Dublin Marathon 2011 Novices Mentored Thread

BobMac104 · 26-09-2011 10:41am

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|5|40 Miles|333 miles|Excellent week, 18.5 done very comfortably and legs fine today! :cool:|
Nules10|0|0|384.5|:( haven't run since the half leg still at me can't even do short runs. Hopefully this week will sort it out getting plenty of sports massages and total rest|
liamog|5|40|289.1 miles|LSR of 19 Miles as a real chore, legs feeling sore now but it's muscle pain so should abate over the next 2 days|
Concerned2|||440.33 miles||
Househunter|5|52.72|540.72 miles|Tough week this week. Miles in the dark doing laps of Maynooth not so enjoyable. PMP run was hard|
Mr Abbey|4|36m|271 miles|Definitely even going to register soon!

|
PDCAT|||262.5m|
TomD101|||262since 04/07||
ShivDCM|4|36|337m|first 20m done and i dont feel too bad today|
BobMac104|5|50|410.05 |Good hard week to get back into the swing of things after holiday. 19m LSR went really well yesterday and legs are perfect this morning. nice to hit the 50 mile mark.|
red face dave|4|33|204 miles|Never thought I would run this far ever never mind in 2 months. |
Younganne|3|26|217.5m|very tired this week and didn't do full quota, but managed 18LSR today, was fine until mile 16 and stopped to get bottle of water, just wouldn't get going again, hard running in the torrential rain, but great training in case Dublin is wet!:rolleyes:
rom|5|37.1 miles|365.56 miles|Went for LSR 20m but only did 14m because of upset stomach

|
TiptoeMushroom|||260.5km since June 22nd. ||
mazken|4|36|285.8 miles|18 mile LSR...done!!!Had a 24 hour bug during week, spent all day Friday in bed so wasn't feeling the most hopeful setting off this morning in the rain but so delighted to complete it - major psychological boost

|
run44 (Aoife)|3|30.6m|384.7 miles since June|Tired this week and missed one run, but managed the 20m LSR. Was tough, but delighted to have one 20 miler down!|
specialk1977|||122| |
maggiemissy|||384.1||

Finally finally finally listened to Ray,Meno and mr slow and went out slowly on my LSR. Felt crap for 4 -5 miles and then I was fine. took an iso gel at halfway too. I averaged 10:02 pace and my splits were fairly consistant throughout. First LSR that I felt i could have gone on further at the end. Thanks lads!

Mr Slow · 26-09-2011 10:44am

BobMac104 wrote: »

First LSR that I felt i could have gone on further at the end. Thanks lads!

Well done!

TomD101 · 26-09-2011 11:28am

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|5|40 Miles|333 miles|Excellent week, 18.5 done very comfortably and legs fine today! :cool:|
Nules10|0|0|384.5|:( haven't run since the half leg still at me can't even do short runs. Hopefully this week will sort it out getting plenty of sports massages and total rest|
liamog|5|40|289.1 miles|LSR of 19 Miles as a real chore, legs feeling sore now but it's muscle pain so should abate over the next 2 days|
Concerned2|||440.33 miles||
Househunter|5|52.72|540.72 miles|Tough week this week. Miles in the dark doing laps of Maynooth not so enjoyable. PMP run was hard|
Mr Abbey|4|36m|271 miles|Definitely even going to register soon!

|
PDCAT|||262.5m|
TomD101|4|38m|300 since 04/07|18.5 miles Saturday felt good and strong. 7.5miles yday recovery, Athlone 3/4 this week and 53 miles planned|
ShivDCM|4|36|337m|first 20m done and i dont feel too bad today|
BobMac104|5|50|410.05 |Good hard week to get back into the swing of things after holiday. 19m LSR went really well yesterday and legs are perfect this morning. nice to hit the 50 mile mark.|
red face dave|4|33|204 miles|Never thought I would run this far ever never mind in 2 months. |
Younganne|3|26|217.5m|very tired this week and didn't do full quota, but managed 18LSR today, was fine until mile 16 and stopped to get bottle of water, just wouldn't get going again, hard running in the torrential rain, but great training in case Dublin is wet!:rolleyes:
rom|5|37.1 miles|365.56 miles|Went for LSR 20m but only did 14m because of upset stomach

|
TiptoeMushroom|||260.5km since June 22nd. ||
mazken|4|36|285.8 miles|18 mile LSR...done!!!Had a 24 hour bug during week, spent all day Friday in bed so wasn't feeling the most hopeful setting off this morning in the rain but so delighted to complete it - major psychological boost

|
run44 (Aoife)|3|30.6m|384.7 miles since June|Tired this week and missed one run, but managed the 20m LSR. Was tough, but delighted to have one 20 miler down!|
specialk1977|||122| |
maggiemissy|||384.1||

