Charity - Concern

WooPeeA · 01-10-2011 11:56AM

Those people asking for donations get paid. It's not a charity work.

I prefer to do wire transfer to chosen by me charity myself or put few euros into the box in the local shop. At least I know where it's going and I know that it won't be spent on hundreds of salaries.

mickydoomsux · 01-10-2011 12:17PM

WooPeeA wrote: »

Those people asking for donations get paid. It's not a charity work.

Yeah, when you see jobs for "sales" advertised it can often be shilling for charities.

There's big money to be made in charity.

Show Time · 01-10-2011 12:21PM

Charity starts at home.

x_Ellie_x · 01-10-2011 04:23PM

I hate that charity and I'll never give money to them again. I used to give them €21 per month through a DD from my bank account but I had to cancel it when I was made redundant. As soon as they figured out I'd cancelled it, I got a very rude phone call from them. I explained to the bitch that I'd lost my job due to the recession & I couldn't afford to donate anymore but she just got ruder and ruder as the call went on until I just hung up on her. They have some fcuking cnuts and bastards working for them.

Esoteric_ · 01-10-2011 05:48PM

My boyfriend worked for Concern for a while, doing the door to door begging (sorry, charity collecting), and the reason they ask for a donation of 11 per month is because they are on commission.

Basically, they get 9 euro an hour basic wage. They have to get X amount of sign ups per week. A sign up has to be a minimum of 11 euro for it to 'count' as a sign up and for them to get their commission (if they get one sign up per day, their wage increases by 2 euro per hour for each day, so if they get one sign up on a Monday evening, they'll be paid 11 per hour instead of 9 per hour for that day).

Basically, you can offer 2 euro a month but they won't accept it because they need you to give 11 per month for them to get their sign up and keep them from being sacked basically.

I'm still paying them (payment coming out tomorrow actually), but am gonna cancel it soon.

Frynge · 01-10-2011 05:59PM

Should have asked if they were barnardos......

waited for the reply....

"no concern"

'me neither':D

rubadub · 01-10-2011 06:04PM

WooPeeA wrote: »

Those people asking for donations get paid. It's not a charity work.

Yeah, its big business. When people in consumer forums used to moan about shops charging a lot (because people pay it) I used to reply that thay are a business, not a charity. But that saying really doesn't have much meaning.

WooPeeA · 01-10-2011 07:45PM

From their website:

Concern Charity Trading Limited, a company limited by guarantee, registered in Ireland (company number 334436) with its registered offices at 52/55 Lower Camden Street, Dublin 2 (together, referred to as “Concern”).

It's not even a foundation.

ScissorPaperRock · 01-10-2011 08:41PM

If people are worried about where their money goes when they donate to these kinds of organisations maybe it's as important to look at the work being done as it is to look at salaries and commissions.

The development industry is not one where results are easily achieved. 50/60 years of international development aid shows us this. For me, it's important that the best, most qualified people are employed in this sector. It's not only about being charitable and everyone giving away what they can. It's about getting the job done.

lo0kash · 01-10-2011 10:00PM

OK, I'm going to cancel the DD and request all my details to be removed from their db. But I do want to support another charity organisation - I would appreciate any advice in choosing the right one.

AllAboutAoibh · 01-10-2011 10:21PM

How about:
The Rape Crisis Centre
The Simon Community
Childline
Samaritans
Barnardos
Console(Works with people bereaved by suicide and creates mental health awareness)
Meningitis Trust
Threshold.

Plenty of worthwhile charities at home OP, and in my opinion I think helping children, homeless people, and people with mental health issues is a great thing, as one can see the results of their help. Also, I think we have a lot of problems in our own country before we can be concerned with others...Ask what you can do for your country and all that... Just my two cents.

ScissorPaperRock · 01-10-2011 10:40PM

AllAboutAoibh wrote: »

Also, I think we have a lot of problems in our own country before we can be concerned with others....

Why? Are Irish lives more important? A person living within Irish borders should have more concern for another who lives inside the same borders?

Irish people have much more opportunity and assistance available to them than those in developing countries.

People in some of the poorest countries in the world have little to no opportunity to lift themselves out of the poverty trap into which they were born. Surely they are just as deserving of assistance.

