> 1000 HSE West Staff sick every day.

mikemac · 29-09-2011 08:33PM

The HSE bring in a lot of agency nurses who are paid by the hour. It's expensive to employ them.

And if you're losing so many office staff they might have temps employed. The administration has to be done. Like HSE West can't manage their payroll due to staff shortages then the unions would go mad and protest for the unpaid staff.

MagicMarker · 29-09-2011 08:36PM

woodoo wrote: »

Is it really costing 60 million? These staff are all salaried. There are no replacements for them when they are off. I can't see where this is costing an additional 60 million a year.

Most if not all the staff are being paid sick leave.

1100 staff sick per day, 365 days per year costing 60 million works out at on average €149.44 per sick person per day. Not to mention the possibility of people working overtime to cover shifts and generally everyone else picking up the slack.

Sounds about right to me.

woodoo · 29-09-2011 08:53PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

Most if not all the staff are being paid sick leave.

1100 staff sick per day, 365 days per year costing 60 million works out at on average €149.44 per sick person per day. Not to mention the possibility of people working overtime to cover shifts and generally everyone else picking up the slack.

Sounds about right to me.

A nurse will get paid say 45K for a years work. If they take 12 days off they will still cost the state 45K. Unless an agency nurse is brought in then there is no additional cost to the state.

MagicMarker · 29-09-2011 09:06PM

woodoo wrote: »

A nurse will get paid say 45K for a years work. If they take 12 days off they will still cost the state 45K. Unless an agency nurse is brought in then there is no additional cost to the state.

The state won't pay more money but they get less value for the money it does pay. That's how it's costing the state money, because it's paying for someone to do work that they're not doing.

woodoo · 29-09-2011 09:13PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

The state won't pay more money but they get less value for the money it does pay. That's how it's costing the state money, because it's paying for someone to do work that they're not doing.

If these people turned up the state would save nothing. Its not a productivity based industry. Most of the people who take a sick day will arrive in the next day with the work sitting on their desk waiting to be done by them. They will just have to work harder to clear the backlog. No money is lost in reality.

westendgirlie · 29-09-2011 09:16PM

woodoo wrote: »

If these people turned up the state would save nothing. Its not a productivity based industry. Most of the people who take a sick day will arrive in the next day with the work sitting on their desk waiting to be done by them. They will just have to work harder to clear the backlog. No money is lost in reality.

Does the sick person they were caring for just lie there and wait till they get back from their sickie?

woodoo · 29-09-2011 09:18PM

westendgirlie wrote: »

Does the sick person they were caring for just lie there and wait till they get back from their sickie?

No in reality the other staff will cover the essentials until they get back.

kincsem · 29-09-2011 09:22PM

Sort it out by "no work, no pay".

My guess is the distance the employee has to travel to work is an influence on "sickness".

I worked in the west years ago. One employee lived 20+ miles away, and was absent about 20% of the time. One of the following was sick: employee; employee's partner; child; car.

One night I called into the local chipper at 23:30 to get something to eat after my 08:00 to 23:30 day (unpaid overtime btw.) The employee was in the chipper with mates. The employees had been "sick" for days. Next day the employee was in work.

westendgirlie · 29-09-2011 09:26PM

So in reality. The person off sick is getting paid for doing nothing and the person who turned up is doing their own job and the off sick persons job.

Some amount of productivity will be lost. Which is a cost. Otherwise, they should layoff the sick person as there is no need for them.

woodoo · 29-09-2011 09:26PM

I'm not saying its OK btw i'm just querying this 60 million figure.

oldyouth · 29-09-2011 09:33PM

woodoo wrote: »

Is it really costing 60 million? These staff are all salaried. There are no replacements for them when they are off. I can't see where this is costing an additional 60 million a year.

Because if the work can function with systematic absenteeism, these people are not needed in the first place. Shed them and save €60m

woodoo · 29-09-2011 09:36PM

oldyouth wrote: »

Because if the work can function with systematic absenteeism, these people are not needed in the first place. Shed them and save €60m

In a black and white world maybe. You may bust yourself to catch up after an absence or people may go out of their way to help cover your absence. It doesn't mean they could do that indefinitely.

MagicMarker · 29-09-2011 09:37PM

woodoo wrote: »

If these people turned up the state would save nothing. Its not a productivity based industry. Most of the people who take a sick day will arrive in the next day with the work sitting on their desk waiting to be done by them. They will just have to work harder to clear the backlog. No money is lost in reality.