maggiemissy · 26-09-2011 1:48pm

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|5|40 Miles|333 miles|Excellent week, 18.5 done very comfortably and legs fine today! :cool:|
Nules10|0|0|384.5|:( haven't run since the half leg still at me can't even do short runs. Hopefully this week will sort it out getting plenty of sports massages and total rest|
liamog|||249.1 miles||
Concerned2|||440.33 miles||
Househunter|||488 miles||
Mr Abbey|||235 miles||
PDCAT|||262.5m|
TomD101|||262since 04/07||
ShivDCM|4|36|337m|first 20m done and i dont feel too bad today|
BobMac104|||360.05 ||
red face dave|4|33|204 miles|Never thought I would run this far ever never mind in 2 months. |
Younganne|3|26|217.5m|very tired this week and didn't do full quota, but managed 18LSR today, was fine until mile 16 and stopped to get bottle of water, just wouldn't get going again, hard running in the torrential rain, but great training in case Dublin is wet!:rolleyes:
rom|||328.43 miles||
TiptoeMushroom|||260.5km since June 22nd. ||
mazken|4|36|285.8 miles|18 mile LSR...done!!!Had a 24 hour bug during week, spent all day Friday in bed so wasn't feeling the most hopeful setting off this morning in the rain but so delighted to complete it - major psychological boost

|
maggiemissy|4|35|419 miles|18 mile done great boost to the system to have achieved it |
run44 (Aoife)|3|30.6m|384.7 miles since June|Tired this week and missed one run, but managed the 20m LSR. Was tough, but delighted to have one 20 miler down!|
specialk1977|||122| |
maggiemissy|||384.1||

Tec Diver · 26-09-2011 1:49pm

Joining this thread a bit late in the day, but better than never I guess. Here's my answers:

PBs - 5k is just over 23min, 10k is 47min, HM is 1:45:30, all this year and the HM was the Dublin one a couple of weeks ago.
Walk breaks only after 2 hours, so my fueling needs to be altered I think!
Current training: Run 5 days a week, two speed sessions and three "easy" runs; one short mid-week run, one mid-week long run and one LSR. Also do core/conditioning training in gym 1-2 times a week, usually twice.
Dream finishing time would be sub 3:45, realistic finishing time sub 4hr
Can train 5 days a week
I'm running this one (Dublin) partly in memory of my father, who died of cancer when I was half the age I am now, and partly in aid of Barnardos.

As I mentioned, my fueling needs work. This will be my second marathon, the first was Conn this April (I know, not an ideal first!), I did that in 4:26, but was under-trained too.
All (constructive) advice greatly appreciated

RayCun · 26-09-2011 2:08pm

Tec Diver wrote: »

Current training: Run 5 days a week, two speed sessions and three "easy" runs; one short mid-week run, one mid-week long run and one LSR.

Your LSR doesn't really count as an easy run

Even your midweek long run isn't really 'easy' depending on how long it is.
Have you been following any sort of structured plan? How often have you hit 2 hours and started to walk? Is it definitely fuelling - what have you tried eating - or could it be pace too?

sunflowerRo · 26-09-2011 2:13pm

Did anyone else catch this?

A professor doubts the effectiveness of ice baths!

http://www.rte.ie/news/av/2011/0926/media-3062483.html#

I cant believe I suffered hypothermia for nothing :eek::eek:

Nules10 · 26-09-2011 2:41pm

sunflowerRo wrote: »

Did anyone else catch this?

A professor doubts the effectiveness of ice baths!

http://www.rte.ie/news/av/2011/0926/media-3062483.html#

I cant believe I suffered hypothermia for nothing :eek::eek:

I REFUSE to believe it

rom · 26-09-2011 2:52pm

Nules10 wrote: »

I REFUSE to believe it

Is it Professor Weetos by any chance ?

Mr Slow · 26-09-2011 3:12pm

sunflowerRo wrote: »

Did anyone else catch this?

A professor doubts the effectiveness of ice baths!

http://www.rte.ie/news/av/2011/0926/media-3062483.html#

I cant believe I suffered hypothermia for nothing :eek::eek:

It's simple,

Hard sessions = micro tears and inflammation

Ice applied to the area = reduction of inflammation

I think he was against their use after every session as opposed to a recovery aid for D.O.M.S. etc and that they're not a miracle cure all, resetting the clock as it were.

