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The ESB And Eirgrid can go f*ck themselves - Merge

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12357…26

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    #122
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    FortyPlusHubby wrote: »
    Neither do I see an innocent person being sent to prison here.

    That was just a small mention of the fact appeals can be wrong, in response to it being said we take on the obligation to accept the outcome of an appeal. Nothing more. But all of a sudden its claimed i think all people should be released from prison becase i said that.

    The lady has made it clear she will not uphold the laws of the country where she has been given the right of citizenship. Why should we accept that?

    Is she a foreign national who applied for citizenship? I didnt realise that part.
    If she was a sister of a prominent FF politician we'd be far from sympathetic, no?


    If she was your close relation, would you have any? I dont have much on it either way. I was just making the point that many posters on boards have opinions about such matters, which they would likely differ from if in the same actual circumstances as this thread is about. Its easy to say what you would do, until you face it yourself.


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    #123
    Handy11
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭Handy11


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Is she a foreign national who applied for citizenship? I didnt realise that part.

    We all have been given the right of citizenship. It is essentially the right to be free in the state and in return abiding by the laws of the state. By being born here you are given that right.

    Your arguments are based on hypothetical ideas and don't in any way discuss or tease out the right/wrong of this action, the actions of the court, and the actions of the woman towards the court. I really can't see the core of what you are trying to say.


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    #124
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    It isn't a sexism or ageism issue. It's a land right issue.
    Land rights here are a mine field. You may own the land but doesn't mean you own the rights to the minerals under it, or to fish in a river that runs through your land. I'm not sure if hunting rights are also separate to land rights. In fact most home owners don't own their land, they just have a very very long lease on it.


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    #125
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    I wonder if the state is paying her to forest her land?

    If that is the case then she enjoys the benefits of redistributed property (taxes) but thinks that her property rights should be absolute.


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    #126
    Zen65
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    sensibleken wrote: »
    I would like to thank the courts for putting this dangerous criminal behind bars while at the same time give a suspended sentence to the guy who burgled my house, had 17 previous convictions and then went on to commit attempted murder against me.

    I thought judges were supposed to be intelligent?

    Ironically if the guy who burgled your house had missed his court appearance he would have had a warrant issued for his arrest and imprisonment would have been likely, because the courts see contempt of court as a very serious offence.

    ...and that of course is why this lady was sent to prison.

    Z


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    #127
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    smash wrote: »
    Reports from the photography forum say the ESB were in there yesterday cutting her trees down.


    Have you a link for that please.

    I'ver heard over a 1000 trees have been knocked with many more to follow.


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    #128
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    She is infact a woman and elderly. My second comment you qouted still holds true.
    In other news the state will be raising the retirement age to 68. So you will probably be expected to do a full days work years after you reach her age.

    Playing the woman card is sexist. In fact since women live longer than men on average I would put it to you that she is not as elderly as a man of the same age.


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    #129
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    In other news the state will be raising the retirement age to 68. So you will probably be expected to do a full days work years after you reach her age.

    Playing the woman card is sexist. In fact since women live longer than men on average I would put it to you that she is not as elderly as a man of the same age.

    Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about.


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    #130
    booboo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭booboo88


    biko wrote: »
    Everyone wants power and motorways but not in their backyard.
    but in all fairness, she'll recieve a nice chq from networks for rental. and they are going to plant more trees for her.
    so im still struggling hwat her issue is


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    #131
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    blaze1 wrote: »
    I'm sure the money they wasted on bringing the women to court and greasing the judge would have at the very least paid for the ducting for the cabling.
    I'm sure it wouldn't come close
    In February 2006 the ESB began plans to construct a 110kV transmission powerline from Cushaling to Thornsbury. The plans specify that double woodpole structures and steel towers accommodating overhead powerlines be built at 200 metre intervals over a total distance of 32 kilometres through the lands of local landowners.

    One pole every 200m. Just how much land does she have , it can't be more than a few poles unless she is loaded.

