> 1000 HSE West Staff sick every day.

Lando Griffin

More than 1,000 HSE staff call in sick every day in the HSE West region, costing taxpayers €5m a month, or €60m a year.
The figures were confirmed by the HSE's assistant national director for finance, Liam Minihan, who said that 1,100 staff -- or one in every 20 employees -- call in sick each day in a swathe of the country that stretches from Donegal to Limerick.
The revelation prompted HSE West chairman Padraig Conneely (FG) to remark: "I thought the sick people were in the hospitals, in the beds, but obviously, they are not. It is the people outside the hospitals, the workers, who are very sick."
"I think these people would get the door very quickly in the private sector."
HSE West regional director John_Hennessy admitted that the absenteeism rate "is too high" and said that a "comprehensive programme of absenteeism management" was under way.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/one-in-20-hse-west-staff-call-in-sick-every-day-2891310.html

I am lost for words and dont want to tar everyone with the same brush, but this is a disgrace and a shame to everyone in the Public Sector who just continue to milk the system and then complain when there over-generous extras are cut back a bit. Im telling you something, I nearly had swine flue last year and I still struggled into work, and just as well cos shortly afterwards everyone got it and the place nearly had to shut.
A disgrace.

mikom

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Im telling you something, I nearly had swine flue last year and I still struggled into work,

Nearly?

And how did he get stuck in your chimney?

herosa

Well. I know half the nurses are on stress sick leave because of work overload.I wonder who is making up the rest of the figures?

herosa

How do you nearly get swine flu? Is that not like being a little bit pregnant?

DrumSteve

Lando Griffin wrote: »

More than 1,000 HSE staff call in sick every day in the HSE West region, costing taxpayers €5m a month, or €60m a year.
The figures were confirmed by the HSE's assistant national director for finance, Liam Minihan, who said that 1,100 staff -- or one in every 20 employees -- call in sick each day in a swathe of the country that stretches from Donegal to Limerick.
The revelation prompted HSE West chairman Padraig Conneely (FG) to remark: "I thought the sick people were in the hospitals, in the beds, but obviously, they are not. It is the people outside the hospitals, the workers, who are very sick."
"I think these people would get the door very quickly in the private sector."
HSE West regional director John_Hennessy admitted that the absenteeism rate "is too high" and said that a "comprehensive programme of absenteeism management" was under way.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/one-in-20-hse-west-staff-call-in-sick-every-day-2891310.html

I am lost for words and dont want to tar everyone with the same brush, but this is a disgrace and a shame to everyone in the Public Sector who just continue to milk the system and then complain when there over-generous extras are cut back a bit. Im telling you something, I nearly had swine flue last year and I still struggled into work, and just as well cos shortly afterwards everyone got it and the place nearly had to shut.
It's A disgrace Joe.

FYP

General General

My head nearly fell off this morning, so I rang in sick.

Wile E. Coyote

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Im telling you something, I nearly had swine flue last year and I still struggled into work, and just as well cos shortly afterwards everyone got it and the place nearly had to shut.
A disgrace.

Op you had the potential for a good rant until that little gem just there.

cosmicfart

I nearly got run over by a car the other day but still made it into work. Nearly never won the race, or even ever happened. I sympathize with the nurses working in the HSE, very demanding job working around SICK people, is it any wonder they get sick themselves?

Totally blown out of proportion

mikemac

Lando Griffin wrote: »

The revelation prompted HSE West chairman Padraig Conneely (FG)

The issue with the health boards was politicians had influence and the connected people and their cronies got sweet jobs

The HSE was to be run by full time professionals and not amateurs and to eliminate all this, so the theory goes.

So why is the chairman a Fine Gael councillor from Galway City?

Gal pal

It's enough to make ya sick

Rented Mule

5% of their staff call in sick ?

That seems like a number that I could live with.

I suppose working around sick people all the time would tend to make you sick...

BrianJD

herosa wrote: »

Well. I know half the nurses are on stress sick leave because of work overload.I wonder who is making up the rest of the figures?

Maybe there wouldn't be a work overload if half were not out sick.

I don't agree with my statement there, just playing devils advocate.

Frank Black

Rented Mule wrote: »

5% of their staff call in sick ?

That seems like a number that I could live with.

So on average, a memeber of staff is out sick once every 20 days. Assuming about 230 working days a year - that would mean the average worker missing 11.75days off sick per year - and you think that's acceptable?

Maybe in the puiblic service, but in the real world if someone was taking that many sick days per year they wouldn't last very long.

hooradiation

Rented Mule wrote: »

5% of their staff call in sick ?

That seems like a number that I could live with.

Hence why they went with the more inflammatory "more than a thousand"

FetchTheGin

I was listening to Newstalk this morning and apparently most of the sick leave was from managers.