I really don't understand how you're not getting this tbh.

In reality, there are 401,500 days of work being paid for per year that are not being worked.

If as you say it's not costing the state any money then why exactly are we employing these people at a cost of 60 million per year when it doesn't make a difference if they show up or not?

Crazy Horse 6 · 29-09-2011 09:39PM

The figures are'nt that bad tbh

herosa · 29-09-2011 09:41PM

26 million in 6 months to cover locum docs alone.

http://www.thejournal.ie/hse-spent-almost-e26-million-on-locums-over-six-months-221254-Sep2011/

woodoo · 29-09-2011 09:44PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

I really don't understand how you're not getting this tbh.

In reality, there are 401,500 days of work being paid for per year that are not being worked.

If as you say it's not costing the state any money then why exactly are we employing these people at a cost of 60 million per year when it doesn't make a difference if they show up or not?

Its not as simple as that though. If a Secretary is employed working for a HSE dentist. Say he has only one secretary. She misses about 20 days in a particularly bad year. Are you saying he could do with out her altogether? Should the HSE decide to employ her for 20 less days next year because somehow they managed to get by. It really makes no financial difference.

gigino · 29-09-2011 09:57PM

herosa wrote: »

I dont really have an explanation for the office staff. I dont know.

its called public-servantitus. People who contract this condition demand more pay and pensions for less work, and generally think they are special compared to private sector workers, who do not pull as many sickies ( one day in 20 ! ) or get as many holidays or as much pay + pensions.

bamboozle · 30-09-2011 10:23AM

got a great laugh driving home yesterday evening from a care worker from Sligo hospital who rang in George Hook to defend the rate of absence.

her comical argument was that last week she worked a 12 hour shift, at the end of it she was very tired......George pressed her trying to make the point hard work & long hours might make you tired but not sick? she had no response.

A few questions i'd have liked to ask this worker;

Do you realise you getting paid for working 12 hours
Did you realise when you started the job that shift work was involved
do you realise that feeling tired is something lots of people feel after a days work
do you realise there are over 400,000 on the dole who'd quiet happily work your 12 hour shift.

Snakeblood · 30-09-2011 10:30AM

bamboozle wrote: »

got a great laugh driving home yesterday evening from a care worker from Sligo hospital who rang in George Hook to defend the rate of absence.

her comical argument was that last week she worked a 12 hour shift, at the end of it she was very tired......George pressed her trying to make the point hard work & long hours might make you tired but not sick? she had no response.

A few questions i'd have liked to ask this worker;

Do you realise you getting paid for working 12 hours
Did you realise when you started the job that shift work was involved
do you realise that feeling tired is something lots of people feel after a days work
do you realise there are over 400,000 on the dole who'd quiet happily work your 12 hour shift.

She didn't really have an argument. She was careful to say that she didn't go out sick. So while she sucked it up and went in after being tired, other people didn't go in after being tired and took it as a sick day and that was fine with her. Made no sense really.

suicide_circus · 30-09-2011 10:31AM

bamboozle wrote: »

got a great laugh driving home yesterday evening from a care worker from Sligo hospital who rang in George Hook to defend the rate of absence.

her comical argument was that last week she worked a 12 hour shift, at the end of it she was very tired......George pressed her trying to make the point hard work & long hours might make you tired but not sick? she had no response.

A few questions i'd have liked to ask this worker;

Do you realise you getting paid for working 12 hours
Did you realise when you started the job that shift work was involved
do you realise that feeling tired is something lots of people feel after a days work
do you realise there are over 400,000 on the dole who'd quiet happily work your 12 hour shift.

You'd be talking to the wall. I do shift work, long hours on my feet with some very short breaks between shifts. I am young, mid twenties, but I am essentially tired on a constant basis. I dont remember the last time I didnt feel tired. If I had a similar absence record to these people in hse west, I would be fired instanlt. No ifs, no buts.
However, if I worked in a job where I knew it was practically impossible for me to get sacked and the prevailing culture meant that sick leave was more or less viewed as part of my holiday entitlement structure and everyone else was doing it and I was protected by powerful public sector unions....then I can imagine myself taking a hell of a lot more sick days due to tiredness.

bamboozle · 30-09-2011 10:40AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

You'd be talking to the wall. I do shift work, long hours on my feet with some very short breaks between shifts. I am young, mid twenties, but I am essentially tired on a constant basis. I dont remember the last time I didnt feel tired. If I had a similar absence record to these people in hse west, I would be fired instanlt. No ifs, no buts.

completely agree, George was talking to someone who didnt see what the whole fuss was about, nor did she seem to reconcile her co-workers sickies were resulting in her days working being harder due to burden of covering for the sickies.

on radio this morning, Ennis Hospital has a 9% absence rate.

