(US) Don't Ask Don't Tell officially repealed

Dangerous Man · 20-09-2011 11:40PM

Rawhead wrote: »

I take it that you have heard the whole tape and not the 58 seconds that are played here. The person he was talking to was probably a forward air controller who would have been looking directly at the people in question. The fighting in Fallujha was some of the fiercest of the last 50 years and I would have no doubt that was a group of armed enemy combatants.

Like me to justify anything else. I hope you are typing your replies on a solar powered computer made in a wave powered factory and transported to your local eco shop by a sail boat.

The PILOT DIDN'T KNOW WHO THEY FOR FUCK'S SAKE! HOW THE HELL WOULD YOU KNOW ANYTHING?

I did see the whole tape when it first came out and the point is that the pilot did not know who the people were. He radioed his base explaining the situation. Base told him to fire with no knowledge of who the people on the ground were. It was all over the news when it happened.

Anyway, I'm done talking to you. (I'm surprised at myself for even bothering to begin with.)

A Primal Nut · 20-09-2011 11:43PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

No, from those still in. The argument goes that they are now forced to lose their privacy from those known to be sexually oriented towards them as they share showers or whatnot and there is now a known discrimination in the Army: I can't think of a legal principle why soldiers should be separated on the presumption of sexual orientation (i.e. female and male showers) which doesn't also apply in the case of homosexuals. It will be an interesting court case. Personally, I think the simplest and fairest solution is for everybody to get over their inhibitions and share facilities. It's far cheaper and easier logistically for starters.

But straight and gay men have shared facilities in many other environments other than the US army - have their been any lawsuits in other situations regarding this?

Seachmall · 20-09-2011 11:47PM

Rawhead wrote: »

That video was 58 seconds long, taken during a battle that lasted weeks and the poster thinks it's in context, get a grip.

But they undoubtedly fucked up in that instance. You might have explanations as to why they fucked up but they fucked up and innocent people are dead as a result. Other countries fuck up too of course but they don't have the arrogant image that the US have which may be unjustified but isn't entirely fictional either and as a result of that image they receive heavy criticism.

And given the power and influence the US have in the world I welcome any and all criticism sent in that direction. The more powerful you are the more you need to be grounded, that's just the way it is.

A Primal Nut wrote:

the US would destroy any other army in history apart

The comment was that US soldiers are the best in history. They're not. It wasn't a statement of military power or ammunitions it was a statement of the "warriors". The "warriors" of any country today are incomparable to the warriors of the ancient world.

gargleblaster · 20-09-2011 11:49PM

Rawhead wrote: »

It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that Iraq was about oil as is Libya which is a French and British backed operation but they are not being lambasted about it.

That is annoying all right.

You know what they say, though: It's lonely at the top.

Irish Guitarist · 21-09-2011 12:33AM

I'm glad the US army put an end to this discrimination. Now they can concentrate on killing Muslims.

Manic Moran · 21-09-2011 01:36AM

Seachmall wrote: »

But they undoubtedly fucked up in that instance. You might have explanations as to why they fucked up but they fucked up and innocent people are dead as a result.

What is your basis for this assertion? Unless you have information I don't, and I'll be happy to read it, all we have is a short video clip from which it is impossible to ascertain anything other than that a lot of people were likely killed. Who they were, what they were doing, what US forces knew or believed are all completely unknown to us.

The PILOT DIDN'T KNOW WHO THEY FOR ****'S SAKE!

As mentioned earlier, he doesn't need to. If he's talking to a requesting ground unit, he's just a delivery system.

HOW THE HELL WOULD YOU KNOW ANYTHING?

A question which applies to every person partaking in this discussion. We don't know anything, which is why it is impossible to make any determinations about the background to this incident.

I did see the whole tape when it first came out and the point is that the pilot did not know who the people were. He radioed his base explaining the situation. Base told him to fire with no knowledge of who the people on the ground were.

And your evidence that he was talking to 'base', or that the person with whom he was conversing had no knowledge of who was on the ground is...?

But straight and gay men have shared facilities in many other environments other than the US army - have their been any lawsuits in other situations regarding this?

What other countries do is fairly irrelevant. The US has a reputation as a fairly litigous country for a reason.

