Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
Accreditation for first Aid courses
-
14-09-2011 11:28am#1Hi.
Question about getting first aid training done, if this is the right place.
Basically, what's needed?
My job have been talking about it. They're conidering getting a morning or a one day course in CPR/defibrillation done. We'll punt it up higher to the H+S people, but I've a feeling I might end up having to organise it for my lab group!
Sorry for the very basic question, but is there any legal framework surrounding providing this type of training. Can I just go to a few companies and see who I like best/are the most competetive and get them in?
Or do they have to be accredited to various regulatory bodies in order to provide corporate training? I think (not sure, I'm new to having a supervisory role) that we have a legal requirement to do this type of training. Does any course fulfil the legal requirement or only some courses?
What's to stop me going to my group of mates who are A+E/ICU doctors and asking them will they teach us, if I throw them a few quid.
Does anyone know any good sites with this kind of info? Many thanks for your time in advance
0
Comments
-
-
-
-
NeitherJohn wrote: »All AED/CFR training is regulated by PHECC. You can only teach the course if you yourself or the organisation which has trained you have been given approval by PHECC.
Personally, I wouldn't attend a course by someone who couldn't produce evidence of accreditation.
I'm not sure of the legal aspect but I would go for PHECC accredited. If in the unfortunate situation someone brought a legal case against you for incorrect administration of CPR or use of AED, then the fact you did a course through a PHECC registered institute would stand better to you than if you did a course in some random hall with a cowboy.
If you could be a little more accurate with your location (your postcode would be fine), I can PM you the contact details of the nearest St. John Ambulance division who can discuss the course with you.
Dublin city centre is where most of us are based most of the time.
I find it bizarre that I'm not legally allowed to get some A+E/ICU docs in to teach us some basic first aid, though. Very Irish. Another reason for me to question coming back
Anyway, I'll do whatever we have to do to tick the box, so I'll have a look at johns ambulance and red cross sites.
Many thanks
0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
Hightower21 wrote: »1st of all if its for your workplace / office/ lab/ site you must have an occupational first aider (OFR). This is set in stone by the Health and safety and workplace act. If you have a larger company you need more than 1. part of that course deals with CFR and AED's.
These OFR's must complete training every 3 years. It is laid down in the law who can instruct. there are plenty of comapnys out there that do this.
A & E Doctors or most docs for that matter are not qualified to insrtuct at OFA standard or are most health professionals (paramedics included) unless they have done an instructors course.
If its for yourself try and do an EFR course - Emergency First course. This is about 5-6 days to complete but its a very rewarding course in which you get to learn loads.
So OFA (occupational first aid?) is the way to go. Thank you I'll talk to my boss about getting that sorted. Thank you 0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
Not only PHECC, IHF also and if its a hospital related setting then the courses done are more than likely BLS (be it heartsaver or HCP) that are delivered....which are IHF/AHA courses.....
There is no OFA course....there are companies who run a "course" but in the end all there is, is an exam the only pre req of which is CFR-I. €600 and you can be an OFA instructor. To be honest OFA instructors carry no weight in pre hospital circles if they are not at least EFR instructors or at least practicing practitioners.
THe EFR (Emergency First Responder course is a great course, however it can be pretty expensive.
O/P - Give us an idea of where you work and how many are in your area.
Have a look at this for H & S guidelines (Page 72)
A one day CFR/BLS course would be very beneficial but OFA is the legal requirement.....however I bet your company is well within H&S guidelines in regards OFA trained persons. CFR/BLS is a nice compliment for OFA trained persons and covers a nice bit in one day.
Many thanks, that's very helpful.
basically our health and safety person is on holidays, and I've been told in my new supervisory role that A) we have people who need refresher courses and
Our two "first aid accredited people" (who did a course a year ago) who I supervise will be leaving the job in the next 12 months.
Therefore, I've been asked to have a look at course costs etc. But the H+S person is back next week and will know the legislative stuff. I'm just trying to get a headstart and to familiarise myself with this, as my dept with pay some of the cost.
I work close to central dublin. There would be 80 people in the company (more or less). Most of them would be in 2 neighbouring buildings and there are 20 people in my lab.