Raging_Ninja · 30-09-2011 02:43PM

Here's the thing, by definition people who are in hospitals are very sick, some extremely so.

If, for instance, a patient is on chemo, their immune system has been utterly destroyed. If they come into contact with somebody with something as minor as a bit of a cough, it could severely worsen their condition or even be fatal.

So I can understand nurses and the like taking a day or two off in order to ensure patients' safety.

Snakeblood · 30-09-2011 02:55PM

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Here's the thing, by definition people who are in hospitals are very sick, some extremely so.

If, for instance, a patient is on chemo, their immune system has been utterly destroyed. If they come into contact with somebody with something as minor as a bit of a cough, it could severely worsen their condition or even be fatal.

So I can understand nurses and the like taking a day or two off in order to ensure patients' safety.

Monday, April 20, 2009

A STARTLING 100,000 working days were lost in one month in the HSE due to absenteeism.

The unpublished HSE figures show the average absence rate for health service staff in January was 6.82% — almost double the private sector average.

The figure equates, on average, to just under a day per month per staff member, of which there are 113,000 in total. However, the average levels of non-attendance are eclipsed by some sections of individual hospitals and agencies, where absenteeism was far higher.

It is thought non-attendance at work costs the health services €150 million a year in replacement staff.

The one-month snapshot of January this year shows that, overall nationally, general support staff including porters, caterers and cleaners were absent at rates of almost 8% — more than twice the national average in the private sector.

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/story/Ireland/idsnqlcwgb/rss2/#ixzz1ZRa88Ik9

Raging_Ninja · 30-09-2011 03:04PM

Snakeblood wrote: »

Monday, April 20, 2009

A STARTLING 100,000 working days were lost in one month in the HSE due to absenteeism.

The unpublished HSE figures show the average absence rate for health service staff in January was 6.82% — almost double the private sector average.

The figure equates, on average, to just under a day per month per staff member, of which there are 113,000 in total. However, the average levels of non-attendance are eclipsed by some sections of individual hospitals and agencies, where absenteeism was far higher.

It is thought non-attendance at work costs the health services €150 million a year in replacement staff.

The one-month snapshot of January this year shows that, overall nationally, general support staff including porters, caterers and cleaners were absent at rates of almost 8% — more than twice the national average in the private sector.

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/story/Ireland/idsnqlcwgb/rss2/#ixzz1ZRa88Ik9

And these people also come into contact with patients every day.

MagicMarker · 30-09-2011 03:13PM

It's a hospital, everyone comes into contact sick people.

Snakeblood · 30-09-2011 03:15PM

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

And these people also come into contact with patients every day.

But if these people are out at 8% rates, then it makes sense that less nurses are taking time off, in order for the absentee rate overall to balance at 6.82%. So the Nurses, who are presumably decent judges of how sick they are, and would probably be more exposed to patients and disease, are coming in, and the porters, cleaners etc aren't.

FetchTheGin · 30-09-2011 03:17PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

It's a hospital, everyone comes into contact sick people.

Only the tenth time this has been pointed out. :rolleyes:

Have any statistics been released as to which departments are most guilty?

Raiser · 30-09-2011 04:46PM

These Fcukers sicken me - They don't deserve to have their jobs and certainly not on those salaries - Plenty of decent honest Folks out there would appreciate the work for a lesser, fair wage.

- They should look at absenteeism records for the past 12 moths and start firing the obvious abusers of the system

Minstrel27 · 30-09-2011 04:54PM

Stop paying people for sick days, problem solved.

30-09-2011 05:13PM

As for people being tired, sleep deprivation is a huge cause of human error. I'm sure the people saying 'I work a 12-hour shift' or 'I go into work when I'm sick' can't really connect the dots between mistake-prone health workers and things going wrong in the health service, or understand the implications of forcing health workers to turn up despite ailments (i.e. people end up dead).

Someone in the HSE told me recently she had to take annual leave when she's sick, because they're so afraid of getting sacked if they take the sick leave that they are legally entitled to.

> 1000 HSE West Staff sick every day.

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