Catalonia bans bullfighting

steddyeddy

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/last-bullfight-held-barcelona-stadium-021850219.html

This is the last time catalonia will host a bullfight. Some say its more about politics than concern about animal welfare but a lot say whatever the reason the end result is welcome. I would say its a welocome end myself but Im open to peoples opinions.

So should bullfighting in general be banned or are people over reacting?

4leto

About fukcen time.

Temptamperu

Its horrible what the do to the cattle before a fight, like stabbing it and beating it to give the matador a chance :rolleyes:
Its a horrible sport and has no place in a modern setting.

Dionysus

I await nanny state...pc...nanny state...pc...nanny state...pc:rolleyes:

joshrogan

They should just bring back gladiator-style deathmatches and those who refuse to kill their opponent have the honey badgers set on them.

My name is URL

There's different types of bullfighting.. some far more brutal than others. I think the one where they lance the bull beforehand is barbaric and should be outlawed.

The type where the contest is (seemingly) more even are ok in my book.. I've said many times before on here that it builds local communities and bolsters local economies.. and the bull is eaten afterwards. It's a celebration of the animal as much as anything else. I really don't see that as any worse than the sterile industrialised slaughter of the animals which appear on our supermarket shelves. I've seen cows slaughtered by captive bolting, and it's not easier to watch than a bullfight, imo.

4leto

Sorry about my earlier rant, my position is this. Although animals do not have anywhere near or close to our intellect or power, but they can equally suffer.

If we don't have to be cruel to them, then don't be. Bullfighting to me is a hugely unnecessary cruelty.

stupidusername

My name is URL wrote: »

There's different types of bullfighting.. some far more brutal than others. I think the one where they lance the bull beforehand is barbaric and should be outlawed.

The type where the contest is (seemingly) more even are ok in my book.. I've said many times before on here that it builds local communities and bolsters local economies.. and the bull is eaten afterwards. It's a celebration of the animal as much as anything else. I really don't see that as any worse than the sterile industrialised slaughter of the animals which appear on our supermarket shelves. I've seen cows slaughtered by captive bolting, and it's not easier to watch than a bullfight, imo.

the difference is those cows aren't chased about in fear of their lives before they die.

steddyeddy

4leto wrote: »

Sorry about my earlier rant, my position is this. Although animals do not have anywhere near or close to our intellect or power, but they can equally suffer.

If we don't have to be cruel to them, then don't be. Bullfighting to me is a hugely unnecessary cruelty.

Thats a point thats over looked often. Chances are animals can suffer as much as we do. A lot have the same family ties we do and have bonds as strong as we do.

MonsterCookie

An ex-boss of mine attended a bull fight in Madrid a couple of years ago.

He and his wife went because they were curious even though both are from rural backgrounds and would have a lot of regard for animals.

They left prematurely because they found it so barbaric and disgusting. The crowd in their immediate vicinity did not take too kindly to this slur on their culture, and hurled insults as well as other physical items like food etc.

Some of the points that stick in my mind having heard of his experience include;

• The bull is drugged to slow his movement and reactions
• Music volume is quite loud in the stadium, to drown out the squeals of the poor animal
• The crowd cheers when the bull is slaughtered slowly, a little like most of us would cheer when we see a goal in soccer of gaa
• Nothing is done to limit the pain or suffering the animal goes through...quite the opposite in fact, they drag the arse out of it to maximise the audience's enjoyment

Like the op I'm open minded and would love to hear the case for not banning it. Just in case I'm missing something

Kevin Duffy

We all going to campaign to ban hare-coursing and welcome Spanish opposition?

Dangerous Man

About time. It's barbaric.

nacho libre

Temptamperu wrote: »

Its horrible what the do to the cattle before a fight, like stabbing it and beating it to give the matador a chance :rolleyes:
Its a horrible sport and has no place in a modern setting.

I would object to it being even called a sport.

Coeurdepirate

To echo others, about time!

super_furry

The thing about bullfighting is that it's actually really boring. Without going into the ethics of the spectacle, I think it's something that will die off through a lack of interest regardless. I went once about five years ago while on holiday and once you get over the initial shock value, the whole thing actually become quiet tedious.

My name is URL

stupidusername wrote: »

the difference is those cows aren't chased about in fear of their lives before they die.

As a thought-experiment, which would you consider to be worse? 1 person being killed in a somewhat bloody way, or 1000 people being lined up and killed humanely?

ger vallely

Personally I think it ought to be banned. Then again I know very little about bull fighting. Family members who have been to a couple of bull fights feel different. They say that the matador is a highly skilled person who obviously wants the bull dead. The sooner the better,before the matador gets injured.The matador generally aims the heart or throat to insure a quick death. Also the animal is treated very well (apparently) up until the time of his bull fight. After the fight the whole animal is butchered and sold as meat. Now as I have stated I am opposed to the whole idea and while on holiday in Spain and southern France I never attended a bull fight. But i would be very open to hearing more first hand accounts from people who have attended.

stupidusername

My name is URL wrote: »

As a thought-experiment, which would you consider to be worse? 1 person being killed in a somewhat bloody way, or 1000 people being lined up and killed humanely?