They work for me, that's all I need to know!

sunflowerRo · 26-09-2011 3:55pm

Nules10 wrote: »

I REFUSE to believe it

I wonder did the controlled study involve a cuppa in the bath as recommended by Professor Nules10

Nules10 · 26-09-2011 3:56pm

sunflowerRo wrote: »

I wonder did the controlled study involve a cuppa in the bath as recommended by Professor Nules10

clearly not otherwise they would have said it was the best thing EVER

Mr Slow · 26-09-2011 4:03pm

Nules10 wrote: »

clearly not otherwise they would have said it was the best thing EVER

The cuppa or the bath?:pac:

Nules10 · 26-09-2011 5:31pm

Mr Slow wrote: »

The cuppa or the bath?:pac:

Both

alanking · 26-09-2011 10:39pm

Hi Folks

Ran the Dublin Half in 1:40 (& 10m in 1:15), followed that up with 1 day rest then 4 tough sessions that included a 20m LSR.
My problem is that I cant seem to master the 'Slow' part of the LSR and end up running a lot of it at marathon pace, which leaves me struggling toward the end and with sore knees.
My aim for the DCM is sub 4 - but my times so far indicate that I can do 3:45 or better. I just need to learn to pace my LSR better and get a better quality of run. Right?

Also - at this stage - how much speed work should we be doing or is it all about miles in the legs at this stage.
My current training is 1 easy 5 miler, 2 speed sessions 1 LSR.

All advice welcome !!

Excellent Thread!

alanking · 26-09-2011 10:42pm

Finally finally finally listened to Ray,Meno and mr slow and went out slowly on my LSR. Felt crap for 4 -5 miles and then I was fine. took an iso gel at halfway too. I averaged 10:02 pace and my splits were fairly consistant throughout. First LSR that I felt i could have gone on further at the end. Thanks lads![/QUOTE]

Might need to listen to this advice myself!!

RayCun · 27-09-2011 8:49am

As we were saying above, running the LSR slow means you train your body to be better at burning fat, and you are not as exhausted afterwards, which means you can train properly for the rest of the week and you don't end up wearing yourself out completely over the months of training.

The longer runs are more important. At this stage it isn't going to make much difference, but you'd be better off with just one faster session (5k pace or half-marathon pace) a week, and a second longish run of about ten miles at LSR pace.

alanking · 27-09-2011 8:51am

thanks Ray - good advice.

BobMac104 · 27-09-2011 9:24am

alanking wrote: »

Finally finally finally listened to Ray,Meno and mr slow and went out slowly on my LSR. Felt crap for 4 -5 miles and then I was fine. took an iso gel at halfway too. I averaged 10:02 pace and my splits were fairly consistant throughout. First LSR that I felt i could have gone on further at the end. Thanks lads!
Might need to listen to this advice myself!!

hey Alan I am in the exact same boat as you. felt like sh1t running at 10min miles for some reason but I think it may be that it takes a lot longer to get your second wind /warm up than if you run at marathon pace. Also as meno said it may be that at LSR pace that you are buring more fat and so your inital energy maybe lower than on a marathon /quicker paced run.

just try your best and be diciplined to do the first 5 miles of your next LSR at LSR pace and by that stage you should be feeling better and will be able to keep it up for the rest of the run.

The biggest difference i noticed was my recovery. while initally i was beat obviously, I felt like i could have gone out the same evening for another run if i wanted. The next day the legs felt much much fresher than they usually would after a LSR.

Tec Diver · 27-09-2011 9:28am

RayCun wrote: »

Your LSR doesn't really count as an easy run
Even your midweek long run isn't really 'easy' depending on how long it is.
Have you been following any sort of structured plan? How often have you hit 2 hours and started to walk? Is it definitely fuelling - what have you tried eating - or could it be pace too?

Ok, maybe a LSR isn't technically "easy", but done at an easy conversational pace, same pace as the nid-week long run of around 15k. Yes I'm following a plan, drawn up by a well respected coach I know.
The 2 hr thing has happened twice and last weeks LSR was by far the worst, due to stomach issues going into it. I've tried just using gels (a few different makes), also perpeteum solids and more recently cereal bars too. My overall eating is pretty healthy and I keep well hydrated. The pace is a conversational pace, which for me is between 6:00 and 5:35min/k (I don't work in the archaic imperial system). Could it be that a faster pace would suit me better? Don't want to risk big changes this close to the day.
TIA

RayCun · 27-09-2011 9:39am

Tec Diver wrote: »

Ok, maybe a LSR isn't technically "easy", but done at an easy conversational pace, same pace as the nid-week long run of around 15k. ...The pace is a conversational pace, which for me is between 6:00 and 5:35min/k

That's more or less marathon pace, for a 4 hour marathon. Your long runs should be somewhere between 6.00 and 6.30 (have a look at this calculator) You are probably just running out of energy.

Are the stomach issues new?

ger664 · 27-09-2011 10:17am

People who are finding LSR difficult at the end at a conversational pace should have a look at their hydration in the 24 hours leading up to that run.

liamog · 27-09-2011 10:38am

I run my LSR at a much slower around 7:00/km, is this too slow?