Would you be able to elaborate on "There is no OFA course....there are companies who run a "course" but in the end all there is, is an exam the only pre req of which is CFR-I." please? I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Thanks again for the info.0 -
-
-
-
I never said anything about a vol first aider......I mean a practicing Pre Hospital practitioner.
Ask your mates how many times a year they, themselves provide resus.....if they answer correctly it will more than likely be one or a handful of times....before the Nursing staff take over:)
My partner is a registrar and has done zillions of intubations and a world of CPR. She hardly mentions it to me now, it's so common. I've even seen her do it in public. Though when she's "team leader" at a resus she just watches and co-ordinates.
I think it would be a conflict of interest to hire her though
Anyway, that's good info from NGA and will give me some reading to do.0 -
I finished an OFA course today with St. John's Ambulance, it cost €300 for a 3 day course including exams- 9:00-5:00 for 3 days. The course was interesting and the instructors were excellent. Highly Recommended
As said above, its probably better to do an accredited standardised course rather than an ad hoc instruction from medical friends if only to cover yourself legally0 -
What i meant was that these guys have their A+E/ICU/anaesthetics consultant qualifications and have done more CPR in a month etc than most st john's ambulance guys will do in their life (I was in the red cross as a teenager for a good few years and never did it or saw it being done).
But I presume the regulatory body would want them to go on a course or something, assessed by people who've mostly done less resuscitation than them.
Anyway, it's not something I feel strongly enough about to kick up over. I just think it's quite Irish.
It doesn't matter if the people who are giving the course have done less CPR than a doctor/nurse. If they were seen fit to pass the accredited instructor course, then they are fit to teach anybody.
I've done CPR twice in the last three years. Both patients left the care of the team I was part of with good cardiac output, something they didn't have when we got to them.
We practice CPR every other night during training at St. John. It's as good as the real thing. 0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
Again, I am not having a go at anybody here but there are a few comments I feel I must comment on.NeitherJohn wrote: »It doesn't matter if the people who are giving the course have done less CPR than a doctor/nurse. If they were seen fit to pass the accredited instructor course, then they are fit to teach anybody.
This is correct. The title of the thread is "Accreditation for first Aid courses" it makes no reference to who delivers the best course etc. From the "legal" point of view all the auditors or Health & Safety people will look for is your name on a cert from an awarding body. Receiving the course from St Johns, Paramedic, Nurse, Doctor on indeed God himself will not get you additional brownie points.Your consultant buddies can easily become first aid instructors. They just have to be assessed on teaching methods.
Instructor courses are there to ensure that
1- everybody teaches of the same hymn sheet
2- The instructors can teach.
Remember, it is not a requirement that an potential instructor sits an instructor course. Take OFA for example, all that is required is that the person has received a merit or better in their own course, and is a Cardiac First Responder Instructor.
Technically the people have to submit the teaching material to OFAAA before they do the assessment. There is no prescribed teaching material such as that available through the IHF or PHECC. So instructors do not always "teach of the same hymn sheet" so to speak.An ICU doctor may have NO knowledge of how to operate without equipment and outside a hospital. .
I would have to strongly disagree with that. Firstly we are not talking about (with all due respect) dentists or old school GP's who haven't taken part in a resus in years and years. We are talking about some of the most qualified healthcare professionals in the country. It is a medical specialty! Do you mean to say, that becuase they are not surrounded by all the life support equipment or invasive monitoring stations that they suddenly forget how to deliver 30 compressions and 2 breaths? Given the fact that it takes many many years of college, clinical placements, professional developement, etc etc before they get to that position?They probably do not know what a member of the public can legally do and cannot do.
How do you figure that? It is the job of the doctors (and indeed the nurses too) to receive casualties from pre-hospital providers and off the street. Do you think that when they hear a casualty has come in that they have absoubtly no idea what treatments may have been done? Or what treatments should have been done given the casualties situation. Ask some paramedics and they will tell you that some hospital staff are very quick to pick up on things that should have been done before arrival at hospital. Even though it may not always be possible.As stated above they rarely have to do CPR themselves as they would usually be team leader. Some doctors do decide to become instructors, and they too have to do basic CPR courses in order to qualify as instructors, or to do their advanced life support courses - I know as Iv thought many of them.
