What can you kill with a SAM-7 ?

Cork boy 55 · 02-09-2011 3:19pm

jimmybeen wrote: »

Hi, location was falklands, some sort of argy missile.
but I have been looking up types of explosive, for sam 7 / Strela
very thin casing and most of the energy ends up as fireball and blast/shock wave.
The characteristics of this weapon category are the creation of a large fireball and good
blast performance.
which sound like the type of injuries, but I am still unsure if a sam 7 can be pointed at such a position and fired,

Libya did provide 120 SAM-7 to Argentina during the war

I don't see why its cannot just be pointed and shot,
I know that it can be fired without a target or lock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4RN8pH8liQ&feature=related

concussion · 02-09-2011 6:23pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

I think a basic SAM might be confused by the heat signals radiating off hot ground or from vehicles.

regards
Stovepipe

This fact hinders the use of basic IR missiles in hilly terrain - you get a lot of clutter. From what little we know of this incident, I tend to agree that it would have been a HEAT round rather than a SAM.

jimmybeen · 02-09-2011 6:40pm

concussion wrote: »

This fact hinders the use of basic IR missiles in hilly terrain - you get a lot of clutter. From what little we know of this incident, I tend to agree that it would have been a HEAT round rather than a SAM.

Hi, it would have been fired from one plateau to another with flat ground inbetween for 1k, it was definitley a rocket of some sort,

Stovepipe · 02-09-2011 9:01pm

@jimmybeen, the Argentinians had the 106mm bazooka and some types of recoilless rifle and also used aircraft unguided rocket (68mm) launchers on the ground, which is what the Libyan rebels are also doing these days.
regards
Stovepipe

whydave · 06-09-2011 5:19am

surprise ,surprise ....... Al-Qaeda acquires missiles in Libya !
more here

whydave · 06-09-2011 3:06pm

A rebel takes stock of weapons and ammunition in a munitions storage hanger at a government military base which they captured in Ajdabiyah, on March 1, 2011.

Cork boy 55 · 11-09-2011 8:16pm

Interesting CNN report on it

Not sure about the soucre some NGO guy talking to CNN

3 points
Libya had Igla misslies which are more modern and far superior MANPads
than the sAM7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K38_Igla

The figure of 20,000 is mentioned again

He also mentions that the MANPAD are the number one item for lootors at arms depots.
Why? is that because they belive they can sell them back to government or NGO's or nato for cash???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpZRSN8zUS8&feature=grec_index

Victor · 17-09-2011 7:34pm

Individually, such weapons don't have a huge military merit, however, if you have several of them, with other weapons, they are a realistic threat / defence. In 2003, 100+ Apaches attacked what they believed was a tank division south of Baghdad, but was infact an anti-aircraft trap. Something like 79 of the helicopters were damaged, although none were shot down.

whydave wrote: »

A rebel takes stock of weapons and ammunition in a munitions storage hanger at a government military base which they captured in Ajdabiyah, on March 1, 2011.

No smoking please!

whydave · 21-09-2011 9:29am

Weapons control NTC style !!!!

whydave · 05-10-2011 3:05pm

Missiles looted from Tripoli arms warehouse !!!
( link )

Victor · 06-10-2011 11:08am

whydave wrote: »

Missiles looted from Tripoli arms warehouse !!!
( link )

CNN wrote:

Missile 9M342

9M342 is the model number, not the serial number. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/9k338.htm

johngalway · 06-10-2011 12:07pm

whydave wrote: »

Found it, told you my filing system worked!

alanmcqueen · 06-10-2011 9:23pm

"Individually, such weapons don't have a huge military merit, however, if you have several of them, with other weapons, they are a realistic threat / defence. In 2003, 100+ Apaches attacked what they believed was a tank division south of Baghdad, but was infact an anti-aircraft trap. Something like 79 of the helicopters were damaged, although none were shot down."

Any source/link for that story please? Thanks.

Victor · 06-10-2011 9:55pm

Air Forces Monthly towards the end of 2003 - a contract had been awarded for the repair of the helicopters. I don't have that copy to hand.