I ran 19 Miles on Sunday there was a section where I was down to 5:30/km but that was due to running at 9pm down the Ratoath Rd through Finglas, I challenge anybody to run that slowly. Anyway the run really took it out of the legs, but I've already recovered by today and next run isn't until tomorrow.

RayCun · 27-09-2011 10:47am

liamog wrote: »

I run my LSR at a much slower around 7:00/km, is this too slow?

Sorry, I can't remember - what time were you thinking of for the marathon?

liamog · 27-09-2011 11:08am

RayCun wrote: »

Sorry, I can't remember - what time were you thinking of for the marathon?

just under 4, my 10km time is 47:04, so doing the whole times your 10km by 5 gives me 3:55

pconn062 · 27-09-2011 11:20am

liamog wrote: »

I run my LSR at a much slower around 7:00/km, is this too slow?

I ran 19 Miles on Sunday there was a section where I was down to 5:30/km but that was due to running at 9pm down the Ratoath Rd through Finglas, I challenge anybody to run that slowly. Anyway the run really took it out of the legs, but I've already recovered by today and next run isn't until tomorrow.

I'd say you are running them a touch too slow, but better be too slow than too fast. According to McMillan you should be doing your long runs between 9 1/2-10 1/2 minutes a mile or in kilometres between 6-6 1/2 mins a kilometre. I'd would veer towards the faster end so maybe around 6 mins a kilometre.

liamog · 27-09-2011 3:00pm

pconn062 wrote: »

I'd say you are running them a touch too slow, but better be too slow than too fast. According to McMillan you should be doing your long runs between 9 1/2-10 1/2 minutes a mile or in kilometres between 6-6 1/2 mins a kilometre. I'd would veer towards the faster end so maybe around 6 mins a kilometre.

Thanks, figured as much, but with all the warnings to slow down on this thread I guess it sunk into the wrong person. Will try and aim at 6:00/km for my next long run.

PDCAT · 27-09-2011 3:11pm

Name|Sessions Completed|This Week|Total so far|Comments
Vagga|5|40 Miles|333 miles|Excellent week, 18.5 done very comfortably and legs fine today! :cool:|
Nules10|0|0|384.5|:( haven't run since the half leg still at me can't even do short runs. Hopefully this week will sort it out getting plenty of sports massages and total rest|
liamog|||249.1 miles||
Concerned2|||440.33 miles||
Househunter|||488 miles||
Mr Abbey|||235 miles||
PDCAT|0|0|262.5m|No run's last week due to injury.
TomD101|||262since 04/07||
ShivDCM|4|36|337m|first 20m done and i dont feel too bad today|
BobMac104|||360.05 ||
red face dave|4|33|204 miles|Never thought I would run this far ever never mind in 2 months. |
Younganne|3|26|217.5m|very tired this week and didn't do full quota, but managed 18LSR today, was fine until mile 16 and stopped to get bottle of water, just wouldn't get going again, hard running in the torrential rain, but great training in case Dublin is wet!:rolleyes:
rom|||328.43 miles||
TiptoeMushroom|||260.5km since June 22nd. ||
mazken|4|36|285.8 miles|18 mile LSR...done!!!Had a 24 hour bug during week, spent all day Friday in bed so wasn't feeling the most hopeful setting off this morning in the rain but so delighted to complete it - major psychological boost

|
maggiemissy|4|35|419 miles|18 mile done great boost to the system to have achieved it |
run44 (Aoife)|3|30.6m|384.7 miles since June|Tired this week and missed one run, but managed the 20m LSR. Was tough, but delighted to have one 20 miler down!|
specialk1977|||122| |
maggiemissy|||384.1||

Hi Ray/Mr Slow/

i'm using Hal Higdon novice 1 plan for this marathon. Hoping for sub 4 hours. Up to last week, had missed no LSR's (only missed one 8 mile midweek run).
However, due to injury, missed all last week's run's including 18mile LSR.
Leg still not the best, tried it out with a 5 mile recovery run yesterday and can't say i'm confident of being able to do much running for the rest of the week.
My longest run's in this plan have been 16.5 miles/15 miles & half marathon.

My question is, how much time out of training can i afford to miss in this plan. If i miss this week as well, am i screwed?

RayCun · 27-09-2011 3:17pm

PDCAT wrote: »

My question is, how much time out of training can i afford to miss in this plan. If i miss this week as well, am i screwed?

Your running fitness takes a long time to build up - it won't just disappear overnight either. There are just under 5 weeks to the marathon - if you miss this week completely you still have two weeks where you can build up your running before tapering back down again for the race.
It isn't an all-or-nothing deal anyway. There's no point at which the marathon becomes impossible, but the more your training is interrupted the less fit you are on the day and the harder you'll find it.

Mr Slow · 27-09-2011 3:37pm

Just to add to the above, if you are out for this week too, you'll get away with a shorter taper (2 weeks) because there will have been an effective rest period while you were off your feet.