As I mentioned earlier Heart Foundation training is generally favoured in hospital settings. For A&E, ICU, CCU etc they will complete an ACLS course. As part of this course they will do a basic life support assessment. This is done every 2 years. As well as that they will also have an RTO in the department. That persons job is to ensure that during a resus everybody is doing their job perfectly and is capable of doing everybody elses job. This is done on an on-going basis.Iv seen "courses" where nurses were giving first aid training saying you suction this and put in an airway etc... Forgetting that they wont be outside hospital. And this was from amazingly good CCU and Medical Ward nurses, who were (rightfully) considered to be excellent at nursing.
That may have been appropiate depening on the class they were teaching. Remember, EFR carries out those skills. The new CFR advanced will also teach these skills. Perhaps they were explaining what they ambulance crew would do when they arrive and take over?Many experienced members of the voluntary organisations will report on Doctors stopping them touching a patient as they think first aiders can only do bandaging and CPR, and others will report doctors taking the lead from members of vols or HSE/DFB Medics.
Perhaps they stop them because they have had encounters with a particular organisation, unit etc and they have formed an opinion good, bad or otherwise. Maybe why some doctors stand off is because they know their training is very outdated and are not that comfortable joining in. Perhaps the doctor is happy enough to leave you "work away" provided you are doing your job correctly.Teaching anything properly requires skill and practice. The OFAAA who registers Occupational First Aid instructors recognizes existing medical qualifications, but you must show them that you are able to teach.
OFAAA do not recognise any pre-existing training whatsoever. The procedure to become an instructor is the same regardless. You submit your lesson plans and powerpoint before hand. Pay your assessment fees. Called for assessment. Asked to present 1 or 2 lessons, maybe demonstrate a few skills. And then you are deemed qualified or not. Simple as.Finally if you were to "throw your mates a few quid" that would make it worth their while, it would probably be cheaper to get a fleet of SJA ambulances and crews in to teach it.
Why is this an advantage? Are you implying that all ambulance crew are instructors? That all ambulance crew would be capable of delivering the course? Do you mean to say that because its cheaper it is better? 0 -
Remember, it is not a requirement that an potential instructor sits an instructor course. Take OFA for example, all that is required is that the person has received a merit or better in their own course, and is a Cardiac First Responder Instructor.
Technically the people have to submit the teaching material to OFAAA before they do the assessment. There is no prescribed teaching material such as that available through the IHF or PHECC. So instructors do not always "teach of the same hymn sheet" so to speak.
Your correct they dont have to sit an instructor course, I meant instructor assessment.
They are expected to teach to the OFA Syllabus (which doesnt include oxygen, suction etc)
The documentation they submit for their assessment must cover the same course material as the OFA syllabus.
The OFAAA occasionally (in theory) inspect classes to ensure they are being run in line with current guidelines.I would have to strongly disagree with that. Firstly we are not talking about (with all due respect) dentists or old school GP's who haven't taken part in a resus in years and years. We are talking about some of the most qualified healthcare professionals in the country. It is a medical specialty! Do you mean to say, that becuase they are not surrounded by all the life support equipment or invasive monitoring stations that they suddenly forget how to deliver 30 compressions and 2 breaths? Given the fact that it takes many many years of college, clinical placements, professional developement, etc etc before they get to that position?
I beg to differ - its a differing environment. Theres more to teaching a course than 30 compressions and two breaths. Many healthcare providers are still only being updated to Guidelines 2010. Obviously we can expect consultants to be familar with these. We cant expect hospital staff to be familiar with the PHECC CFR programme as hospital staff will use the IHF HCP/HS programme. We do the BLS for HCP version of the CFR-P, and I find hospital staff (of all levels) cannot grasp that the guidelines dont include Warfarin as a contraindication for Aspirin administration. It reminds me of how hospital staff are often obsessed with not giving COPD patients too much oxygen, so think we are crazy teaching EFRs to give 100% o2. The idea behind many of the changes to the AHA guidelines is simplicity - if we were to start throwing loads of Ifs ands and But's into basic courses then lay rescuers would be afraid to do anything.
In hospital there are also teams so that various actions can be done simultaneously, manual defibrillators are used, etc. How does that translate to the out of hospital setting and AED use vs manula defib?