I would find that hard to answer, but what's that got to do with this?

sheesh

yes it should be banned but its up to the spanish and none of our business.

ItsAWindUp

At last!

steddyeddy

sheesh wrote: »

yes it should be banned but its up to the spanish and none of our business.

Well I dont know animal welfare is everyones concern.

Chuck Stone

My name is URL wrote: »

As a thought-experiment, which would you consider to be worse? 1 person being killed in a somewhat bloody way, or 1000 people being lined up and killed humanely?

Depends.

Killing one bull by torturing it to death does not save the lives of 1000 cows who are raised for meat.

Hercule Poirot

Well in that case we should ban horse racing, being whipped every day for years on end can't be much fun!?

Seriously though, it's part of Spain's heritage, if they want to ban it, then it's entirely up to them - if they don't want to, they don't have to either.

Zebra3

Maybe we can ban blood sports in Ireland now.

steddyeddy

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

Well in that case we should ban horse racing, being whipped every day for years on end can't be much fun!?

Seriously though, it's part of Spain's heritage, if they want to ban it, then it's entirely up to them - if they don't want to, they don't have to either.

Well thats one of the issues they (the spanish) dont want to ban bull fighting in general. It seems like the animal rights activists have engineered this.

Eve_Dublin

super_furry wrote: »

The thing about bullfighting is that it's actually really boring. Without going into the ethics of the spectacle, I think it's something that will die off through a lack of interest regardless. I went once about five years ago while on holiday and once you get over the initial shock value, the whole thing actually become quiet tedious.

Agreed. It's very popular here in Madrid among older men. I've accidently gone into bars during the day and it's only a bunch of auld fellas sitting around watching it. They'll all be dead within 15 years and there'll be no one left to support it. I've yet to meet anyone under the age of 55 who likes it.

This is just Catalonia giving the rest of Spain the two fingers. It's a nationalist move and another step to getting total autonomy and perhaps independence from the rest of the country. I don't believe it was a move based on the rights of animals but whatever...I don't have any strong feelings against the "sport" although I don't like it. This is the least of this county's worries right now.

steddyeddy

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Agreed. It's very popular here in Madrid among older men. I've accidently gone into bars during the day and it's only a bunch of auld fellas sitting around watching it. They'll all be dead within 15 years and there'll be no one left to support it. I've yet to meet anyone under the age of 55 who likes it.

This is just Catalonia giving the rest of Spain the two fingers. It's a nationalist move and another step to getting total autonomy and perhaps independence from the rest of the country. I don't believe it was a move based on the rights of animals but whatever...I don't have any strong feelings against the "sport" although I don't like it. This is the least of this county's worries right now.

That was my point about the politics involved and the fact that it doesnt seem to be up to the spanish people as previous posters have suggested.

im invisible

stupidusername wrote: »

the difference is those cows aren't chased about in fear of their lives before they die.

yeah, it makes the steak taste so much nicer...

My name is URL

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Depends.

Killing one bull by torturing it to death does not save the lives of 1000 cows who are raised for meat.

No, and ultimately it is all raised as meat.. but getting outraged by and demanding the banning of the former, while preaching about the merits of the latter doesn't make much sense.. to me at least. We kill thousands of cattle for every one killed in a Bullfighting ring. We'll never get to see 99.99% of what has been slaughtered for us, while those killing the animal in a stadium will enjoy the entire fruit of their labour.

I don't necessarily support or condone the sport as a legitimate one, but I can't see the logic in why people get so worked up about it either.

steddyeddy

My name is URL wrote: »

No, and ultimately it is all raised as meat.. but getting outraged by and demanding the banning of the former, while preaching about the merits of the latter doesn't make much sense.. to me at least. We kill thousands of cattle for every one killed in a Bullfighting ring. We'll never get to see 99.99% of what has been slaughtered for us, while those killing the animal in a stadium will enjoy the entire fruit of their labour.

I don't necessarily support or condone the sport as a legitimate one, but I can't see the logic in why people get so worked up about it either.

Theres a massive difference in the psychology of someone who wants to kill to eat and someone who enjoys watching torture for fun.

Zebra3

steddyeddy wrote: »

Theres a massive difference in the psychology of someone who wants to kill to eat and someone who enjoys watching torture for fun.

No, there's not.

stupidusername

im invisible wrote: »

yeah, it makes the steak taste so much nicer...

Exactly.

My name is URL wrote: »

No, and ultimately it is all raised as meat.. but getting outraged by and demanding the banning of the former, while preaching about the merits of the latter doesn't make much sense.. to me at least. We kill thousands of cattle for every one killed in a Bullfighting ring. We'll never get to see 99.99% of what has been slaughtered for us, while those killing the animal in a stadium will enjoy the entire fruit of their labour.

