Catalonia bans bullfighting

deirdremf · 26-09-2011 09:52PM

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

...
This is just Catalonia giving the rest of Spain the two fingers. It's a nationalist move and another step to getting total autonomy and perhaps independence from the rest of the country. I don't believe it was a move based on the rights of animals but whatever...I don't have any strong feelings against the "sport" although I don't like it. This is the least of this county's worries right now.

How do people in Madrid feel about the ban on bullfighting in the Canary Islands? Is it also seen as giving the fingers to the rest of Spain?

KeithAFC · 26-09-2011 09:54PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

The difference is keith when these people are caught doing that regulations are brought in to combat it.

And then it carries on by some one else. A cigarette bud in the eye of a squealing pig. Nothing will be said about it.

No one ever complains about circuses and the animal cruelty which goes on in many of them.

steddyeddy · 26-09-2011 09:55PM

How about this way of looking at it. Ricky Gervais is an animal rights activist and his view is the one he would rather see walk out of the ring/stadium or whatever is the one who had a choice. Im sort of with him on that bit. The bull didnt choose to be there the matador did. He in his words certainly not mine "loves it when a matador gets gored to death" because the bull didnt want to be there.

steddyeddy · 26-09-2011 09:57PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

And then it carries on by some one else. A cigarette bud in the eye of a squealing pig. Nothing will be said about it.

No one ever complains about circuses and the animal cruelty which goes on in many of them.

Keith loads of people complain about circuses! And thanks for that lovely image keith before I head to bed! You must have a graphic imagination! Animals dont genrally spend long amounts of time in slaughter houses they are sent in stunned and then killed.

af_thefragile · 26-09-2011 09:57PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

And then it carries on by some one else. A cigarette bud in the eye of a squealing pig. Nothing will be said about it.

No one ever complains about circuses and the animal cruelty which goes on in many of them.

No, there are groups and organisations which complain and do a lot to bring about awareness of such animal cruelty and try to change things.
Its just most people don't give a **** about it cuz its not them that's being tortured and abused and its all just fun and entertainment... Or if everything else fails, there's always the innane "its PC going too far" or "nanny state" arguments...

SV · 26-09-2011 10:00PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

And then it carries on by some one else. A cigarette bud in the eye of a squealing pig. Nothing will be said about it.

No one ever complains about circuses and the animal cruelty which goes on in many of them.

So we should just let all kinds of torture and cruelty continue because we benefit from an industry where it happens anyway(and hopefully rarely) ?

and people do complain about that circus cruelty but yet again, seriously, your argument there is because we're not complaining about it right now that bullfighting should be ignored?

Would you ever cop the fúck on.

KeithAFC · 26-09-2011 10:06PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

No, there are groups and organisations which complain and do a lot to bring about awareness of such animal cruelty and try to change things.
Its just most people don't give a **** about it cuz its not them that's being tortured and abused and its all just fun and entertainment... Or if everything else fails, there's always the innane "its PC going too far" or "nanny state" arguments...

The reason most people don't complain is because most people eat meat and can't be arsed getting all upset over it.

Keith loads of people complain about circuses! And thanks for that lovely image keith before I head to bed! You must have a graphic imagination! Animals dont genrally spend long amounts of time in slaughter houses they are sent in stunned and then killed.

Not enough obviously. Thousands of people still attend them and don't care how animals are cared for. How many people would go into a shop and look for a box of eggs and seriously care if they are free range or factory farmed eggs. Not many is what I would say.

So we should just let all kinds of torture and cruelty continue because we benefit from an industry where it happens anyway(and hopefully rarely) ?

and people do complain about that circus cruelty but yet again, seriously, your argument there is because we're not complaining about it right now that bullfighting should be ignored?

Would you ever cop the fúck on.

No. Just pointing out the hypocrisy in regards to animal cruelty and how the general public only pick and choose what they deem to be OK cruelty and cruelty which is OK to moan about.

SV · 26-09-2011 10:07PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

No. Just pointing out the hypocrisy in regards to animal cruelty and how the general public only pick and choose what they deem to be OK cruelty and cruelty which is OK to moan about.

so in otherwords you don't actually have an argument for bullfighting to continue then?

Zebra3 · 26-09-2011 10:10PM

SV wrote: »

What's laughable is you not being able to do anything but post one liners and incapable of backing up what your one liners are saying.

No, what's laughable is someone claiming to respect an animal while killing it.

The actions of a hypocrite.

KeithAFC · 26-09-2011 10:10PM

SV wrote: »

so in otherwords you don't actually have an argument for bullfighting to continue then?

No. What I am saying is people pick and choose. It is the way we are. This is different because it has an important cultural aspect to it for many Spanish people.

steddyeddy · 26-09-2011 10:11PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

No. What I am saying is people pick and choose. It is the way we are. This is different because it has an important cultural aspect to it for many Spanish people.

Ok enough about what people do. Have you got an opinion on bull fighting as to why its not cruel?

KeithAFC · 26-09-2011 10:17PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Ok enough about what people do. Have you got an opinion on bull fighting as to why its not cruel?

