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Amanda Knox

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,272 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    jene wrote: »
    After all the evidence that Guede is the culprit, I just can't understand why all the hatred is towards Amanda and not Guede. I guess Guede just does'nt sell enough papers.

    Alleged kinky stuff and depravity sells more papers than robbery/murder.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 Mrs Frank Abignale


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    Alleged kinky stuff and depravity sells more papers than robbery/murder.
    Nail on the head !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 662 ✭✭✭fran oconnor


    I think Guede was framed, Just like Kobe and Jacko :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭Kasabian


    Glad she has been released, never believed she was involved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    orourkeda wrote: »
    It has too. Otherwise we get a completely one sided account of proceedings

    Frankly I'd be more worried about people using their celebrity status and the media in order to get away with crimes.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭leonidas83


    This case to me highlights the serious flaws in Mediterrean countries judicial systems, they are seriously neglectful in compiling evidence and it seems they are heavily determined to pin the crime on somebody whether they are guilty or not.

    The evidence against Amanda Knox was flimsy at best and for this reason alone she should not have been tried. Whether she was involved in this crime is another question, the fact that she was imprisoned for 4 years based on the evidence reported is a deep stain on Italy as a country.

    Coming up with half baked ideas from contaminated evidence reminds of another case yet to be solved, Madeline McCann.

    These countries need to have a serious look at how they handle serious crimes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭A Primal Nut


    I can understand some of the suspicion regarding Knox implicating her boss and then signing a confession.

    But I think you need to put yourself in her shoes. She's a 20 year old girl - we all know what people that age are like. It's not like she is trained in how to deal with interrogations or intense questioning. Now imagine any 20-year old girl you know.

    In the case of her boss, she believed the police were there to help and they told her that Lumumba had done it - and she trusted them. They then interrogated her for up to 12 hours. Now imagine any 20-year old girl you know being subjected to 12 hours of interrogation (I think it was 50+ hours over 5 days). You really think they won't give in and sign? She believed the police were telling the truth that Lumumba had done it - she trusted them, and she gave in and signed under intense pressure. The fact she lasted as long as she did is impressive in itself - probably longer than some people on this thread would have lasted.

    The fact that this was portrayed in the media as her pointing the finger at Lumumba is rediculous.

    As for the confession - very similiar circumstances; being pressured and then giving in and signing. The fact she withdrew the confession proves this - why would she confess and then deny soon after?

    Neither confession was recorded. I have no problems with interrogations for intelligence purposes but using them for evidence is crazy.

    For people who think she didn't care about Meredith in the aftermath; all of Meredith's British friends flew home immediately after she was murdered in case the police pointed the finger at any of them. Knox stayed on, in her words, to help with the investigation. She cared a lot more than any of her British friends who didn't stand up for Knox or do anything to help with the investigation.

    Of course we don't know that all of this is true - but which is more likely - she was a 20-year old naive girl or a brutal killer who is crazy enough to stay on in Italy after the murder instead of flying home because she is some kind of sociopath who loved the attention? Given that there is so little evidence that she killed Meredith; I think I'm going to with the naive theory.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,012 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    leonidas83 wrote: »
    This case to me highlights the serious flaws in Mediterrean countries judicial systems, they are seriously neglectful in compiling evidence and it seems they are heavily determined to pin the crime on somebody whether they are guilty or not.

    The evidence against Amanda Knox was flimsy at best and for this reason alone she should not have been tried. Whether she was involved in this crime is another question, the fact that she was imprisoned for 4 years based on the evidence reported is a deep stain on Italy as a country.

    Coming up with half baked ideas from contaminated evidence reminds of another case yet to be solved, Madeline McCann.

    These countries need to have a serious look at how they handle serious crimes

    Portugal = Mediterranean now?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    prinz wrote: »
    Frankly I'd be more worried about people using their celebrity status and the media in order to get away with crimes.

    Which demonstrates how easily a media savvy operator can divert the publics attention from the evidence


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    Alleged kinky stuff and depravity sells more papers than robbery/murder.

    Theres your key word.

    Besides, ones sexual preferences dont necessarily indicate guilt in a crime


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Giblet wrote: »
    Portugal = Mediterranean now?

    It is classified as a mediterranean climate as opposed to having a mediterranean coastline


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,012 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    orourkeda wrote: »
    It is classified as a mediterranean climate as opposed to having a mediterranean coastline

    So it's not a Mediterranean country, and in fact, the point that was made is complete and utter BS as they're completely independent from each other?

    The Madeline McCann case had other issues, such as British interference.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Giblet wrote: »
    So it's not a Mediterranean country, and in fact, the point that was made is complete and utter BS as they're completely independent from each other?

    The Madeline McCann case had other issues, such as British interference.