NTM

LH Pathe · 21-09-2011 01:51AM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I'm glad the US army put an end to this discrimination. Now they can concentrate on killing Muslims.

well I claimed the sports arena was the most absolute no-go for coming out. sort of overlooked this one place where even the women are expected to man up in proving how depraved they are.. gays will never be accepted there, ever. unless it becomes an even more depraved african jailhouse type scenario where john mongrel is top dog hmmm.. even away from the barracks are folks so sure this type of abu torture has not been utilized?

JupiterKid · 21-09-2011 02:17AM

LH Pathe wrote: »

well I claimed the sports arena was the most absolute no-go for coming out. sort of overlooked this one place where even the women are expected to man up in proving how depraved they are.. gays will never be accepted there, ever. unless it becomes an even more depraved african jailhouse type scenario where john mongrel is top dog hmmm.. even away from the barracks are folks so sure this type of abu torture has not been utilized?

Oh really? I think you'll find that gay service members have been accepted in most armies in the Western world that did away with bans years ago. Sounds to me like you don't want gay people to be accepted or are a complete pessimist.

LH Pathe · 21-09-2011 02:27AM

Sorry I forgot to state the US.

different culture, different vulture

Deki · 21-09-2011 02:27AM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I'm glad the US army put an end to this discrimination. Now they can concentrate on killing Muslims.

Why limit ourselves?;)

Really though I can't think of any one who raised an Army, trained it, armed it and sent it out to make friends

Yitzhak Rabin · 21-09-2011 04:04AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

What other countries do is fairly irrelevant. The US has a reputation as a fairly litigous country for a reason.

NTM

But surely other organisations where being openly gay is fine have shared facilities and have not faced lawsuits. Schools, gyms, universities, sports clubs etc. All are segregated along lines of presumed sexual orientation as you say, yet AFAIK they don't face lawsuits as a result.

Pompey Magnus · 21-09-2011 04:28AM

The_Thing wrote: »

I doubt there's any poofters in the Taliban.

You might be surprised. There are tribes of Taliban fighters from Kandahar whose fighters are transvestites.

Also there is the horrible practice (well at least horrible to the majority of Irish people) of "bacha bazi" or "boy play" which is still practiced in Afghanistan where adult Afghan men engage in pederasty with young adolescent boys.

LH Pathe · 21-09-2011 04:36AM

Such is rife the world over. no walk of life is untouched it may seem like dire straits to most but here we are, expected to accept. shît we nearly made one president, maybe it was on such merits in current climes.

/pardon myself that comes across overly homophobic. the perils of being a man's man. And ironically nothing sounds gayer, right. but it's actually real breakthrough did not realize they were not actually allowed to come out, that is completely counter productive and defeats the purpose. Woo-ah.

Manic Moran · 21-09-2011 07:13AM

yekahS wrote: »

But surely other organisations where being openly gay is fine have shared facilities and have not faced lawsuits. Schools, gyms, universities, sports clubs etc. All are segregated along lines of presumed sexual orientation as you say, yet AFAIK they don't face lawsuits as a result.

This is true, but unlike in the Army, you are not, as best I can recall, forced to take showers at specific times with specific persons. If one has issue with the orientation of a college-mate or ultimate frisbee team-mate, just chill out for fifteen minutes after the game until he's done before taking the shower, then stroll in. If I failed, however, to shower in the specific time block as instructed by the good sergeant, punishment would ensue.

NTM

Seachmall · 21-09-2011 09:30AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

What is your basis for this assertion? Unless you have information I don't, and I'll be happy to read it, all we have is a short video clip from which it is impossible to ascertain anything other than that a lot of people were likely killed. Who they were, what they were doing, what US forces knew or believed are all completely unknown to us.

I'll actually have to apologise for that, I assumed it was this video that was posted. (I just saw a screenshot of the video in the context of a gun-ship shooting innocents and assumed it was the famous "collateral murder" one). Ya, I don't know anything about the video posted, assume my posts were in reference to this video.

miss no stars · 21-09-2011 09:58AM

LH Pathe wrote: »

Such is rife the world over. no walk of life is untouched it may seem like dire straits to most but here we are, expected to accept. shît we nearly made one president, maybe it was on such merits in current climes.

/pardon myself that comes across overly homophobic. the perils of being a man's man. And ironically nothing sounds gayer, right. but it's actually real breakthrough did not realize they were not actually allowed to come out, that is completely counter productive and defeats the purpose. Woo-ah.

what. the. fcuk?!

Pardoning yourself doesn't excuse it. It's not a peril of being a man's man, it's homophobia.

(US) Don't Ask Don't Tell officially repealed

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