> 1000 HSE West Staff sick every day.

mikemac · 29-09-2011 03:19PM

Ah I wasn't expecting an answer

Just something I was thinking about

mossyc123 · 29-09-2011 03:27PM

herosa wrote: »

They are not at the bedside nearly as much as the care workers and probably dont handle bodily fluids as much eg empty bedpans,get vomited over etc.
That might explain some of it anyway.Also they dont have to physically lift patients,help unsteady ones to walk,push trolleys etc. You would have to look at every sick case on its own merits.

They also get much better rest periods and healthier working hours then Junior Doctors I know but thats another argument altogether...

Also, how many people who are sick in hospital actually carry infectious diseases?

My general point is that people will take what they are entitled to take.

A lot of HSE staff seem to have a culture where calling in sick is accepted as the norm.

Junior Doctors work in a culture where you turn-up unless your arm is hanging off!

The ideal lies somewhere in the middle but there is no doubt which is better for keeping Public Sector costs down.

herosa · 29-09-2011 03:31PM

Maybe.Like I said you would have to look at every sick cert to see the causes. These sick certs are written by gps or consultants who know their patients best.Everybody else just has to sit back and wonder when the jammy fecker...I mean poor soul is coming back.

Lando Griffin · 29-09-2011 03:44PM

Just to clear things up......
Its not that I nearly had swine flu, more, had a dose of it but before it got too bad cleared up.

I am just looking around here and do you know what, not one in 11 of us have been sick in 2011 so bad that we cant work.

Rented Mule · 29-09-2011 03:52PM

The-Rigger wrote: »

That's the average, there must be some who are running way above average, like 2x or more.

This is the point that I was getting at. It is probably even more than that. You can't paint every employee with the same brush. There are probably some people who are on an extended leave due to illness/injury.

Whenever I hear someone speaking in terms of '1 in 20', I immediately think 'Fox News'.

bamboozle · 29-09-2011 03:54PM

herosa wrote: »

Maybe.Like I said you would have to look at every sick cert to see the causes. These sick certs are written by gps or consultants who know their patients best.Everybody else just has to sit back and wonder when the jammy fecker...I mean poor soul is coming back.

Am i suprised by this? no
Shocked? yes

had to endure nurses rep Liam Doran on newtalk this morning agressively shouting down the presenter while avoiding the absentism issue.

a side note re medical certs, i heard something on the radio last week where the dept of the environment make an additional payment of €11 (IIRC) to doctors for medical certs written to medical card holders, this is on top of the fee they receive for seeing the patient.

Wishbone Ash · 29-09-2011 03:55PM

Those figures would also include staff on sick leave due to assaults at work - common in the psychiatric and ID sectors. At the moment, we have 7 staff on long term sick leave due to serious assaults by patients. Their sick days are included in our overall figures

Riskymove · 29-09-2011 03:58PM

Rented Mule wrote: »

This is the point that I was getting at. It is probably even more than that. You can't paint every employee with the same brush. There are probably some people who are on an extended leave due to illness/injury.

Whenever I hear someone speaking in terms of '1 in 20', I immediately think 'Fox News'.

indeed, averages strike again

there are over 20,000 people involved

how many of an org that size do you think would be hit with a serious illness periodically.

I worked with a person who was out for over a year with treatment for cancer while I was not out at all

the average for the two of us was therefore 6 months sick leave each

the article also sensationalises it by describing it as 1100 people "ringing in" as if all sick leave is just on the odd day here and there and noone is on longterm illness

hardCopy · 29-09-2011 03:59PM

Rented Mule wrote: »

This is the point that I was getting at. It is probably even more than that. You can't paint every employee with the same brush. There are probably some people who are on an extended leave due to illness/injury.

Whenever I hear someone speaking in terms of '1 in 20', I immediately think 'Fox News'.

The problem is that the people who abuse this system are allowed to continue.

The HSE's HR policies need looking at.

nommm · 29-09-2011 04:06PM

I don't think doctors and nurses are even allowed to come into contact with patients if they have a cold so I can kind of understand why they're sick so often. I wonder if we reduced the ridiculous hours that they have to work, would they come into work more often.

Where To · 29-09-2011 04:09PM

nommm wrote: »

I don't think doctors and nurses are even allowed to come into contact with patients if they have a cold so I can kind of understand why they're sick so often. I wonder if we reduced the ridiculous hours that they have to work, would they come into work more often.

If we never let them LEAVE then the wouldn't be able to call in sick as much;)

_feedback_ · 29-09-2011 04:09PM

nommm wrote: »

I wonder if we reduced the ridiculous hours that they have to work, would they come into work more often.