Well how do you know it is? Can't the same argument be used for horse racing? The amount of horses which have died down the years at the grand national? Some animals just love being competitive.

I wish people would stop trying to ban everything which doesn't meet their ethics. Like fox hunting.

LH Pathe · 26-09-2011 10:29PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

I wish people would stop trying to ban everything which doesn't meet their ethics. Like fox hunting.

just remember foxes aren't really ever looking for a fight. all too often dragged out of their home in unfair numbers by bigger animals. With a general on horseback at the helm, that ethic I don't agree with.

At least the bullfighting is in essence a dual to the death between two willing combatants .. The impaler or the impaled think the Spanish bull run is a good indicator of how aggressive bulls are and how even the spaniard on the street likes to on the edge.. Are we scandinavian or what man.. Yawn...

af_thefragile · 26-09-2011 10:41PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

No. What I am saying is people pick and choose. It is the way we are. This is different because it has an important cultural aspect to it for many Spanish people.

So you say we either let all of unnecessary animal torture and suffering go on in this world and enjoy our meat. Or we ban all animal torture and suffering and quite eating meat in the process too?

That's a ridiculous argument because animal torture and suffering is a completely different thing from killing an animal for food.

sheesh · 26-09-2011 10:45PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

No, what's laughable is someone claiming to respect an animal while killing it.

The actions of a hypocrite.

not necessarily you could kill it to put it out of its misery. or if you were killing it for food you could make sure that it does not suffer.

you might not call it respect but some people would.

the problem here is that the word 'respect' can mean different things to different people.

LH Pathe · 26-09-2011 10:50PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

That's a ridiculous argument because animal torture and suffering is a completely different thing from killing an animal for food.

but those animals suffer a long drawn out sufferation, softened up for a cowardly kill where the combative bull is further bolstered, strenghtened - despite being already the most bullish strongest well endowed animal for battle

And gracefully he dies. a self motivated willing combatant in the battlefield. Any great loss? He died happy, that's the surreal thing

af_thefragile · 26-09-2011 10:52PM

KeithAFC wrote: »

Well how do you know it is? Can't the same argument be used for horse racing? The amount of horses which have died down the years at the grand national? Some animals just love being competitive.

I wish people would stop trying to ban everything which doesn't meet their ethics. Like fox hunting.

Why should people just stop trying to ban fox hunting. Maybe we should also bring back the apartheid, Gladiator fighting can be bought back too. Some people don't see anything wrong with human experimentation so we really shouldn't condone what happened in Auschwitz too (certainly most Germans were fine with it at the time)...

I know I'm being ridiculous but you see, we need to pull the line somewhere.

Horse racing - Horses are looked after by their owners and no horse dies while racing. Its not a blood sport. People have been riding horses for centuries and still do. The horses don't seem to mind it as riding the horse doesn't stress the animal.

Fox hunting - A terrified fox running through the woods scared for its life while being hunted down by a pack of vicious dogs only to be bitten, torn apart, shot and turned into a hat.

Bull fighting - A terrified and agitated bull trying to fight for its life a losing battle being struck repeatedly with spears until finally meeting a slow painful death by a sword piercing through its chest straight into its heart. Sometimes it takes even more than that for the bull to finally die while a large group of people cheer and applaud at the bull's misery.

Fishing - A fish getting caught in a hook (or net), pulled out of water, killed and eaten for food. Unless someone decides to make live sushi out of it...

See the difference there...

LH Pathe wrote: »

but those animals suffer a long drawn out sufferation, softened up for a cowardly kill where the combative bull is further bolstered, strenghtened - despite being already the most bullish strongest well endowed animal for battle

And gracefully he dies. a self motivated willing combatant in the battlefield. Any great loss? He died happy, that's the surreal thing

Doubt the bull sees it that way...

Paparazzo · 26-09-2011 10:54PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

No, what's laughable is someone claiming to respect an animal while killing it.

The actions of a hypocrite.

You won't like Old Man and the Sea:

"Fish, I love you and respect you very much. But I will kill you dead before this day ends."

KeithAFC · 26-09-2011 10:57PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

Why should people just stop trying to ban fox hunting. Maybe we should also bring back the apartheid, Gladiator fighting can be bought back too. Some people don't see anything wrong with human experimentation so we really shouldn't condone what happened in Auschwitz too (certainly most Germans were fine with it at the time)...

I know I'm being ridiculous but you see, we need to pull the line somewhere.

Horse racing - Horses are looked after by their owners and no horse dies while racing. Its not a blood sport. People have been riding horses for centuries and still do. The horses don't seem to mind it as riding the horse doesn't stress the animal.

Fox hunting - A terrified fox running through the woods scared for its life while being hunted down by a pack of vicious dogs only to be bitten, torn apart, shot and turned into a hat.

Bull fighting - A terrified and agitated bull trying to fight for its life a losing battle being struck repeatedly with spears until finally meeting a slow painful death by a sword piercing through its chest straight into its heart. Sometimes it takes even more than that for the bull to finally die while a large group of people cheer and applaud at the bull's misery.