_feedback_

I'll tell ya what is shocking, and the figures don't even show it...



The amount of people who nearly called in sick :eek:

Rented Mule

black francis wrote: »

So on average, a memeber of staff is out sick once every 20 days. Assuming about 230 working days a year - that would mean the average worker missing 11.75days off sick per year - and you think that's acceptable?

Maybe in the puiblic service, but in the real world if someone was taking that many sick days per year they wouldn't last very long.

The average Irish worker gets 20 PTO per year (along with the bank holidays). I would completely expect them to use these days to cover their time missed.

With the above being said, I would also like to see a breakdown of these numbers. It is very easy to spread them across the entire system in the west and make it out that everyone is abusing the system, and I would find that hard to believe. How may people are on extended leave due to illness/injury ? You would probably find that this is going to take up a good percentage of those numbers.

hardCopy

Rented Mule wrote: »

5% of their staff call in sick ?

That seems like a number that I could live with.

Really? So in a company of 20 people you could cope with being a man down every day?

And you'd have scheduled holidays to manage on top of that, no wonder the organisation is crippled.

The_Minister

Rented Mule wrote: »

5% of their staff call in sick ?

That seems like a number that I could live with.

5% DAILY.

That is higher than it should be - think about it, do you get sick every 20 days? most people are sick maybe once a year (sick enough to be unable to work).

herosa

Some of their work is very physical ie bending,lifting pushing trolleys etc which would explain some injuries.It wouldnt explain the managers sick leave though. There is the winter vomiting bug which is so infectious it has them dropping like flies( and which isnt restricted to winter) They are not allowed to come back to work until they are so many days clear from that in case they infect patients. You would have to look at the causes. I would say its unlikely that they are ALL off sunning themselves in Tenerife.

Rented Mule

hardCopy wrote: »

Really? So in a company of 20 people you could cope with being a man down every day?

I had to when I was working in Dublin. One day per person, per month in Ireland seemed to be the average when I was running Servicedesks (in the private sector).

The_Minister wrote: »

5% DAILY.

That is higher than it should be - think about it, do you get sick every 20 days? most people are sick maybe once a year (sick enough to be unable to work).

Again, I would like to see the breakdown of the average age of these employees, and see if the number of people on long term leave due to sickness/injury.

Whenever I see numbers like this they are generally politically motivated and askew. You can make statistics say whatever you want them to. I would really like to see these numbers broken down a little better than a '1 in 20'.

--Kaiser--

I rang in to my work this morning, says to my boss I says "I can't come in, I'm sick"
"Hmmmm, right, how sick are you?" the scetical one asks
"Well, I'm in bed with my sister!" says I

herosa

LOL

mossyc123

cosmicfart wrote: »

I nearly got run over by a car the other day but still made it into work. Nearly never won the race, or even ever happened. I sympathize with the nurses working in the HSE, very demanding job working around SICK people, is it any wonder they get sick themselves?

Totally blown out of proportion

If that is the case then why aren't Junior Doctors calling in sick all the time?

Answer:

Because they are rarely on more then a 12-Month contract and constantly have to prove themselves worthy of another contract.

Lumbo

They should be sent to the doctor.


























Unless he's sick as well :pac:

hardCopy

Rented Mule wrote: »

I had to when I was working in Dublin. One day per person, per month in Ireland seemed to be the average when I was running Servicedesks (in the private sector).

The average is half that according to this survey of 635 companies employing a total of over 110,000 employees.

I do agree with you that averages can be misleading, I know people who work in the HSE and they certainly don't all take this many sick days, but clearly some are taking a lot.

herosa

mossyc123 wrote: »

If that is the case then why aren't Junior Doctors calling in sick all the time?

.

They are not at the bedside nearly as much as the care workers and probably dont handle bodily fluids as much eg empty bedpans,get vomited over etc.
That might explain some of it anyway.Also they dont have to physically lift patients,help unsteady ones to walk,push trolleys etc. You would have to look at every sick case on its own merits.

Jesus Wept

That's the average, there must be some who are running way above average, like 2x or more.

mikemac

All very well herosa but how many are office staff who have none of these excuses

I can understand the frontline staff getting hurt and injured.

But is it 11.75days off sick per year for the office staff too? Far too high.
And if HSE West is coping maybe the staff are not needed at all

herosa

I dont really have an explanation for the office staff. I dont know.

mikemac

Ah I wasn't expecting an answer

Just something I was thinking about

mossyc123

herosa wrote: »

They are not at the bedside nearly as much as the care workers and probably dont handle bodily fluids as much eg empty bedpans,get vomited over etc.
That might explain some of it anyway.Also they dont have to physically lift patients,help unsteady ones to walk,push trolleys etc. You would have to look at every sick case on its own merits.