I was never great at maths, but I think if you reduce the hours, they come in less. :pac:

mikemac · 29-09-2011 04:14PM

Junior Doctors work 36 shifts, or at least they used to. Crazy hours

And from this thread nurses and other staff have a terrible absenteeism record

Liam Doran will suggest we give doctors pay to nurses so

mossyc123 · 29-09-2011 04:38PM

mikemac wrote: »

Junior Doctors work 36 shifts, or at least they used to. Crazy hours

And from this thread nurses and other staff have a terrible absenteeism record

Liam Doran will suggest we give doctors pay to nurses so

Still happens, depending on what hospital/department you work in you could be on a normal 48 hr week or a nightmare 70-80 hr week!

But of course, we rarely hear about the difficulties of life as a Junior Doctor when the emotive "frontline staff" phrase is trotted out.

Nurses/Gardai/Care Staff are the only ones worthy of sympathy it seems...

herosa · 29-09-2011 04:46PM

I think its disgraceful how many hours they make a junior doc work.They take lorry drivers off the road if they go over their hours.You would think they would take junior docs off faster.
Maybe the reason is that junior docs only stay junior docs for a little while so the anger they feel fades as they pass up the ladder.Its like a poisonous baton they pass on to the next lot who get furious in turn then get over it when they move on.I think that might explain the apathy towards the issue.I think that if docs were told look you have to live with these terms and conditions until you were 65 it would have been sorted decades ago.
Its maybe viewed like a guards time in Templemore..aw sure it will pass.It doesnt make it right though or safe for the doc or his/her patients. I think when people express sympathy for the guards/nurses its for totally different reasons and also maybe because they know that their job isnt going to be very different ten years from now in most cases.

mossyc123 · 29-09-2011 05:03PM

herosa wrote: »

I think its disgraceful how many hours they make a junior doc work.They take lorry drivers off the road if they go over their hours.You would think they would take junior docs off faster.
Maybe the reason is that junior docs only stay junior docs for a little while so the anger they feel fades as they pass up the ladder.Its like a poisonous baton they pass on to the next lot who get furious in turn then get over it when they move on.I think that might explain the apathy towards the issue.I think that if docs were told look you have to live with these terms and conditions until you were 65 it would have been sorted decades ago.
Its maybe viewed like a guards time in Templemore..aw sure it will pass.It doesnt make it right though or safe for the doc or his/her patients. I think when people express sympathy for the guards/nurses its for totally different reasons and also maybe because they know that their job isnt going to be very different ten years from now in most cases.

I've never heard a better phrase for it before

Sh!t flows downhill as the saying goes...

In fairness, there are more and more posts available which implement the Working Time Directive.

On the issue of Sick Days I believe that the vast majority of people won't take the p!ss with Sick Day entitlements if they are happy with how their workplace is run.

If Junior Doctors could get away with taking as many sick days as other staff they probably would, because from my experience many hospitals are pretty miserable places to work.

If I had to put up the level of administrative incompetency in some Hospitals I doubt i'd last too long... If I had a sick day get out clause i'd probably use it too.

Haelium · 29-09-2011 05:09PM

Well, working in a hospital around people with weak immune systems means that even a minor cold changes things.

MagicSean · 29-09-2011 05:09PM

Lando Griffin wrote: »

More than 1,000 HSE staff call in sick every day in the HSE West region, costing taxpayers €5m a month, or €60m a year.
The figures were confirmed by the HSE's assistant national director for finance, Liam Minihan, who said that 1,100 staff -- or one in every 20 employees -- call in sick each day in a swathe of the country that stretches from Donegal to Limerick.
The revelation prompted HSE West chairman Padraig Conneely (FG) to remark: "I thought the sick people were in the hospitals, in the beds, but obviously, they are not. It is the people outside the hospitals, the workers, who are very sick."
"I think these people would get the door very quickly in the private sector."
HSE West regional director John_Hennessy admitted that the absenteeism rate "is too high" and said that a "comprehensive programme of absenteeism management" was under way.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/one-in-20-hse-west-staff-call-in-sick-every-day-2891310.html

I am lost for words and dont want to tar everyone with the same brush, but this is a disgrace and a shame to everyone in the Public Sector who just continue to milk the system and then complain when there over-generous extras are cut back a bit. Im telling you something, I nearly had swine flue last year and I still struggled into work, and just as well cos shortly afterwards everyone got it and the place nearly had to shut.
A disgrace.

I had swine flu 2 years ago and I called in sick and didn't go into work. I don't feel bad about it. I'd rather cost the taxpayer a few days wages than risk spreading a dangerous and infectious disease to the whole Garda station.

Personally I think that people who go to work when they are sick aren't heroes. Not only do they risk spreading the illness but they also are more prone to making mistakes and are rarely as productive as usual. Rest plays a large part in recovery for almost all illness and injury. If you stay at home for two days and rest you could be 100% fit and healthy in a short while. If you push yourself and stress your body you're just prolonging your recovery.

