robust enforcement mechanisms through the relevant Employment Law statutes.

OPENROAD · 05-10-2011 12:19AM

air assault wrote: »

its not racism. its putting your people first, racism would be banning non irish from applying for jobs

Assume the English and Americans should also do the same ?

Celly Smunt · 05-10-2011 12:21AM

The Government puts in place the amount of work permits,EU and International rights protect the legislation.Right person for the job over nationality,whether Irish or otherwise.

The King of Moo · 05-10-2011 01:22AM

air assault wrote: »

tom would get first prefernce because he is irish and irish people should be put first in their own country.

But don't you take into account how much they've contributed to society?

You say it's Tom's own country, but does his passport alone give him that sense of ownership?

Someone, for example, who leaves the country as a child when their family emigrates and comes back as an adult is basically Irish in name only.

And yet they should be given preference over an equally-skilled immigrant from the E.U who's entitled to work here, and who has contributed to the Irish economy through paying taxes for years?

If it's a case of people from abroad being shipped in when there's people already here who are qualified, then fair enough.

But to give preference to being technically Irish, without having lived here or contributed in any way to Irish society, seems crazy to me.

Pick the best person who seeks the job, as long as they're legally entitled to do it, regardless of where they're technically from.

K-9 · 05-10-2011 01:27AM

air assault wrote: »

its not racism. its putting your people first, racism would be banning non irish from applying for jobs

But what's the point in non Irish applying if it's going to the best Irish person!

Logic and racism don't mix, logical opposites!

Father Damo · 05-10-2011 01:45AM

Part of the problem here is that alot of jobs are completely off limits to Irish people. Fast food franchises or Spar shops for example- a few years ago the vast majority of the franchisees left the day to day running of these places to a trusted foreign manager. This guy, in turn, will generally only hire old mates from the homeland. Where I lived back home, the manager and all the staff of the Spar were Polish. The offy manager and staff were all Slovak. All the staff and head manager in Burger King were Chinese- most of the McDonalds staff/ management were Pakistani. I think its pretty impossibe that not one of these places ever had an rish person apply for work there. I genuinely believe an awful lot of Irish unemployed people would gladly do a minimum wage regardless of their qualifications as long as they could secure a 60 hour week, so that they could have a halfway reasonable income. But the service jobs are largely off limits due to the management hiring policies.

Father Damo · 05-10-2011 02:04AM

stovelid wrote: »

Of course you would also be happy with other countries doing that to Irish emigrants....

Name me one country where Irish people are taking jobs that natives are actively chasing. One country where natives are sitting on the dole because of Irish competition in the job market. It sure as hell isnt happening in Australia. Anyone in Australias urban areas who is unemployed is lazy, end of. Same likely goes for a few other places the Irish have been fleeing to over the last few years.

ResearchWill · 05-10-2011 02:21AM

Father Damo wrote: »

Part of the problem here is that alot of jobs are completely off limits to Irish people. Fast food franchises or Spar shops for example- a few years ago the vast majority of the franchisees left the day to day running of these places to a trusted foreign manager. This guy, in turn, will generally only hire old mates from the homeland. Where I lived back home, the manager and all the staff of the Spar were Polish. The offy manager and staff were all Slovak. All the staff and head manager in Burger King were Chinese- most of the McDonalds staff/ management were Pakistani. I think its pretty impossibe that not one of these places ever had an rish person apply for work there. I genuinely believe an awful lot of Irish unemployed people would gladly do a minimum wage regardless of their qualifications as long as they could secure a 60 hour week, so that they could have a halfway reasonable income. But the service jobs are largely off limits due to the management hiring policies.

Mate of mine opened a shop 2008 had zero applications from Irish people, he was amazed. He gets CV's handed in all the time very very few from Irish.

OPENROAD · 05-10-2011 02:36AM

Father Damo wrote: »

Name me one country where Irish people are taking jobs that natives are actively chasing. One country where natives are sitting on the dole because of Irish competition in the job market. It sure as hell isnt happening in Australia. Anyone in Australias urban areas who is unemployed is lazy, end of. Same likely goes for a few other places the Irish have been fleeing to over the last few years.

You being serious????

Father Damo · 05-10-2011 02:39AM

ResearchWill wrote: »

Mate of mine opened a shop 2008 had zero applications from Irish people, he was amazed. He gets CV's handed in all the time very very few from Irish.

I find it very hard to believe that in the current economic climate he is not getting applications from Irish people, I really do. For example, even when the economy was going good, your average Dunnes Stores, whilst having alot of foreign staff, still had alot of young Irish girls, alot of them students working part time So did Tesco. Aldi, Spar and Lidl, on the other hand, I never saw an Irish staff member there in my life. The wages would be pretty much the same- is it honestly the case than when seeking minimum wage jobs one supermarket was more desireable than the other? Or is it moe that the foreign store managers in the likes of Spar were running an old boys club for lads from home.

twowheelsonly · 05-10-2011 02:44AM

Father Damo wrote: »

Part of the problem here is that alot of jobs are completely off limits to Irish people. Fast food franchises or Spar shops for example- a few years ago the vast majority of the franchisees left the day to day running of these places to a trusted foreign manager. This guy, in turn, will generally only hire old mates from the homeland. Where I lived back home, the manager and all the staff of the Spar were Polish. The offy manager and staff were all Slovak. All the staff and head manager in Burger King were Chinese- most of the McDonalds staff/ management were Pakistani. I think its pretty impossibe that not one of these places ever had an rish person apply for work there. I genuinely believe an awful lot of Irish unemployed people would gladly do a minimum wage regardless of their qualifications as long as they could secure a 60 hour week, so that they could have a halfway reasonable income. But the service jobs are largely off limits due to the management hiring policies.

Ain't necessarily so I'm afraid.
A lot of these places have Irish management but up to recently found it impossible to find Irish staff - including managers.

My own business is Customer service related and the jobs are all 'casual part-time' i.e. there is no set roster or days for working. In November 2008 we advertised for staff. I opened the first 80 emails and out of that there was 1 Irish applicant. Strangely enough there were almost 40 Brazilians - the rest were roughly 50% EU and a 50% worldwide mix.
Currently, through recruiting by word of mouth, about 90% of our staff are Irish. I still wouldn't hesitate to recruit good foreigners though as the good ones are brilliant and have a great work ethic.

Irish students are just about the worst of the lot and I won't be hiring any more of them. They whinge about or are suddenly not available on Saturdays, they disappear in December and May due to exams and many of them head off for the Summer and expect us to hold their job for them. I've even been told that legally I have to do so!!! Another one was the fella that had an exam on a Saturday night at eight so couldn't work that night. There are of course exceptions but by and large they're 'not the greatest'.
The best employees that we have are those that are also working other jobs - both Irish and non-Irish. We have a few that are on the dole and they're regularly not available. WTF is that all about??

On one Saturday earlier this year I needed 55 people working in Dublin. Out of a staff of 81 I managed to get 44 people in yet most of those that were missing were available for Sunday (There was a 'big' event on that they all wanted to go to!!). A few years ago, when a much larger proportion of our staff were foreigners we had no such problems, they were all mad to work.

Just my tuppence worth....for what it's worth

Father Damo · 05-10-2011 03:06AM

OPENROAD wrote: »

You being serious????

Its certainly not in Australia.

Im guessing from the riots that there are an awful lot of people in London who also cant be bothered.

Despite apparently out of control unemployment thousands of Irish who have no welfare entitlements are somehow surviving in the US.

I could go on.....

Irish first policy for jobs

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