I can think of a few instances of hospital staff fumbling when equipment failed, but if I list them Il sound critical (and Im not, its just facts that pre-hospital and in hospital are different). From a first aid perspective there is a lot more to first aid then CPR.How do you figure that? It is the job of the doctors (and indeed the nurses too) to receive casualties from pre-hospital providers and off the street. Do you think that when they hear a casualty has come in that they have absoubtly no idea what treatments may have been done? Or what treatments should have been done given the casualties situation. Ask some paramedics and they will tell you that some hospital staff are very quick to pick up on things that should have been done before arrival at hospital. Even though it may not always be possible.
I dont need to ask paramedics, Iv did enough handovers myself. They now expect Ambulance crews to have a certain level done - but that doesnt mean they know the exact details of what OFA, EFR or CFR can do. I dont even know off the cuff whats OFA vs EFR vs EMT(without looking at CPGs, which I do before classes) and I occasionally teach OFA and CFR. PHECC even recognised this and released a document a few years ago for hospital staff, to show them what different practioners can do.As I mentioned earlier Heart Foundation training is generally favoured in hospital settings. For A&E, ICU, CCU etc they will complete an ACLS course. As part of this course they will do a basic life support assessment. This is done every 2 years. As well as that they will also have an RTO in the department. That persons job is to ensure that during a resus everybody is doing their job perfectly and is capable of doing everybody elses job. This is done on an on-going basis.
Yes thats correct. The team leader (consultant if they are there, but could be any ACLS provider) is also responsible for ensuring that everything is being done.
It wasnt appropriate in the circumstances (introduction to first aid, not even an 8 hours). I often show classes what ambulance crews do so that they are aware. I've also learnt that my students time would be better spent practicing skills they can use, not hours looking at skills they cant.That may have been appropiate depening on the class they were teaching. Remember, EFR carries out those skills. The new CFR advanced will also teach these skills. Perhaps they were explaining what they ambulance crew would do when they arrive and take over?Perhaps they stop them because they have had encounters with a particular organisation, unit etc and they have formed an opinion good, bad or otherwise. Maybe why some doctors stand off is because they know their training is very outdated and are not that comfortable joining in. Perhaps the doctor is happy enough to leave you "work away" provided you are doing your job correctly.
Your right, and in some instances its because they dont know who can do what, so they step in and push the other provider away - understandably as they would have clinical responsibility.OFAAA do not recognise any pre-existing training whatsoever. The procedure to become an instructor is the same regardless. You submit your lesson plans and powerpoint before hand. Pay your assessment fees. Called for assessment. Asked to present 1 or 2 lessons, maybe demonstrate a few skills. And then you are deemed qualified or not. Simple as.
You must have a Valid OFA Certificate or equivalent/higher in order to become an instructor. Otherwise you cannot apply for assessment. They recognise EMT etc as being acceptable. I am stating that they recognise pre-existing qualifications as the OP states he feels its Irish if consultants cant be instructors, Im advising him of how they can!Why is this an advantage? Are you implying that all ambulance crew are instructors? That all ambulance crew would be capable of delivering the course? Do you mean to say that because its cheaper it is better?
I am certainly not saying all ambulance crews are instructors - my comments above apply.
I should have been clearer - I was half joking in response to the OP flippantly "throwing a few quid"- I meant that for the "going rate" of one consultant physician for 3 days (OFA) or one (CFR) you could pay for at least 4 instructors from a voluntary organisation ("the fleet"), and only used SJA as they were the example given earlier. There are some great vol instructors in CD, IRC and OMAC also.0 -
Your correct they dont have to sit an instructor course, I meant instructor assessment.
They are expected to teach to the OFA Syllabus (which doesnt include oxygen, suction etc)
The documentation they submit for their assessment must cover the same course material as the OFA syllabus.
The OFAAA occasionally (in theory) inspect classes to ensure they are being run in line with current guideliines.