    I've seen prices of €1m a km for underground cabling.
    http://www.eirgridprojects.com/media/Appendix%20A-2%20110%20UGC%20Feasibility%20Study.pdf


    http://www.eirgridprojects.com/media/PHASE%201%20REPORT.pdf
    This has pictures of typical 110KV line towers on page 18 and page 19 - They are NOT the big towers used for 400KV
    Overhead line intermediate woodpole portal structures consist of two wood poles, 5 metres apart, connected near the
    top with a rolled steel channel. The full length of the wood poles varies from 16-23m with a minimum 2.3m of this buried
    underground.
    ...
    Lattice steel angle towers are used on 110 kV overhead lines where the line changes direction. They typically range
    in height from circa 17 – 24 metres depending on the ground profile.


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    #132
    Zimmerframe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Zimmerframe


    CJC999 wrote: »
    She's a stubborn stupid old woman with no regard for any one or anything but herself so why should any one else give a fúck about her....i certainly dont!

    Might not be my choice of words, but in a nutshell that's it.

    People talking rubbish about burying cables, they have no idea of the costs involved nor would they want it added to their ESB bill.


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    #133
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Zimmerframe wrote: »
    Might not be my choice of words, but in a nutshell that's it.

    People talking rubbish about burying cables, they have no idea of the costs involved nor would they want it added to their ESB bill.


    They should bury the cables.


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    #134
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about.
    Like you said it isn't a sexism or ageism issue. Just pointing out that it can't even be made one because she is well below the proposed retirement age.

    It's not about land rights either.

    It's a simple case of contempt of court.
    Do not pass go , do not collect £200.
    Liam Lawlor TD was sentenced to six months in prison for this.


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    #135
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    They should bury the cables.
    and who should pay for it ?

    and why should they bury the cables especially for her and not for everyone else ?


    Does anyone know how many towers are involved ?
    It's about 5 per kilometer.


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    #136
    Outkast_IRE
    Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    They should bury the cables.
    No they shouldnt that will set a precedent that will forever be reffered back to when one of these cases comes up , the extra costs would be staggering if more cases like this came up and underground cables were needed.


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    #137
    Patser
    Registered Users Posts: 7,967 ✭✭✭Patser


    sensibleken wrote: »
    I would like to thank the courts for putting this dangerous criminal behind bars while at the same time give a suspended sentence to the guy who burgled my house, had 17 previous convictions and then went on to commit attempted murder against me.

    I thought judges were supposed to be intelligent?


    I bet when your dangerous criminal was in court. he said he was very sorry and wouldn't do it again. So the judge gave him a suspended sentence as a warning.

    When the Judge in this case asked the Lady will she stop breaking the law, she effectively said no, I intend to break it as soon as I get home and not stop. What was the judge to do in this case?

    It sucks that bad things happen and skangers walk free but to have some-one say to the Judge 'Yes I will defy you as soon as I'm out' cannot be tolerated. Same would've happened if your burglar had said something similar. That's why she's in jail and as soon as she says she won't break the law (and complies), she'll be out. It's her choice.


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    #138
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    and who should pay for it ?

    and why should they bury the cables especially for her and not for everyone else ?


    Does anyone know how many towers are involved ?
    It's about 5 per kilometer.


    Who pays for anything in this country?

    Probably you though.

    The French have the right idea, they have been running underground cables for the last decade. Mainly because it was cheaper in the long run. Little to no maintenance, no power cuts or damage to lines in adverse weather conditions. It is obviously more aesthetically pleasing and less of a health concern.


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    #139
    Zen65
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    The French have the right idea, they have been running underground cables for the last decade. Mainly because it was cheaper in the long run. Little to no maintenance, no power cuts or damage to lines in adverse weather conditions.

    Actually the French approach probably has more to do with protecting their own indigenous cable industry.

    Z


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    #140
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Zen65 wrote: »
    Actually the French approach probably has more to do with protecting their own indigenous cable industry.

    Z


    Actually they had a really bad storm in the late 90's that took down and damaged a large section of their network. They implemented change soon after. No probably's about it.