AllAboutAoibh · 01-10-2011 10:46PM

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Why? Are Irish lives more important? A person living within Irish borders should have more concern for another who lives inside the same borders?

Irish people have much more opportunity and assistance available to them than those in developing countries.

People in some of the poorest countries in the world have little to no opportunity to lift themselves out of the poverty trap into which they were born. Surely they are just as deserving of assistance.

Nope, I'm not suggesting for a minute that our lives are more important. What a fanciful notion, we are all equal. I just think that a lot of people are oblivious to the divide between rich and poor in this country. It is not as obvious as that of developing countries, as it not advertised on our tv's 24/7. Even so much as dropping off a load of tinned food to your parish or anything like that, could go along way. In an ideal world, we'd solve everyone's poverty, but I'd settle for now, for making people aware of whats going on in their own localities.

Mike 1972 · 01-10-2011 11:12PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXQONELEhbE

:eek:

CoolHat · 01-10-2011 11:18PM

lo0kash wrote: »

Just signed a form to donate. But when the woman left my house I started to think about it and now I feel pretty annoyed because I realized how manipulated I was.... 1) I asked about online donating and she said its not possible and I can only donate by filling the form - totally not true 2) She asked to donate 11e - I asked where that figure came from but didnt get straight answer. Then she said if I donate 21e or more they will get another 18e from the government. I connected the dots later, 11 was only to make getting additional tenner easier! There is nothing about donating 11e on their website - there is another campaign about donating 7e.
Did anyone experienced anything similar? I feel a bit like a fool now:( I know they have to get money but is lying and manipulating people a proper way to do this? I will defo think twice next time someone from charity knocks to my door:(

So... She originally said 11. Then manipulated you up to donating 21euro?
sounds like that money is going into her backpocket. Partially if not all. I really think you should be using the word "con" rather than manipulating.

WooPeeA · 01-10-2011 11:49PM

lo0kash wrote: »

OK, I'm going to cancel the DD and request all my details to be removed from their db. But I do want to support another charity organisation - I would appreciate any advice in choosing the right one.

I always put some coins into a cancer charity box. Cancer is a hard disease. Can be painful, and very expensive to cure.

And there is no better donation than your own blood. You can get free chocolate with that one.

maygitchell · 01-10-2011 11:52PM

WooPeeA wrote: »

I always put some coins into a cancer charity box. Cancer is a hard disease. Can be painful, and very expensive to cure.

And there is no better donation than your own blood. You can get free chocolate with that one.

True that homes, or even better, platlets and bone marrow if you have big cohones

humbert · 01-10-2011 11:53PM

WooPeeA wrote: »

I always put some coins into a cancer charity box. Cancer is a hard disease. Can be painful, and very expensive to cure.

Yeah, and you have to fight those bastards on the street out to "support cancer/MS/Asthma"!

byhookorbycrook · 02-10-2011 12:47AM

humbert wrote: »

Yeah, and you have to fight those bastards on the street out to "support cancer/MS/Asthma"!

I have MS so can get away with saying this.Does anyone not think it's a bit mad to be doing sponsored walks for MS??If I could walk like that they wouldn't need to fundraise!!

maygitchell · 02-10-2011 12:52AM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I have MS so can get away with saying this.Does anyone not think it's a bit mad to be doing sponsored walks for MS??If I could walk like that they wouldn't need to fundraise!!

Ouch! used to do the readathon every year when I was younger!

murpho999 · 02-10-2011 01:30AM

TheZohan wrote: »

She's working as a rep with a professional fundraising company, they'll get your sign up money in commission along with your first months payment if you've completed a direct debit.

Concerns CEO was on €140,000 a few years ago plus expenses. Source.

I certainly wouldn't be donating my hard earned money to Concern.

My wife works for Concern. Works bloody hard too, using all her experience and education to get a difficult job done. Do people expect her to do that for nothing?

Do you expect the chief executive to work long hours for nothing? Do you realise what money a CEO could demand in a normal company?

If Concern did not pay CEO's or staff then they would not get the right experienced people they need to administer and run their programmes.

People seem to think that professional charities should be run completely by volunteers, and it just doesn't work like that.

If you look things up farther you'll see that salaries and admin costs make up only 1% of their donations which is a great achievement. Also I know from my wife's experiences that they are very cost conscious and appreciate where the money comes from and what its intention is.