Yes, they are expected to teach as per the syllabus. But given the fact that they can present themselves with no formal training in instruction other than CFR - where everything needed for the course is nicely packaged on a dvd. How can you expect them to develope lesson plans, powerpoints, course agendas, skills check sheets and short answer questions having never done it before. Inevitably there will be differences etc, even if the syllabus is being followed to the letter of the law.I beg to differ - its a differing environment. Theres more to teaching a course than 30 compressions and two breaths. Many healthcare providers are still only being updated to Guidelines 2010. Obviously we can expect consultants to be familar with these.
Yes there is. Delivery of information, assimilation of knowledge, demonstration of skills, corrective actions, etc. You think these are skills that a specialist doctor may be lacking? Why do you assume that a doctor has no knowledge of the medical world outside the hospital environment? Why is it only consultants who you think would be fully upskilled. The Irish Heart Foundation required that from april 1st only the new guidelines would be taught. Further more, the only available teaching material is that from the Heart Foundation. So there will already be a difference in how the material is taught.In hospital there are also teams so that various actions can be done simultaneously, manual defibrillators are used, etc. How does that translate to the out of hospital setting and AED use vs manula defib?[/qupte]
I dont understand the point you are trying to make here? If they can operate a manual machine, then surly they can operate a 2 button machine that has primiarly been designed for somebody with little or no training?I can think of a few instances of hospital staff fumbling when equipment failed, but if I list them Il sound critical (and Im not, its just facts that pre-hospital and in hospital are different). From a first aid perspective there is a lot more to first aid then CPR.
Yes, and I can think of a few times when pre-hospital people fumbled around with equipment when it DIDNT fail. This is just human nature, man and machine will always have their falling out. Sure some first aiders fumble around with bandages...
If there is more to doing first aid then CPR, and you already mentioned that there is no advanced equipment involved like suction etc. Then why do you keep making reference to the fact that doctors may not be as comfortable with the other aspects of first aid?I dont need to ask paramedics, Iv did enough handovers myself. They now expect Ambulance crews to have a certain level done - but that doesnt mean they know the exact details of what OFA, EFR or CFR can do.
Can I assume that since you are doing handovers that you are EFR or EMT?I dont even know off the cuff whats OFA vs EFR vs EMT(without looking at CPGs, which I do before classes) and I occasionally teach OFA and CFR.
Surly if you are going to teach these subjects then you should be very comfortable with it. To the point of knowing what is taught to the different levels? If you are an EMT or EFR then you should be aware of the scope of practice of those a clinical level below you, as you might be expected to take a hand over from them?PHECC even recognised this and released a document a few years ago for hospital staff, to show them what different practioners can do.
I would suggest that this document was released to show the practictioners themselves what the various levels could do. As there was a number of rumours going around regarding the skill set of the various levels and who could do what. It had nothing to do with the hospitals.Yes thats correct. The team leader (consultant if they are there, but could be any ACLS provider) is also responsible for ensuring that everything is being done.
All members of that team will be IHF ACLS or ACLS EP providers. They may also be PALS providers.It wasnt appropriate in the circumstances (introduction to first aid, not even an 8 hours). I often show classes what ambulance crews do so that they are aware. I've also learnt that my students time would be better spent practicing skills they can use, not hours looking at skills they cant.
Is that an accrediated course?
I often show classes what ambulance crews do = students time would be better spent practicing skills = looking at skills they cant ?Your right, and in some instances its because they dont know who can do what, so they step in and push the other provider away - understandably as they would have clinical responsibility.
That could be it alright. It could also be that they think they could do a better job or maybe the responder or practictoner is fumbling.You must have a Valid OFA Certificate or equivalent/higher in order to become an instructor. Otherwise you cannot apply for assessment. They recognise EMT etc as being acceptable. I am stating that they recognise pre-existing qualifications as the OP states he feels its Irish if consultants cant be instructors, Im advising him of how they can!
Incorrect I am afraid. Entry for level 4, the ofa course itself is
"FETAC Level 4 Certificate, Leaving Certificate or equivalent
qualifications and/or relevant life and work experiences."
for the level 6 instructor course the requirements are:- Have an appropriate up to date Occupational First Aid Qualification, at merit level or better.
- Have a PHECC recognised CFR instructor certificate.
- Attendance at an Occupational First Aid Instructor training course is recommended. However such training is not mandatory as in some circumstances candidates may have sufficient competence and experience without the need to attend such a course.
- Send an application form with payment to OFAAA.