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    #141
    Tazz T
    Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    seamus wrote: »
    I wouldn't accept the decision, however I would accept that as far as the legal system is concerned I am guilty, so I am not suddenly going to expect them to release me because I say so and I would continue to pursue every legal avenue available to me to assert my innocence.

    The key here being legal avenue. We can't just allow people to decide which legal rulings they do and do not abide by.

    The "innocent man" argument is a strawman. It doesn't relate to this issue at all. She defied a court order, she broke the law.

    ...so did the women who got ten lashes in Saudi Arabia for driving, so she was in the wrong as well? Yeah?


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    #142
    supernoob
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭supernoob


    It is pretty shocking that our legal system is so unbalanced that it can contrive to imprison an old woman for preventing trespass but has no means to confront or address the destruction of our economy through corruption, negligence and incompetence and the financial enslavement of our citizens by the corrupt, negligent and incompetent


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    #143
    Tazz T
    Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    What he said...

    It's about human rights and equality. Not we're in charge and we can change the law to suit what we want. If the Irish people say this is okay, then all is lost.


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    #144
    Zen65
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Actually they had a really bad storm in the late 90's that took down and damaged a large section of their network. They implemented change soon after. No probably's about it.

    I recall that alright.

    Then again in Auckland (more recently I think) they had a cascade of underground cable failures which led to equally bad power failures. There is no superior technological solution it seems.


    Z


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    #145
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Wireless would be handy.

    Oh and was the Auckland failure due to the earth quakes, do you recall?


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    #146
    Zen65
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    supernoob wrote: »
    It is pretty shocking that our legal system is so unbalanced that it can contrive to imprison an old woman for preventing trespass but has no means to confront or address the destruction of our economy through corruption, negligence and incompetence and the financial enslavement of our citizens by the corrupt, negligent and incompetent

    Absolutely agree with this bit in bold.

    But let's not forget Ms Tracey was not sent to prison for preventing trespass, she was sent to prison for contempt of court, specifically for refusing to recognise the jurisdiction of the court to rule in this case which required her to uphold the law of the land. The judge was left with no choice.

    Incidentally, the only time that Liam Lawlor served in prison was for exactly the same offence.


    Z


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    #147
    Zen65
    Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    Oh and was the Auckland failure due to the earth quakes, do you recall?

    I don't think so, I believe it was the result of systemic overloading of the circuits and poor protection designs. That said, it's years since I read up on it so I might be wrong.

    Z


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    #148
    whitewicca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭whitewicca


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    They should bury the cables.
    I'm sorry Micky


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    #149
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Micky Dolenz wrote: »
    The French have the right idea, they have been running underground cables for the last decade.

    I did a quick google and seen nothing on it.

    I would have thought that burying cables costs a multiple of using pylons and has a far greater environmental impact i.e. digging a dirty big trench through feilds, streams, bogs, rock, archeogical sites etc?

    Doesn't seem to add up.


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    #150
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    I did a quick google and seen nothing on it.

    I would have thought that burying cables costs a multiple of using pylons and has a far greater environmental impact i.e. digging a dirty big trench through feilds, streams, bogs, rock, archeogical sites etc?

    Doesn't seem to add up.
    Not to mention more scope for some muppet in a JCB digging through the cable.

    (used to happen every 3 months or so where I used to work due to nearby construction.)


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    #151
    Ostrom
    Registered Users Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Ostrom


    sdeire wrote: »
    Ashamed of themselves they may be, but this isn't the ESB talking.

    The woman lost her case, and is in contempt of court. She's being sent to prison for wilfully spitting in the face of the state, and very, very rightly so. She'll be let out as soon as she complies with the court order. Ball in her court.

    When this was the Rossport five, an awful lot of people said good for them, let them and their vigilante ways stay in prison in definitely. This is no different.

    And yet it is fine for individuals with appropriate connections, money and power to alter legal precedent to suit their own ends? 'A citizen pitted against the constitution'......


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