    Perhaps not the greatest illustration but I think you get the original point


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 884 ✭✭✭spider guardian


    I believe the correct verdict has been rendered. The prosecution had a flimsy case to begin with. The demonisation of Knox in the media was disgraceful. It's a big stretch to paint her as a kinky-sex loving witch without any evidence to back it up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭Tayla


    Mignini said he's going to appeal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    I believe the correct verdict has been rendered. The prosecution had a flimsy case to begin with. The demonisation of Knox in the media was disgraceful. It's a big stretch to paint her as a kinky-sex loving witch without any evidence to back it up.

    Thats what the press do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭Tayla


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Thats what the press do.

    It's terrible to allow the press to do that in a country where the jury is allowed to watch and read about the case throughout, where the prosecuters leak things which they know the press will sensationalise and on top of all that the jurors aren't even screened for any bias.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭leonidas83


    Giblet wrote: »
    So it's not a Mediterranean country, and in fact, the point that was made is complete and utter BS as they're completely independent from each other?

    The Madeline McCann case had other issues, such as British interference.

    Jesus your a bit pathetic with that post arent you.
    Everyone here knows the two countries are independent from each other but are much more smilar in culture, climate, attitudes than the northern europeans.

    And what are you talking about? the McCann case had very similar issues in how poorly the investigation was carried out with regards to compiling the evidence, interpretation of the suspects behaviour and half baked theories. Of course not everything is the same but how these countries carry out their investigations needs to be seriously looked at.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,272 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Tayla wrote: »
    Mignini said he's going to appeal.

    He's probably only going through the motions, knowing damn well that it's going to get thrown out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭Giruilla


    When it comes down to it this is the real reason why they got off.
    9. Appeals process

    The Italian appeals process offers more guarantees to defendants than any other legal system in the world, whereby only the weakest evidence is treated, not the whole case. Knox's team only had to attack the DNA evidence against her to undermine the whole edifice of the original trial. Italy has one of lowest prison populations in the world because of its lenient appeals process.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15157384


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 884 ✭✭✭spider guardian


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Thats what the press do.

    They might have contributed to a young girl losing four years of her life. Very depressing stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,012 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    leonidas83 wrote: »
    Jesus your a bit pathetic with that post arent you.
    Everyone here knows the two countries are independent from each other but are much more smilar in culture, climate, attitudes than the nothern europeans.

    And what are you talking about? the McCann case had very similar issues in how poorly the investigation was carried out with regards to compiling the evidence, interpretation of the suspects behaviour and half baked theories. Of course not everything is the same but how these countries carry out their investigations needs to be seriously looked at.

    Such as the Chief being fired after being critical of the British involvement not long after the British PM had requested a meeting with the Portuguese PM? The Chief who found substantial DNA evidence in the apartment and indeed, rented car of the McCanns which was then suppressed due to favouring that the couple not being shown in a bad light?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭Tayla


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    He's probably only going through the motions, knowing damn well that it's going to get thrown out.

    Mignini is absolutely crazy, I'm sure it will be thrown out aswell.
    He should apologize to the Kercher family for allowing Rudy Guede to escape with a much reduced sentence by implicating two innocent people.

    It was great to see the photos of Amanda today at the airport heading home.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭leonidas83


    Giblet wrote: »
    Such as the Chief being fired after being critical of the British involvement not long after the British PM had requested a meeting with the Portuguese PM? The Chief who found substantial DNA evidence in the apartment and indeed, rented car of the McCanns which was then suppressed due to favouring that the couple not being shown in a bad light?

    Conspiracy theories forum ->

    Dont turn this into another Madeline McCann thread, oh and by the way, check out that chiefs past, he's as dodgy and corrupt as the head of the prosecution in this case. Dont believe everything you see on youtube


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭demolitionman


    Can anyone explain why the bedroom door was locked?

    The rolling stone theory doesnt mention it and i haven't seen a compelling answer for it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,012 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    leonidas83 wrote: »
    Conspiracy theories forum ->

    Dont turn this into another Madeline McCann thread, oh and by the way, check out that chiefs past, he's as dodgy and corrupt as the head of the prosecution in this case. Dont believe everything you see on youtube

    Why would you think I used youtube over say, reading the facts and understanding what had happened through my own intuition? Is it because it's easier to say that I used youtube as it somehow lowers my credibility?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭parker kent


    I know there could be rainforests chopped down in order to summarise how cack handed the Italian judicial system is, but this article in The Guardian today sums up this case and the surrounding controversy pretty well.
    Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito last night won their appeal against their conviction for the murder of Meredith Kercher. But if many doubted the first verdict, just as many will doubt this one. It's one of the many failings of Italian justice that it never delivers conclusive, door-slamming certainty. What usually happens is that the door is left wide open to take the case to the next level, first to appeal and then to the cassazione, the supreme court. The score in the public imagination, at the moment, is simply one-all.


    It's always been that way. There's barely one iconic crime from the post-war years that has persuaded the country that, yes, justice has been done: the murder of Pier Paolo Pasolini, the Ustica crash, the Bologna railway station bombing, the Piazza Fontana atrocity, the Monster of Florence murders, the murder of Luigi Calabresi, the "caso Cogne" … none has ever been satisfactorily, convincingly resolved. Instead the country seems to split into innocentisti and colpevolisti (those who believe in the innocence or guilt of the accused) and the heated debates continue for decades.