- Send a set of lesson plans for a Fetac Level 5 OFA course to OFAAA.
- I am not sure if they will accept EMT, becuase it is not a FETAC certified course.
I am certainly not saying all ambulance crews are instructors - my comments above apply.
I should have been clearer - I was half joking in response to the OP flippantly "throwing a few quid"- I meant that for the "going rate" of one consultant physician for 3 days (OFA) or one (CFR) you could pay for at least 4 instructors from a voluntary organisation ("the fleet"), and only used SJA as they were the example given earlier. There are some great vol instructors in CD, IRC and OMAC also.
Ok, Ill give you that one.0 -
BusinessForums wrote: »Yes, they are expected to teach as per the syllabus. But given the fact that they can present themselves with no formal training in instruction other than CFR - where everything needed for the course is nicely packaged on a dvd. How can you expect them to develope lesson plans, powerpoints, course agendas, skills check sheets and short answer questions having never done it before. Inevitably there will be differences etc, even if the syllabus is being followed to the letter of the law.
Yes, I agree, some differences. I (maybe we) would expect the course to be fundamentally the same - ie would roughly cover the same topics.Yes there is. Delivery of information, assimilation of knowledge, demonstration of skills, corrective actions, etc. You think these are skills that a specialist doctor may be lacking? Why do you assume that a doctor has no knowledge of the medical world outside the hospital environment? Why is it only consultants who you think would be fully upskilled. The Irish Heart Foundation required that from april 1st only the new guidelines would be taught. Further more, the only available teaching material is that from the Heart Foundation. So there will already be a difference in how the material is taught.
As regards your delivery of information etc specialist physicians are of course used to same, but within the hospital environment which is somewhat more organised and controlled. I wouldnt expect an experienced Second Level teacher to suddenly be qualified to teach junior infants without additional practice/in-service?
I specifically state consultants as the OP referred to A&E / ICU Consultants. As regards general medical staff being upskilled, you appear to be familar with the hospital environment. How many hospital nurses and NCHDs really do BLS on a two yearly basis? especially with wards currently being understaffed? The only docs I ever had in classes were ones who were going for ACLS.I dont understand the point you are trying to make here? If they can operate a manual machine, then surly they can operate a 2 button machine that has primiarly been designed for somebody with little or no training??
MY point here is regarding the sequencing and managing of events. In the CPR scenario the controlled hospital environment, with other professionals on hand, is totally different to the prehospital setting. The manual defib was just one example.
Manual defib requires a quick glance, out of hospital requires hands off analysis time. Indeed I know a non ICU / A&E Consultant who did bystander defibrillation on a previously-unseen AED some time ago so of course Im not saying one couldnt. Id expect almost any hospital staff member to be able to operate an AED themselves.If there is more to doing first aid then CPR, and you already mentioned that there is no advanced equipment involved like suction etc. Then why do you keep making reference to the fact that doctors may not be as comfortable with the other aspects of first aid?
Basic aspects of bleeding control - direct pressure and elevation for example. Iv often seen panic when people run for would pads when a cannula comes out. A basic first aider would instead apply (Gloved) direct pressure and elevate.
Yes - who worked in numerous 911 transporting services overseas.Can I assume that since you are doing handovers that you are EFR or EMT?
I am very comfortable with material. I rarely do an entire course so dont know the entire syllabus off the top of my head, or what levels do what. But I do know where to find this out. At course time I do revise this material and carry the relevant CPG books with me so that I can check if questions are fielded. I dont know many practioners who can tell the difference between what an EFR or OFA can do, but I do feel I should know it better. I doubt many paramedics could tell you exactly what an EMT can or cant do that a Para can or cant? Or what the differences are between an EMT and an EFR? Thankfully I have conscious incompetence of same and have recently started to study the differences, but I think Im being a little fussy wanting to know them. Its enough to know what you can do, and to only teach your students to the level that they can do.Surly if you are going to teach these subjects then you should be very comfortable with it. To the point of knowing what is taught to the different levels? If you are an EMT or EFR then you should be aware of the scope of practice of those a clinical level below you, as you might be expected to take a hand over from them?