They also get much better rest periods and healthier working hours then Junior Doctors I know but thats another argument altogether...

Also, how many people who are sick in hospital actually carry infectious diseases?

My general point is that people will take what they are entitled to take.

A lot of HSE staff seem to have a culture where calling in sick is accepted as the norm.

Junior Doctors work in a culture where you turn-up unless your arm is hanging off!

The ideal lies somewhere in the middle but there is no doubt which is better for keeping Public Sector costs down.

herosa

Maybe.Like I said you would have to look at every sick cert to see the causes. These sick certs are written by gps or consultants who know their patients best.Everybody else just has to sit back and wonder when the jammy fecker...I mean poor soul is coming back.

Lando Griffin

Just to clear things up......
Its not that I nearly had swine flu, more, had a dose of it but before it got too bad cleared up.

I am just looking around here and do you know what, not one in 11 of us have been sick in 2011 so bad that we cant work.

Rented Mule

The-Rigger wrote: »

That's the average, there must be some who are running way above average, like 2x or more.

This is the point that I was getting at. It is probably even more than that. You can't paint every employee with the same brush. There are probably some people who are on an extended leave due to illness/injury.

Whenever I hear someone speaking in terms of '1 in 20', I immediately think 'Fox News'.

bamboozle

herosa wrote: »

Maybe.Like I said you would have to look at every sick cert to see the causes. These sick certs are written by gps or consultants who know their patients best.Everybody else just has to sit back and wonder when the jammy fecker...I mean poor soul is coming back.

Am i suprised by this? no
Shocked? yes

had to endure nurses rep Liam Doran on newtalk this morning agressively shouting down the presenter while avoiding the absentism issue.

a side note re medical certs, i heard something on the radio last week where the dept of the environment make an additional payment of €11 (IIRC) to doctors for medical certs written to medical card holders, this is on top of the fee they receive for seeing the patient.

Wishbone Ash

Those figures would also include staff on sick leave due to assaults at work - common in the psychiatric and ID sectors. At the moment, we have 7 staff on long term sick leave due to serious assaults by patients. Their sick days are included in our overall figures

Riskymove

Rented Mule wrote: »

This is the point that I was getting at. It is probably even more than that. You can't paint every employee with the same brush. There are probably some people who are on an extended leave due to illness/injury.

Whenever I hear someone speaking in terms of '1 in 20', I immediately think 'Fox News'.

indeed, averages strike again

there are over 20,000 people involved

how many of an org that size do you think would be hit with a serious illness periodically.

I worked with a person who was out for over a year with treatment for cancer while I was not out at all

the average for the two of us was therefore 6 months sick leave each


the article also sensationalises it by describing it as 1100 people "ringing in" as if all sick leave is just on the odd day here and there and noone is on longterm illness

hardCopy

Rented Mule wrote: »

This is the point that I was getting at. It is probably even more than that. You can't paint every employee with the same brush. There are probably some people who are on an extended leave due to illness/injury.

Whenever I hear someone speaking in terms of '1 in 20', I immediately think 'Fox News'.

The problem is that the people who abuse this system are allowed to continue.

The HSE's HR policies need looking at.

nommm

I don't think doctors and nurses are even allowed to come into contact with patients if they have a cold so I can kind of understand why they're sick so often. I wonder if we reduced the ridiculous hours that they have to work, would they come into work more often.

Where To

nommm wrote: »

I don't think doctors and nurses are even allowed to come into contact with patients if they have a cold so I can kind of understand why they're sick so often. I wonder if we reduced the ridiculous hours that they have to work, would they come into work more often.

If we never let them LEAVE then the wouldn't be able to call in sick as much;)

_feedback_

nommm wrote: »

I wonder if we reduced the ridiculous hours that they have to work, would they come into work more often.

I was never great at maths, but I think if you reduce the hours, they come in less. :pac:

mikemac

Junior Doctors work 36 shifts, or at least they used to. Crazy hours

And from this thread nurses and other staff have a terrible absenteeism record

Liam Doran will suggest we give doctors pay to nurses so

mossyc123

mikemac wrote: »

Junior Doctors work 36 shifts, or at least they used to. Crazy hours

And from this thread nurses and other staff have a terrible absenteeism record

Liam Doran will suggest we give doctors pay to nurses so

Still happens, depending on what hospital/department you work in you could be on a normal 48 hr week or a nightmare 70-80 hr week!

But of course, we rarely hear about the difficulties of life as a Junior Doctor when the emotive "frontline staff" phrase is trotted out.