    Part of the reason that the Knox trial has captivated media attention isn't just the "Foxy Knoxy" thing, the fact that Knox was attractive and allegedly sexually adventurous. It isn't just because of the cosmopolitanism of the crime, the fact that here was a foreign victim and, it was thought, a foreign assassin. Its appeal, if that's not too gruesome a word, lies in the fact that there was sufficient doubt about both the prosecution and defence cases. Italy is divided down the middle, meaning that the case is, in a way, perfectly set up for a media circus, for debate and deconstruction. Already the Kercher case has spawned, at the last count, 11 books and a film.


    Dietrologia – literally "behindery" or conspiracy-theorising – is a national pastime precisely because the courts don't offer convincing verdicts. It allows every journalist, magistrate and barfly to try their hand. The result is that everyone with an active imagination has a go at explaining the truth behind the mystery, and inevitably the truth only gets further buried beneath so many excited explanations. The media plays an active role in keeping the circus going: in no other country are cronache nere – "black chronicles" – so much the mainstay of the evening news. There's always a case on the go. Between 2005 and 2010, the seven national channels aired, in the evening news alone, 941 stories about the Meredith Kercher murder in Perugia, 759 about the Garlasco murder, 538 about the murder of little Tommaso Onofri and 508 about the murder in Cogne. Often studio shows in the afternoons talk about the ins and outs of these cases for hours, interspersing expert witnesses with short location reports. And because such cases often have one trial then another, they're like stories that never end, so that the speculation and the spectacle can continue untramelled. As one journalist recently wrote in La Repubblica, these cases are popular because they "generate anxiety but, at the same time, they reassure. They brush up against us, but touch others. It's like leaning over the edge of a precipice to step back at the last moment. You feel giddiness. Anxiety. But also relief. It's a subtle pleasure".


    It's a truism that fact and fiction often overlap, but in Italy it really is the case. Two of the best crime novelists – Giancarlo De Cataldo and Gianrico Carofiglio – have both worked as judges and draw on real life; and the godfather of Italian crime writing, Loriano Macchiavelli, has often revisited real crimes like Ustica and the Bologna bombing. Occasionally writers even get caught up in the weird wheels of Italian justice: the great writer Massimo Carlotto was accused of murder back in the 1970s and the American novelist, Douglas Preston, has been vociferous in his defence of Knox because the prosecutor in the case had previously turned his ire on Preston when he was writing about the Monster of Florence case. In Italy, true and fictional crime stories blur into one another and, as Luigi Pirandello warned almost a century ago, in this land of illusionism you could go mad searching for the missing truth.


    There are also, however, more mundane reasons that Italian justice never seems to resolve anything. It's partly a question of meritocracy: in a land in which appointments are invariably made through nepotism rather than competence, it's perhaps inevitable that any investigation has holes in it and that decent lawyers are able to find them. A fair trial is often impossible because there's no jury (at least not in the sense that we understand the term) and there's no sense of sub judice: the juiciest bits have always been leaked to the press long before trial. The judiciary, no one really doubts it, is in desperate need of reform. The trouble is that the one man most desperate to reform it, the prime minister, is coincidentally the man most desperate to avoid it.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/04/amanda-knox-case-italy-justice

    Anyway, for what it is worth, from the evidence available in the media I always thought that they should be found not guilty as the case seems to have been bungled terribly. But that is going by the evidence available in the public sphere. Anybody from the outside the case saying anything categorical just sounds like an idiot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,949 ✭✭✭A Primal Nut


    Can anyone explain why the bedroom door was locked?

    The rolling stone theory doesnt mention it and i haven't seen a compelling answer for it?

    Maybe her room key was in the lock on the other side of the door? Or in Kercher's bag or somewhere easily visible in the room? Then Guede took it and locked it to give him more time before she would be found.

    I'm guessing obviously so sorry if you want a more certain reason. But regardless of who killed her I cant imagine any other way it could have been locked.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Tayla wrote: »
    It was great to see the photos of Amanda today at the airport heading home.

    Yes, great. Christ on a bike. I can understand people thinking she should be freed and that but ffs let's try to keep things in perspective Kercher will never be at the airport to come home. Let her slip away back to her family and friends and her no doubt rewarding exclusives and bookdeals etc, but we should me mindful of who the real victims in all of this are and temper the weird triumphalism.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭Yahew


    prinz wrote: »
    Yes, great. Christ on a bike. I can understand people thinking she should be freed and that but ffs let's try to keep things in perspective Kercher will never be at the airport to come home. Let her slip away back to her family and friends and her no doubt rewarding exclusives and bookdeals etc, but we should me mindful of who the real victims in all of this are and temper the weird triumphalism.

    There were three real victims. Kercher - killed by Guede. And Amanda Knox and bf, framed and locked up for 4 years. Two are no longer victims.


This discussion has been closed.
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