Somewhere inside the document or in PHECC voice it specifically stated it was for hospital staff. I actually felt it was more useful for me as a prehospital provider though! But I can see the thinking behind it - it allows hospital staff to understand why some patients will have advanced interventions while others wont etc.I would suggest that this document was released to show the practictioners themselves what the various levels could do. As there was a number of rumours going around regarding the skill set of the various levels and who could do what. It had nothing to do with the hospitals.
Sorry Im lost [probably my fault] as to why this is relevant? Please remind me!All members of that team will be IHF ACLS or ACLS EP providers. They may also be PALS providers.
Furthermore I would love to be in your hospital where ALL persons at an arrest are ACLS or ACLS EP trained.
The c. 8 hour one I was referring to the nurses teaching was not accredited.Is that an accrediated course?
Im saying how I often *have* (and unfortunately out of habit sometimes do still) show students these skills. However I have come to realise that I should focus instead on students practicing the skills they can do. Its from watching others do this, that I realised that students really just become confused and distracted when you show them essentially irrelevant information.I often show classes what ambulance crews do = students time would be better spent practicing skills = looking at skills they cant ?
The possibilities are endless :PThat could be it alright. It could also be that they think they could do a better job or maybe the responder or practictoner is fumbling.
Really :P Afraid not :Incorrect I am afraid.Entry for level 4, the ofa course itself is
"FETAC Level 4 Certificate, Leaving Certificate or equivalent
qualifications and/or relevant life and work experiences."
for the level 6 instructor course the requirements are:- Have an appropriate up to date Occupational First Aid Qualification, at merit level or better.
- Have a PHECC recognised CFR instructor certificate.
- Attendance at an Occupational First Aid Instructor training course is recommended. However such training is not mandatory as in some circumstances candidates may have sufficient competence and experience without the need to attend such a course.
- Send an application form with payment to OFAAA.
- Send a set of lesson plans for a Fetac Level 5 OFA course to OFAAA.
- I am not sure if they will accept EMT, becuase it is not a FETAC certified course.
Correct I'm afraid. I too was not particularly happy at the prospects of having to do an OFA course in order to become an instructor [mainly as I didnt want to have to pay for it on top of the €607.50) and contacted the OFAAA who advised that they "obviously" dont expect practioners to go back and do a basic course. The remainder of the requirements (2-5) do apply. Also isnt the basic course Fetac Level 5Ok, Ill give you that one.
Thank you
It sounds like Im getting down the neck at doctors perhaps. I just wished to point out why the OPs numerous consultant buddys are not necessarily automagically going to be genius first aid instructors, who are telepathically or otherwise going to know the contents of and skills appropriate to an Occupational First Aider.
However its two completely different arenas. PHECC dont say that you can have a nurse and a paramedic in an Emergency Ambulance? In the US they are considered two different but related professions. Doctors will often do their EMT-B and EMT-P training even though they are doctors. Look at any American EMT textbook and you will see lots of Nurses and Doctors who have EMT-P after their name. Some who I met see it as an honour to be certified in pre-hospital care.
I only recently spoke to and advised a number of retiring nurses about becoming First Aid Instructors as feel that the wider community would really benefit from their skills and experience. It would take very little for them to become great instructors, but its not as simple as walking in and teaching the class. I am delighted to see hospital staff getting involved in the pre-hospital arena.0 -
-
-
-
I remember not too long ago voluntary crew turned up at a hospital gave the handover and the doc was very condenscending until he started asking what their day jobs were two of the replies Advanced Paramedic and Paramedic.Don't let a uniform fool you
I'd still prefer an A+E or ICU doc, so not sure what the point is. But anyway, I almost have this issue sorted (ie it's been passed onto a H+S person) thankfully 0 -
I'd still prefer an A+E or ICU doc, so not sure what the point is. But anyway, I almost have this issue sorted (ie it's been passed onto a H+S person) thankfully
Good for you!
If ever ya need medical assistance make sure to tell that to the Paramedic or Advanced Paramedic Responding!
They have a little box on their form that they can fill in if you'd prefer the doctor, if they do that they can leave you in peace.
After all, it would be terrible for you to be stuck with a Paramedic of only two years training or an AP of 5+ years experience and training when ya could have a doctor!0 -
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
Advertisement