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Accreditation for first Aid courses

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Comments

  • #32
    BoonDoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 82 ✭✭BoonDoc


    TylerIE wrote: »
    Good for you!

    If ever ya need medical assistance make sure to tell that to the Paramedic or Advanced Paramedic Responding!

    They have a little box on their form that they can fill in if you'd prefer the doctor, if they do that they can leave you in peace.

    After all, it would be terrible for you to be stuck with a Paramedic of only two years training or an AP of 5+ years experience and training when ya could have a doctor!

    Being a doctor does not mean you are the best option for an accident. There are plenty of Gastro/Ortho/OB/Psychiatry docs out there who would not have a clue how to assess and treat an accident scene.

    The Paramedics and Advanced Paramedics do this on a daily basis and provide excellent pre hospital care that FAR EXCEEDS what the average doctor can offer.


  • #33
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,306 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    ^ not according to Phecc anyways.

    They consider the registered nurse and registered practitioner to above a P and a AP in clinical status.


    And unfair to say that many doctors would be useless in an emergency. While the GP who hasn't intubated in many years might not be the best option in an emergency but most doctors would be an extremely useful asset in an emergency situation. The same again can be said for nurses too.


  • #34
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,483 ✭✭✭miju


    Where in PHECC does it say that pre hospital a nurse is a higher clinical level than an AP?


  • #35
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,306 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    miju wrote: »
    Where in PHECC does it say that pre hospital a nurse is a higher clinical level than an AP?


    According to two AP examiners from phecc I know.

    Generally the idea is according to them is that you cannot hand over a patient to a lower clinical level. I.E EMT/P/AP ----> RGN/RP

    However the handover cannot go the other way if you know what I mean.


    A nurse would want to be a higher clinical level or of equal status compared to the AP after a 4 year degree and then a masters as many nurses undertake.


  • #36
    BoonDoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 82 ✭✭BoonDoc


    BX 19 wrote: »
    And unfair to say that many doctors would be useless in an emergency.

    Generally your statement is completely accurate, but my point is that a lot of doctors don't do trauma. They spend decades in specialties that don't require trauma knowledge.

    Case in point:
    I was out in the remote parts of North America when someone fell forty feet down a tree. He had a nice tib/fib fracture. I responded and started assessment and treatment. About twenty minutes into it a guy comes up and says that he is a doctor.
    I quickly said that this patient is now his as he is the highest medically trained person there.
    He backed away and said that as an oncologist he has not seen trauma in several decades.

    I made is quite clear that the patient was definitely his but I was happy enough to run the trauma and package him up ready for the helicopter. The doctor was relieved that I was there to treat the trauma casualty.

    This doctor knew his abilities and his shortcomings and delegated treatment to me. That really makes for a great medical leader.

    I have worked with doctors who knew as little about trauma as the oncologist who refused to acknowledge that he was way over his head. The trauma went really poorly.


    Two sides of the coin.


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  • #37
    Tango Alpha 51
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 437 ✭✭Tango Alpha 51


    BX, we routinely get handovers from nursing staff whilst doing discharges, inter hospital transfers etc.


  • #38
    NeitherJohn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 628 ✭✭✭NeitherJohn


    Nurses and doctors have completely seperate registrations to EMT/P/AP. An Bord Altranais and IMC for the former, and PHECC for the latter.


  • #39
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,483 ✭✭✭miju


    BX 19 wrote: »
    Generally the idea is according to them is that you cannot hand over a patient to a lower clinical level. I.E EMT/P/AP ----> RGN/RP

    You can hand over to a lower clinical level if that person has particular skill / speciality


  • #40
    Bang Bang
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 774 ✭✭✭Bang Bang


    miju wrote: »
    You can hand over to a lower clinical level if that person has particular skill / speciality

    Exactly.
    As in PHECC 3rd edition CPG's 'A Paramedic is authorised to maintain an infusion in the absence of and Advanced Paramedic or Doctor'.

    As in an Advanced Paramedic or Doctor can start an infusion of normal saline then hand over to a Paramedic.

    An Advanced Paramedic can also hand over to a Paramedic if they deem that a patient doesn't require any advanced interventions.


  • #41
    TylerIE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,635 ✭✭✭TylerIE


    BoonDoc wrote: »
    Being a doctor does not mean you are the best option for an accident. There are plenty of Gastro/Ortho/OB/Psychiatry docs out there who would not have a clue how to assess and treat an accident scene.

    The Paramedics and Advanced Paramedics do this on a daily basis and provide excellent pre hospital care that FAR EXCEEDS what the average doctor can offer.


    I agree that P's / APs provide excellent care, hence my post was to highlight the other poster seeming to prefer to disregard this. Having thought about it EVERY A&E Consultant I know would be great pre-hospital but in turn they all show great respect to the ambulance crews they meet.
    jimdeans wrote: »
    Listen mate. You've obviously got some chip on your shoulder, so I'm going to leave you to it. It reflects bad publicly on your profession and there's no point in making it look worse.

    Thanks to everyone for the useful advice.

    I wasnt going to clarify as the topic seemed dead and I didnt want to drag it, however seeing as other comments were made I better clarify. I do not represent any professions in the statement I made.

    However to any PHECC regd Practitioner, please accept my apologies if you feel my comments reflected poorly on you in your profession. Its intent was to offer the poster an alternative option for care, as despite being in the ES Forum, I felt (perhaps wrongly) that he didnt have much respect for P's / APs.


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  • #42
    BoonDoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 82 ✭✭BoonDoc


    TylerIE wrote: »
    Having thought about it EVERY A&E Consultant I know would be great pre-hospital

    Although I agree completely, how well would the A&E consultants adapt to practising medicine in the pelting rain with little of few medical supplies?

    I would not want anyone else working on my wounds than the best A&E consultants. They really are good at what they do.

    My question is how reliant are they on their kit? How well could they work without it?


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