Fishing - A fish getting caught in a hook (or net), pulled out of water, killed and eaten for food. Unless someone decides to make live sushi out of it...

See the difference there...

Doubt the bull sees it that way...

Horses don't die while racing? You should think again. They get whipped and made to do that massive grand national course every year until they either die or retire or even get a broken leg and then put down.

Vast amounts of people seem perfectly fine with that and even put bets on it. Hardly any questions about the horse deaths each year, just carry on as normal and forget about it.

af_thefragile · 26-09-2011 10:59PM

sheesh wrote: »

not necessarily you could kill it to put it out of its misery. or if you were killing it for food you could make sure that it does not suffer.

you might not call it respect but some people would.

the problem here is that the word 'respect' can mean different things to different people.

Respect as in you do not cause any additional pain and suffering to the animal that what is absolutely necessary. Death is an aspect of life. When we do it for our benefit, we need to do it in an humane manner with minimal suffering for the animal.

Torturing an animal before killing it, like for example leaving aside the bull fighting, keeping chicken in cramped and crowded caged living in a stressed environment with no space to move, killing it by bashing it against a wall or doing something inhumane which causes the animal to suffer before it finally dies and you can consume it. That's inhumane and needs to be condemned.

LH Pathe · 26-09-2011 10:59PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

Doubt the bull sees it that way...

the bull only sees red.

af_thefragile · 26-09-2011 11:01PM

^its actually colour blind so it can't really see red...

KeithAFC wrote: »

Horses don't die while racing? You should think again. They get whipped and made to do that massive grand national course every year until they either die or retire or even get a broken leg and then put down.

Vast amounts of people seem perfectly fine with that and even put bets on it. Hardly any questions about the horse deaths each year, just carry on as normal and forget about it.

Maybe someday we'll ban horse racing too or at least bring in regulations to make sure the horses are treated well and not stressed or injured.

Again as I said its about pulling a line...

LH Pathe · 26-09-2011 11:06PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

^its actually colour blind so it can't really see red...

you know how a bull sees things?

>>> at the fragile.

My name is URL · 26-09-2011 11:13PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BWrcZKOzs4

af_thefragile · 26-09-2011 11:19PM

LH Pathe wrote: »

you know how a bull sees things?

>>> at the fragile.

I saw it on Discovery channel... :pac:

KeithM89_old · 26-09-2011 11:29PM

inmyday wrote: »

Just **** off, I hate reading any of your posts on boards. Why are you back in after hours recently? You are not funny and just trying to annoy people, why are you on an irish website? ****

****ing ****

Well now you dont have to.
Banned

nice_very · 27-09-2011 01:22AM

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think it should not be banned. If the animal is used as meat after, then I see no problem with this.

THIS POST and the other posts you have made in this thread make me sick..

The animal IS used as meat afterwards, the best cuts go to the best restaurants where the richest people pay premium prices... Vaseline in the bull's eyes also gives it a disadvantage.

If you have ever watched, on spanish national TV: TVE1, TVE2 etc the glorification and downright torture that is called "sport/tradition" you would not think the same.. My brother and his wife were almost physically sick when I showed it to them, you will only see snippets of the bull charging the Toreador/Matador in Ireland ( Ole!) you will not see the whole thing.

@eve - Bien hecho Cataluna, espero que Euskadi hacen lo mismo, solo que los san fermines son una fuente de dinero para la economia de Navarra

KeithAFC · 27-09-2011 02:03AM

nice_very wrote: »

THIS POST and the other posts you have made in this thread make me sick..

The animal IS used as meat afterwards, the best cuts go to the best restaurants where the richest people pay premium prices... Vaseline in the bull's eyes also gives it a disadvantage.

If you have ever watched, on spanish national TV: TVE1, TVE2 etc the glorification and downright torture that is called "sport/tradition" you would not think the same.. My brother and his wife were almost physically sick when I showed it to them, you will only see snippets of the bull charging the Toreador/Matador in Ireland ( Ole!) you will not see the whole thing.

@eve - Bien hecho Cataluna, espero que Euskadi hacen lo mismo, solo que los san fermines son una fuente de dinero para la economia de Navarra

Show me a video then or something because many people will be sceptical of this. Of course it might be cruel to you but then so many things towards animals are cruel and nothing is said about it, the majority of the time anyway.

LH Pathe · 27-09-2011 02:17AM

It's just a bit of old scoil pageantry we have to put up with. look beyond the bull and see the beauty, the grace.. Rick stein's paella stall

RichieC · 27-09-2011 02:27AM

LH Pathe wrote: »

At least the bullfighting is in essence a dual to the death between two willing combatants .. The impaler or the impaled think the Spanish bull run is a good indicator of how aggressive bulls are and how even the spaniard on the street likes to on the edge.. Are we scandinavian or what man.. Yawn...

The animals are drugged before fights... and the combatant isn't willing, it's terrified for it's life and kicking off like you probably would feeling the same way.

Catalonia bans bullfighting

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