I did find: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache

The AH-64 took part in invasion of Iraq in 2003 during Operation Iraqi Freedom.[79] In one engagement on 24 March 2003, 31 Apaches were damaged, and one Apache was shot down and captured by Iraqi troops near Karbala.[80] The intended attack against an armored brigade of the Iraqi Republican Guard's Medina Division was unsuccessful. The tank crews had set up a "flak trap" amongst terrain and employed their guns to good effect.[81][82] Iraqi officials claimed a farmer with a Brno rifle shot down the Apache,[83] but the farmer denied involvement.[84] The helicopter came down intact, and both the pilot and co-pilot were captured.[81] The AH-64D was destroyed via air strike the following day.[85][86]

Most Apache helicopters that have taken heavy combat damage have been able to continue their missions and return safely.[82] In 2006, an Apache helicopter was downed by a Soviet-made Strela 2 (SA-7) in Iraq. The Apache is typically able to avoid hits by such missiles but in this instance it did not.[87] The coordination of Apaches in the war was discussed by Thomas Adams, who noted the helicopters tended to fight in small teams but had little autonomy to react to local threats and opportunities, requiring lengthy dialogue with command structures in an effort to centrally micromanage each unit.[88] As of 2009, 12 Apache helicopters were shot down by enemy fire during the Iraq War.[citation needed]

I had thought it was 22 March, the day before the shoot down of 85-25407.

Other losses: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aviation_shootdowns_and_accidents_during_the_Iraq_War

alanmcqueen · 06-10-2011 10:44pm

Many thanks Victor, appreciated.

whydave · 21-02-2012 2:16pm

Two caches with 43 anti-aircraft missiles and other weaponry have been unveiled in Algeria. Local security forces say the arsenal was smuggled in from Libya and buried near the border.
The two caches were found near the town of In Amenas, in southern Algeria on the Libyan border. That is according to Algerian daily El Watan, which cited on Monday an unnamed security official. One cache contained Russian 9K338 Igla-S (NATO reporting name SA-24 Grinch) and 9K32 Strela-2 (SA-7 Grail) shoulder-fired surface-to-air missile systems – all taken from the arsenals of Libya’s former leader, the late Muammar Gaddafi.

More here

whydave · 30-04-2013 11:53am

Link

tac foley · 30-04-2013 3:44pm

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Mayday aka Air Crash Investigations on the Discovery Channel did a decent dramatisation of it. The plane lost all hydraulics and was the first plane in aviation history to successfully land without hydraulics.

Not strictly true, as every aircraft ever built BEFORE the incorporation of hydraulically-operated/assisted controls landed without them.

tac

whydave · 16-05-2013 11:02am

''In a move that could dramatically increase the number of serviceable man-portable air defence systems (MANPADS) in the hands of non-state actors, a group affiliated with the Free Syrian Army (FSA) has released a video detailing how it improvised a power pack to keep a Strela-2 (SA-7 'Grail') MANPADS operational and has offered to provide further advice to other groups.
Most MANPADS come in boxes containing two missiles and four batteries. However, the batteries last less than a minute, providing little time to lock on to a target, which is a particularly serious problem for inexperienced operators who find it difficult to judge when an aircraft is inside the system's engagement envelope. The system effectively becomes useless once all the available batteries have been used.''

Link

Gott · 16-05-2013 5:48pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Two SA-7 missiles were fired at an israeli flight in Mombassa a few years back and they both missed.

There are suggestions that the Israeli Charter flight launched flares, which does make you marvel at the Israelis determination not to lose a plane!

If I remember correctly all Israeli planes (El-Al flights, I'm supposing) carry counter-measures to defeat MANPADS. Not to mention most of their pilots are ex-Air Force and I'm not surprised they failed.

The Israelis might be very paranoid but their record speaks for itself.

galwaycyclist · 16-05-2013 6:00pm

Gott wrote: »

If I remember correctly all Israeli planes (El-Al flights, I'm supposing) carry counter-measures to defeat MANPADS. Not to mention most of their pilots are ex-Air Force and I'm not surprised they failed.

The Israelis might be very paranoid but their record speaks for itself.

Probably most of their airline pilots are also active pilots in the air force reserve and putting in hours on military aircraft on a regular basis.

whydave · 17-05-2013 10:00am

All true but what about Turkish airlines or Ryanair ?

andy_g · 18-05-2013 11:09pm

whydave wrote: »

All true but what about Turkish airlines or Ryanair ?

Turkish Airlines on some of their new A/C have counter measures. Ryanair hmm think ya can answer that one Dave.

Gott · 20-05-2013 2:29pm

andy_g wrote: »

Turkish Airlines on some of their new A/C have counter measures. Ryanair hmm think ya can answer that one Dave.