I don't necessarily support or condone the sport as a legitimate one, but I can't see the logic in why people get so worked up about it either.

My point wasn't about an animal being killed, it was about the stuff that goes on before it, that makes it a sport. If you're going to kill an animal, just kill it, there's no need to make it a sport.

Chuck Stone

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't necessarily support or condone the sport as a legitimate one, but I can't see the logic in why people get so worked up about it either.

It's the manner in which the animal dies that gets people's backs up I guess.

I just don't think bull-torturing should be viewed as some sort of macho achievment - as some sort of desirable thing to do or spectate at.

I understand your beef though.

af_thefragile

If people enjoy seeing blood, torture and killing, they should instead bring back the Roman's style Gladiator death matches. That way there'll at least be a fair competition between the one's fighting as to either of them losing their life rather than some poor, mostly helpless, animal being taunted and killed slowly.

steddyeddy

Zebra3 wrote: »

No, there's not.

Right thats rubbish.

af_thefragile

Zebra3 wrote: »

No, there's not.

When you kill an animal for food, you have respect for the animal and you kill it in the fastest and least painful way for the animal. Or at least that's how its supposed to be done in most cultures, sadly commercialism is changing this.

It is very different from enjoying watching a poor and mostly helpless animal being tortured merely for fun.


Same as when you're in a war, its fine to shoot and kill your opponent but you will be prosecuted for torturing the POWs.

KeithAFC

I think it should not be banned. If the animal is used as meat after, then I see no problem with this.

LH Pathe

I have yet to try a bull burrito. Keep in mind the bull is the only one ever doing the chasing if a pissed off mass of muscle with a bee in it's bonnet wants to impale you, why not make an occasional spectacle of it. Life on the edge. where else can you pull on a bandana n watch the greatest football team ever assembled til the small hours then stumble home howling at the moon. Without incident.. though the mental health services here would likely disagree

SV

Zebra3 wrote: »

No, there's not.

Troll McTrollerson

inmyday

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think it should not be banned. If the animal is used as meat after, then I see no problem with this.

Just **** off, I hate reading any of your posts on boards. Why are you back in after hours recently? You are not funny and just trying to annoy people, why are you on an irish website? ****

****ing ****

Warper

Here we go again - do gooders out to ruin everything. Lets ban horse-racing, fishing - oh no wait we eat fish and we eat animals so its ok to cage them all, nicely squashed together and then butchered for us to eat. Thats perfectly fine. But ya down with the bullfighting

af_thefragile

Warper wrote: »

Here we go again - do gooders out to ruin everything. Lets ban horse-racing, fishing - oh no wait we eat fish and we eat animals so its ok to cage them all, nicely squashed together and then butchered for us to eat. Thats perfectly fine. But ya down with the bullfighting

That is not perfectly fine... No animal should be kept in stressful conditions.

Warper

af_thefragile wrote: »

That is not perfectly fine... No animal should be kept in stressful conditions.

Do you eat chicken?

steddyeddy

Warper wrote: »

Here we go again - do gooders out to ruin everything. Lets ban horse-racing, fishing - oh no wait we eat fish and we eat animals so its ok to cage them all, nicely squashed together and then butchered for us to eat. Thats perfectly fine. But ya down with the bullfighting

Do gooders? A do gooder is someone who wants to mimise suffering? Seriously??

Zebra3

af_thefragile wrote: »

When you kill an animal for food, you have respect for the animal

Laughable.

Kevin Duffy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Do gooders? A do gooder is someone who wants to mimise suffering? Seriously??

Is that not political correctness gone mad? Or am I thinking of elf and safety gone mad? Or is it bleeding-heart liberal do-gooders gone mad? Feck, no, what am I saying? It's the nanny state gone mad, isn't it? Well, we can agree someone's gone mad. Probably didn't think of the children either, on account of they've gone mad.

SV

Zebra3 wrote: »

Laughable.

What's laughable is you not being able to do anything but post one liners and incapable of backing up what your one liners are saying.

Eve_Dublin

steddyeddy wrote: »

That was my point about the politics involved and the fact that it doesnt seem to be up to the spanish people as previous posters have suggested.

Was typing my comment as you posted.

Warper

steddyeddy wrote: »

Do gooders? A do gooder is someone who wants to mimise suffering? Seriously??

Again, do you eat meat?

Chuck Stone

So the only people who have any moral credibility condenming bull-torturing are strict vegans?

Is that the argument?

steddyeddy

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Is that not political correctness gone mad? Or am I thinking of elf and safety gone mad? Or is it bleeding-heart liberal do-gooders gone mad? Feck, no, what am I saying? It's the nanny state gone mad, isn't it? Well, we can agree someone's gone mad. Probably didn't think of the children either, on account of they've gone mad.

Whats mad is the neat little boxs people place each other in, liberal, do gooder ect.