CoolHat · 02-10-2011 01:52AM

murpho999 wrote: »

Speaking as someone whose spouse works in Concern I can confirm that Concern do not pay commissions to staff.
Also, do you expect the chief executive to work long hours for nothing? Do you realise what money a CEO could demand in a normal company?
If Concern did not pay CEO's or staff then they would not get the right experienced people they need to administer and run their programmes.
People seem to think that professional charities should be run completely by volunteers, and it just doesn't work like that.
If you look things up farther you'll see that salaries and admin costs make up only 1% of their donations which is a great achievement. Also I know from my wife's expereinces that they are very cost conscious and appreciate where the money comes from and what its intention is.

With no disrespect to you personally, you should live in the real world.

So I create a charity. I make myself CEO. I give myself anything from 30,000 -100,000 salary (obviously depending on how successful the charity may become)
I employ people to do the leg work. Their wages too come out of donations. Any advertisement, office space, electricty usage etc. Comes out of the donations. Obviously the size of a charity comes into play but you really saying all that only amounts to 1% of donations?! ... it dont mate.

Charity is a great business. Why work for someone else. Why create a regular business when you can create your own tax-free, biggest con of the world business. Its great

Its a great scam

from top to bottom

- from the charity worker who dips their fingers into the collection before handing over.
- to the team leader who 'collects' his share.
- then the CEO of the company takes his big fat wage out of those donations (which is all legal. gotta love that)
- And then when the money arrives in africa (or whatever) the local charity/recipient takes their share.

... then the little ol' people-in-need get whatever is left over.

lo0kash · 02-10-2011 10:18AM

CoolHat wrote: »

So... She originally said 11. Then manipulated you up to donating 21euro?
sounds like that money is going into her backpocket. Partially if not all. I really think you should be using the word "con" rather than manipulating.

Nope. She manipulated me saying 11 - that was only to "help" me decide to give a tenner more ("For only a tenner more we will get additional 18 from the government"). She didn't say I can donate whatever I want, she said 11 is a minimum - which is not true at all - there is a campaign on their website asking to danate 7 e a month. Also, what is more important, she lied to me saying donating on their website is not possible. I don't know how did you get "money going to her backpocket" from what I was saying.

murpho999 · 02-10-2011 11:34AM

CoolHat wrote: »

With no disrespect to you personally, you should live in the real world.

So I create a charity. I make myself CEO. I give myself anything from 30,000 -100,000 salary (obviously depending on how successful the charity may become)
I employ people to do the leg work. Their wages too come out of donations. Any advertisement, office space, electricty usage etc. Comes out of the donations. Obviously the size of a charity comes into play but you really saying all that only amounts to 1% of donations?! ... it dont mate.

Charity is a great business. Why work for someone else. Why create a regular business when you can create your own tax-free, biggest con of the world business. Its great

Its a great scam from top to bottom
- from the charity worker who dips their fingers into the collection before handing over.
- to the team leader who 'collects' his share.
- then the CEO of the company takes his big fat wage out of those donations (which is all legal. gotta love that)
- And then when the money arrives in africa (or whatever) the local charity/recipient takes their share.

... then the little ol' people-in-need get whatever is left over.

No disrespect to you either but you see your mistake is that you have over-simplified things in the way that bar-stool experts do.

I challenge you to go out and set up your own charity that can generate enough to simply pay you €100k.

It's not as simple as that. Concern is run as a professional organisation with internal structures, network and practices that you would find in other business. I guarantee that you will not be able to do it.

Yes, charities are run as a business but difference is that their aim is not to make profit for themselves but to fund their programmes.

If fund-raisers didn't get paid then donations don't get raised.

If CEO's and senior managers are not paid the going rate then their expertise, experience and vision would be lost to another organisation and the charity would not achieve anything.

The CEO doesn't just take what he wants but has a contractual agreement.

If they don't pay people reasonably then they will only have amateur volunteers who will carry out amateur work. It really is a very simple premise.

I'm sure there are some scam charities out there but I know Concern is not one of them. Their work does actually save lives and the organisation is very aware of it's responsibility with the donations received.

Also, the verified accounts are available on their website and I suggest you look at them.

Finally your comment about fund-raisers and collectors taking their share is totally wrong as you will never ever find Concern or most reputable NGO's collecting money on the street. It's not how they operate.