Pay an extra few thousand on the €19.99 to have your flight equipped with IR and electronic countermeasures :pac:

Cork boy 55 · 21-05-2013 11:46pm

After all this time there was not been a MANPADS fired in Anger in North Africa that I know of, most importantly no reports in MALI war of them being fired or discovered in caches that I know of ,
despite the fact that Jihadist/turag rebels in Mali where in place for over a year and
had direct links/smuggling routes to Libya and despite bringing all sorts of weapons into Mali failed to get or deploy MANPADS why?

The Syrian rebels are CRAZZY desperate for Air defense weapons and have close links to Libya
it is suspected that Qatar and perhaps others powers have smuggled weapons from Libya to Syria mostly old soviet/russian stuff so I will assume that all or most available MANPADS have been sent into the hands of Syrias rebels by their allies in Libya.
Syrian rebels have also captured large numbers of them in addition to any smuggled.
Also it appear that Syrian rebels are firing off ever one they get to the point as shown earlier they are modified the battery system as shown earlier to get semi-working ones.
and this war ain't going end soon .

All assumptions of course but in looks like the Syrian war will swallow up any working or most working MANPADS that may be in Libya that have not been brought up by Yanks yet.
and the potential threat to Civil Aviation is far far less than it was at End of Libyan revolution.

Video playlists of MANPADS IN syria

Russian/Soviet 43
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_UXL3UAW7U&list=PLPC0Udeof3T5aSHelR-x51n0iGDr14Nl_
Chinese(FS-6) 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZgIZqAB7Ao&list=PLPC0Udeof3T7yvmzc2Dv93BRyy5fQ4rqW

whydave · 13-06-2013 9:37am

Al Qaeda believed to be in possession of fearsome missile launcher after instruction manual is discovered at Mali training camp

26-page document found in building occupied by terror group in Timbuktu
Contains detailed guide, photos and diagrams of SA-7 surface-to-air missile
Thought to be excerpt from terror encyclopedia edited by Osama bin Laden
Weapons, known as MANPADS, capable of bringing down commercial plane
Terror expert: 'Why bother to write guide if you don't have the weapons?'
Likely to have come from arms depots of Libyan dictator Colonel Gaddafi
France is now taking precautions with aircraft during offensive in Mali

link

whydave · 13-08-2013 2:17pm

400 US surface-to-air missiles were 'STOLEN' from Libya during the Benghazi attack and are 'now in the hands of Al Qaeda', claims whistleblower
link

Cork boy 55 · 13-08-2013 8:34pm

FN-6 MANPADS(Chinese made) are appearing in Syria in rebel hands
Whatever the wider debate about supplying them with Arms
This is insane given the risk of proliferation and threat to civil aviation
There where others option for air defense for them which would have negated the risk to civil aviation.
Qatar needs to be spoken to IMO assuming of course all this is true.

on the plus side they appear to be pretty crap at shooting things done
“Most of the FN-6s that we got didn’t work,” he said. He said two of them had exploded as they were fired, killing two rebels and wounding four others."

New York Times
By C. J. CHIVERS and ERIC SCHMITT
Published: August 12, 2013

Syrian rebels, frustrated by the West’s reluctance to provide arms, have found a supplier in an unlikely source: Sudan, a country that has been under international arms embargoes and maintains close ties with a stalwart backer of the Syrian government, Iran.
In deals that have not been publicly acknowledged, Western officials and Syrian rebels say, Sudan’s government sold Sudanese- and Chinese-made arms to Qatar, which arranged delivery through Turkey to the rebels

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/world/africa/arms-shipments-seen-from-sudan-to-syria-rebels.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0

Victor · 14-08-2013 1:53am

whydave wrote: »

400 US surface-to-air missiles were 'STOLEN' from Libya during the Benghazi attack and are 'now in the hands of Al Qaeda', claims whistleblower
link

While it may explain some of the hullabaloo about the incident, I think the article is adding 1+1 and getting 53. Why use a SAM against a building when a basic rocket would be cheaper, more reliable and more effective.

whydave · 14-08-2013 11:24am

Victor wrote: »

While it may explain some of the hullabaloo about the incident, I think the article is adding 1+1 and getting 53. Why use a SAM against a building when a basic rocket would be cheaper, more reliable and more effective.

The fact that a large number of men from the EU have taken up arms in Libya Syria, these weapons(those with the knowledge to use them) may find there way up north to the EU.You may say that the Governments will be able to stop the movement of these weapon but remember that said governments are unable to stop the movement of tonnes of drugs and thousands of people into the EU zone.
Also these weapons have been fired at aircraft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwqden8pEww

What can you kill with a SAM-7 ?

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