If a person is sick and has a doctors cert to prove it I can't see why they should have anything to be ashamed of.

herosa · 29-09-2011 05:15PM

mossyc123 wrote: »

If I had to put up the level of administrative incompetency in some Hospitals I doubt i'd last too long... If I had a sick day get out clause i'd probably use it too.

Yeah you are right..thats why you hardly see an Irish nurse over 35 on the wards unless she is wearing white ie in doing a bit of agency. Otherwise people would look at her as if to say wtf? How are you still here? Why arent you in SJOG suffering with burnout or assorted psych illness like the rest of them?
Chin up Mossy c.I wont say you will look back on it and laugh but it WILL only be a crappy memory some day. Try not to let it change your personality too much and try and survive it without hitting the bottle or anyone else.! It would drive you crazy if you let it.

revell · 29-09-2011 05:34PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

I rang in to my work this morning, says to my boss I says "I can't come in, I'm sick"
"Hmmmm, right, how sick are you?" the scetical one asks
"Well, I'm in bed with my yr sister!" says I

FYP

to make it less sick

westendgirlie · 29-09-2011 06:30PM

MagicSean wrote: »

If a person is sick and has a doctors cert to prove it I can't see why they should have anything to be ashamed of.

Doctors certs are a farce. Had a fella off work. He would send in his sick cert and it would state he was not fit for work. The reason listed was "headache".

After week 4 of certs I questioned him about the headaches and asked would his doctor advise if he was fit for other duties at work. He took great offence to me asking for further info even though his employer is entitled to ask. He handed in his notice the week after and started a new job! IMHO.... He wasn't sick at all.

Oh, and I can't afford to be sick. If I'm not in, I don't get paid or its taken out of my holiday entitlement.

MagicSean · 29-09-2011 06:45PM

westendgirlie wrote: »

Doctors certs are a farce. Had a fella off work. He would send in his sick cert and it would state he was not fit for work. The reason listed was "headache".

After week 4 of certs I questioned him about the headaches and asked would his doctor advise if he was fit for other duties at work. He took great offence to me asking for further info even though his employer is entitled to ask. He handed in his notice the week after and started a new job! IMHO.... He wasn't sick at all.

If you think his doctor was lying then report him.

westendgirlie wrote: »

Oh, and I can't afford to be sick. If I'm not in, I don't get paid or its taken out of my holiday entitlement.

You get paid by the social welfare.

westendgirlie · 29-09-2011 06:55PM

MagicSean wrote: »

If you think his doctor was lying then report him.

You get paid by the social welfare.

Point 1 - it would be very difficult to prove he didn't have a headache. I asked him to get his doctor to advise as to whether he was fit to do other, lighter duties. Rather than get this info he handed in his notice. Gut instinct says he was making it up.

Point 2 - if you are off sick, you don't get paid by anybody for the first 3 days. In the private sector you don't have specially assigned sick day allowance either.

invinciblePRSTV · 29-09-2011 07:57PM

This is obviously just some guy on the internet talking so you don't have to believe me but I have relations who've worked in various sections of the HSE, according to them sick leave is used and abused and taking it is seen as an entitlement by staff members. EG they have a certain amont of sick leave and don't have to account for it with sick notes, so of course they'll take it.

Then of course there's the other thorny issue, nepotism in the HSE, apparently it's chronic.

Wishbone Ash · 29-09-2011 08:03PM

MagicSean wrote: »

You get paid by the social welfare.

Depends on one's RSI category.

herosa · 29-09-2011 08:12PM

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

This is obviously just some guy on the internet talking so you don't have to believe me but I have relations who've worked in various sections of the HSE, according to them sick leave is used and abused and taking it is seen as an entitlement by staff members. EG they have a certain amont of sick leave and don't have to account for it with sick notes, so of course they'll take it.

Then of course there's the other thorny issue, nepotism in the HSE, apparently it's chronic.

I believe you.The HSE is a massive organisation with every personality type under the sun working in it. I would say there are loads of people like that.

gigino · 29-09-2011 08:28PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I suppose working around sick people all the time would tend to make you sick...

except health sector workers in ither countries do not have as high absentieism rates.

Another example of our public servants swinging the lead. Lets face it, the sector is ON AVERAGE overpaid and underworked.

gigino · 29-09-2011 08:30PM

Haelium wrote: »

Well, working in a hospital around people with weak immune systems means that even a minor cold changes things.

the office staff in the HSE have as high an sickie rate as the nurses - which is way higher than the private sector.

woodoo · 29-09-2011 08:30PM

Is it really costing 60 million? These staff are all salaried. There are no replacements for them when they are off. I can't see where this is costing an additional 60 million a year.

herosa · 29-09-2011 08:33PM

woodoo wrote: »

Is it really costing 60 million? These staff are all salaried. There are no replacements for them when they are off. I can't see where this is costing an additional 60 million a year.

Agency staff can be brought in to replace nurses sometimes.

> 1000 HSE West Staff sick every day.

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