They prefer to donate via direct debit regularly rather than cash collections as they are very concious of hassling people.

For Forks Sake · 02-10-2011 11:41AM

CoolHat wrote: »

So I create a charity. I make myself CEO. I give myself anything from 30,000 -100,000 salary (obviously depending on how successful the charity may become) .

Are you Colm O'Gorman?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/one-in-four-head-colm-ogorman-earns-80k-a-year-495959.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/amnesty-cuts-six-jobs-as-income-hit-by-falling-donations-2326092.html

Sonnenblumen · 02-10-2011 11:54AM

murpho999 wrote: »

No disrespect to you either but you see your mistake is that you have over-simplified things in the way that bar-stool experts do.

I challenge you to go out and set up your own charity that can generate enough to simply pay you €100k.

It's not as simple as that. Concern is run as a professional organisation with internal structures, network and practices that you would find in other business. I guarantee that you will not be able to do it.

Yes, charities are run as a business but difference is that their aim is not to make profit for themselves but to fund their programmes.

If fund-raisers didn't get paid then donations don't get raised.

If CEO's and senior managers are not paid the going rate then their expertise, experience and vision would be lost to another organisation and the charity would not achieve anything.

The CEO doesn't just take what he wants but has a contractual agreement.

If they don't pay people reasonably then they will only have amateur volunteers who will carry out amateur work. It really is a very simple premise.

I'm sure there are some scam charities out there but I know Concern is not one of them. Their work does actually save lives and the organisation is very aware of it's responsibility with the donations received.

Also, the verified accounts are available on their website and I suggest you look at them.

Finally your comment about fund-raisers and collectors taking their share is totally wrong as you will never ever find Concern or most reputable NGO's collecting money on the street. It's not how they operate.

They prefer to donate via direct debit regularly rather than cash collections as they are very concious of hassling people.

Much of the charity industry has become bloated and many with multi layered internal management structures which require substantial funding to sustain. In my opinion this is waste, which is why a significant proportion of all donations is absorbed by administration and expenses.

The business case or model is rather uncomplicated but it is made so, by bureaucratic management systems and thinking.

WooPeeA · 02-10-2011 12:02PM

murpho999, under Irish law every foundation is obligated to publish their financial reports annually. Then we could see how much money did they collect and how was that money spent.

Why concern decided to register themselves as LTD company? Because LTD company doesn't have to publish anything!

If they're so honest, why don't they register as foundation? And what do they need so many companies registered in so many countries for? I think they've got like 3 companies using "Concern" name in Ireland alone.

WooPeeA · 02-10-2011 12:10PM

From the Independent.ie

On the salary front for example, Concern spent almost €13m on staffing costs alone and several of its key staff are on annual salaries in excess of €90,000. Chief Executive Tom Arnold is on a salary of just under €140,000, but insisted that he and others can justify their wages.

Source: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/top-charities-defend-fat-cat-ceo-salaries-1062042.html

murpho999 · 02-10-2011 12:29PM

WooPeeA wrote: »

murpho999, under Irish law every foundation is obligated to publish their financial reports annually. Then we could see how much money did they collect and how was that money spent.

Why concern decided to register themselves as LTD company? Because LTD company doesn't have to publish anything!

If they're so honest, why don't they register as foundation? And what do they need so many companies registered in so many countries for? I think they've got like 3 companies using "Concern" name in Ireland alone.

It's normal for companies to have subsiduary companies for different activities.

My understanding is that a foundation is an organisation that has money and just distributes it, eg Bill Gates Foundation, which uses Bills's Microsoft money and donates to different charities but has no actual operational activity, whereas the charity companies have operations on the ground that execute that money so they have to register as a company. Remember a company just gives an organisation a separate legal entity and does not always mean profit.

Ltd companies by the way are enforced by law to file accounts with Companies house and all of that info is viewable upon request.

There is nothing cloak and dagger going on that you are trying to make out.

Their annual report can be found Here

murpho999 · 02-10-2011 12:30PM

WooPeeA wrote: »

From the Independent.ie

Source: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/top-charities-defend-fat-cat-ceo-salaries-1062042.html

If they didn't spend that €13m then nothing would get done. It's a very simple concept.

Also is €140k excessive for a CEO? They often earn millions.

Charity - Concern

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