Nurses/Gardai/Care Staff are the only ones worthy of sympathy it seems...

herosa

I think its disgraceful how many hours they make a junior doc work.They take lorry drivers off the road if they go over their hours.You would think they would take junior docs off faster.
Maybe the reason is that junior docs only stay junior docs for a little while so the anger they feel fades as they pass up the ladder.Its like a poisonous baton they pass on to the next lot who get furious in turn then get over it when they move on.I think that might explain the apathy towards the issue.I think that if docs were told look you have to live with these terms and conditions until you were 65 it would have been sorted decades ago.
Its maybe viewed like a guards time in Templemore..aw sure it will pass.It doesnt make it right though or safe for the doc or his/her patients. I think when people express sympathy for the guards/nurses its for totally different reasons and also maybe because they know that their job isnt going to be very different ten years from now in most cases.

mossyc123

herosa wrote: »

I think its disgraceful how many hours they make a junior doc work.They take lorry drivers off the road if they go over their hours.You would think they would take junior docs off faster.
Maybe the reason is that junior docs only stay junior docs for a little while so the anger they feel fades as they pass up the ladder.Its like a poisonous baton they pass on to the next lot who get furious in turn then get over it when they move on.I think that might explain the apathy towards the issue.I think that if docs were told look you have to live with these terms and conditions until you were 65 it would have been sorted decades ago.
Its maybe viewed like a guards time in Templemore..aw sure it will pass.It doesnt make it right though or safe for the doc or his/her patients. I think when people express sympathy for the guards/nurses its for totally different reasons and also maybe because they know that their job isnt going to be very different ten years from now in most cases.

I've never heard a better phrase for it before

Sh!t flows downhill as the saying goes...

In fairness, there are more and more posts available which implement the Working Time Directive.

On the issue of Sick Days I believe that the vast majority of people won't take the p!ss with Sick Day entitlements if they are happy with how their workplace is run.

If Junior Doctors could get away with taking as many sick days as other staff they probably would, because from my experience many hospitals are pretty miserable places to work.

If I had to put up the level of administrative incompetency in some Hospitals I doubt i'd last too long... If I had a sick day get out clause i'd probably use it too.

Haelium

Well, working in a hospital around people with weak immune systems means that even a minor cold changes things.

MagicSean

Lando Griffin wrote: »

More than 1,000 HSE staff call in sick every day in the HSE West region, costing taxpayers €5m a month, or €60m a year.
The figures were confirmed by the HSE's assistant national director for finance, Liam Minihan, who said that 1,100 staff -- or one in every 20 employees -- call in sick each day in a swathe of the country that stretches from Donegal to Limerick.
The revelation prompted HSE West chairman Padraig Conneely (FG) to remark: "I thought the sick people were in the hospitals, in the beds, but obviously, they are not. It is the people outside the hospitals, the workers, who are very sick."
"I think these people would get the door very quickly in the private sector."
HSE West regional director John_Hennessy admitted that the absenteeism rate "is too high" and said that a "comprehensive programme of absenteeism management" was under way.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/one-in-20-hse-west-staff-call-in-sick-every-day-2891310.html

I am lost for words and dont want to tar everyone with the same brush, but this is a disgrace and a shame to everyone in the Public Sector who just continue to milk the system and then complain when there over-generous extras are cut back a bit. Im telling you something, I nearly had swine flue last year and I still struggled into work, and just as well cos shortly afterwards everyone got it and the place nearly had to shut.
A disgrace.

I had swine flu 2 years ago and I called in sick and didn't go into work. I don't feel bad about it. I'd rather cost the taxpayer a few days wages than risk spreading a dangerous and infectious disease to the whole Garda station.

Personally I think that people who go to work when they are sick aren't heroes. Not only do they risk spreading the illness but they also are more prone to making mistakes and are rarely as productive as usual. Rest plays a large part in recovery for almost all illness and injury. If you stay at home for two days and rest you could be 100% fit and healthy in a short while. If you push yourself and stress your body you're just prolonging your recovery.

If a person is sick and has a doctors cert to prove it I can't see why they should have anything to be ashamed of.

herosa

mossyc123 wrote: »

If I had to put up the level of administrative incompetency in some Hospitals I doubt i'd last too long... If I had a sick day get out clause i'd probably use it too.

Yeah you are right..thats why you hardly see an Irish nurse over 35 on the wards unless she is wearing white ie in doing a bit of agency. Otherwise people would look at her as if to say wtf? How are you still here? Why arent you in SJOG suffering with burnout or assorted psych illness like the rest of them?
Chin up Mossy c.I wont say you will look back on it and laugh but it WILL only be a crappy memory some day. Try not to let it change your personality too much and try and survive it without hitting the bottle or anyone else.! It would drive you crazy if you let it.

revell

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

I rang in to my work this morning, says to my boss I says "I can't come in, I'm sick"
"Hmmmm, right, how sick are you?" the scetical one asks
"Well, I'm in bed with my yr sister!" says I

FYP

to make it less sick