Console Ban 3-9-11 (Mod Warning Post #755)

MickeyD · 18-09-2011 08:32PM

its possible to mod a consumer hard drive to work with the 360 (i.e. doesnt require you to open your 360) but i assume this would give a different "X value" if you were banned for it (no idea how that X val thing works).

I believe ap25 works by measuring the time it takes to access certain sections of the disc and if its quicker or slower than what's normal then the xbox thinks you're being naughty. It's possible if your drive or disk is damaged it could report values out of the normal ranges and flag you, but MS have probably accounted for this somehow.

NORTH1 · 19-09-2011 03:56PM

One of a number of E-mails sent to me by accident to-day.

Hi guys

I’ve just received a complaint from our GM in relation to the above. I believe the end user has already been on to customer care however he is now escalating this issue via local media including “price watch”. I need to close this down immediately particularly since we are launch Gears of War 3 tonight – and I am expecting media from Today FM and people from boards.ie to attend the event.

I need your assistance on this issue – to close out. Mike / Rob can you please see what transpired with this customer via CS. Anouska/Sinead can you share any prior incidences with us on anything that happened in EMEA. I will set up a call for 2pm today. Nora / Emma can you follow our process on media logs and also check to see what other coverage this is generating locally.

Thanks

Jackie

Note the comment on monitoring media log and generating local coverage I believe that was brought up in this thread!

And the conclusion and answer that was then sent to me

I look after Escalated Xbox complaints for the European region, the Irish Microsoft team, has brought your complaint to my attention.

The responsibility for dealing with cases of this nature, is my teams, and therefore we have full ownership, I understand you didn’t want to speak to the Escalations team again, sorry that the Irish team cannot help you directly.

Firstly I would like to apologise fully, if your experience with support has been an unsatisfactory one to date, this is never our intention.

We do understand your request to obtain the reason for your console banning, unfortunately our Support and Escalations teams don’t have the specific reasons to provide you with, please see below which offers guidance on banning reasons.
We’ve designed the Xbox LIVE service to help create a place where our members can interact and have fun online. To help protect that experience for our customers, the Xbox LIVE Enforcement team monitors the service for behavior that violates the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use and Code of Conduct. Violations of the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use and the Code of Conduct can result in a variety of actions, up to and including a permanent suspension of a console from connecting to Xbox LIVE. This page details some of the reasons that a console could be permanently suspended from the service.
We take console suspensions seriously, and only take such action after a lengthy investigation by multiple teams. When a console is suspended from accessing the service, it will display the following message:
“This console has been banned for violations of the Terms of Use. To protect the Xbox LIVE service and its members, Microsoft does not provide details about console bans. There is no recourse for Terms of Use violations.”
Consoles can be suspended from Xbox LIVE for a number of reasons including, but not limited to:
· Console tampering: Physically opening the Xbox and modifying it to play illegitimate software.
· Online fraud: Attempting to socially engineer users, take over Xbox LIVE accounts or other fraudulent activities.
· Repeat egregious violations: Multiple actions taken on accounts on the console by the Enforcement team for disrupting the service or impacting users.
Note Customer Support for Xbox LIVE cannot undo an Xbox LIVE suspension for a console. Xbox LIVE console suspensions may also include permanent suspensions of Xbox LIVE accounts as well.
To avoid a console suspension, please review and follow the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use and Code of Conduct. We also recommend that you purchase Xbox 360 consoles new from reputable retail stores because previous owners may have violated the Terms of Use agreement which can lead to the console being suspended. Warranties on Xbox consoles are not transferable from the previous owner.
Everyone on the Xbox and Xbox LIVE teams wants our members to have the best possible experience on our service. By following the Terms of Use and Code of Conduct, you can help us work to create safe and enjoyable experiences while enjoying Xbox LIVE
In order to protect the Xbox Live Service and Xbox Live members, we do not provide specific details about console banning, Microsoft will not ban a console, without over-whelming evidence that it has been used to violate the Code of Conduct or Terms of Use. There is no appeal for a console ban.
I am sorry we are unable to satisfy your request, but myself and my team remain committed to helping you in any other way we can.
Kind regards
Rob Warwick

As you can see media attention is the only thing that makes these people stand to attention. They are completely ignorant to the fact that there is some kind of error in there process.

Who from Boards.ie is going to this thing tonight?

CramCycle · 19-09-2011 04:23PM

In order to protect the Xbox Live Service and Xbox Live members, we do not provide specific details about console banning, Microsoft will not ban a console, without over-whelming evidence that it has been used to violate the Code of Conduct or Terms of Use. There is no appeal for a console ban.
I am sorry we are unable to satisfy your request, but myself and my team remain committed to helping you in any other way we can.
Kind regards
Rob Warwick

Suggested response:

Dear Rob Warwick,

Sorry to hear that you are unable to un-ban consoles. In leiu of un-banning my console, a new console will suffice. I think this is fair and reasonable as after reading through your Code of Conduct and Terms of Use I can conclude that I have not violated either, in any way shape or form.

You cannot or have not provided any proof that I have which would lead me to believe that you have none and your company is in error (I would presume unintentionally at this point). The onus is on you to provide proof, as I can (and will if requested) provide proof that I have not violated any aforementioned conditions.

Awaiting your reply,

Sincerely

N1

hightower1 · 19-09-2011 04:24PM

NORTH1 wrote: »

I'm very confused, what your talking about here is changing game environment and surely that has to be linked to the profile that is doing the editing and has nothing to do with the console itself?!.

Yes and no, it depends on what you do with the software, in some cases you can meerly download game sames to usb then from usb transfer that save to the hard drive and the game registers it as progress and nothing abnormal... no harm done and no need to flag this.

For some of the stuff you can get through the software though will be things like avatar items and gamer pictures. As these are simply just info logs on the hard drive the console itself takes no notice however when MS run a check on your console (I would imagine thats a batch process hence ban waves rather than sparadic ones) they can reconsile how many items you have, when you got them, what transaction was attached to these etc. So say for instance they see you have a hat for your avatar, they also see you never added points to your GT? The question is now how did you get something on your GT that you can or should only really have got through paying MS? Hence the deeper investiagtion and possible ban.

No real way to check if something like this was done from your side anyway. Only MS would really know this.

*just to note this isnt a lession in how to go about this stuff just as a possible example of what could have happend and seems relevant to THIS thread only.

me-skywalker · 19-09-2011 04:33PM

garv123 wrote: »

since a court order is needed for any of that to happen.

ooh yea they need a court order to surf the web... pfft failed!

darklighter wrote: »

On another point, you can be sure that MS and/or its PR reps (like all large companies) keeps track of what is being written about it on the net. This doesnt involve loads of people looking at a screen all day. A computer program catalogues all references using key-words and flags anything of relevance. If this wave of console bans does turn out to be a gigantic screw-up that is going to end up in litigation, you can be sure it will hit the desk of the CEO sooner rather than later.

NORTH1 wrote: »

As you can see media attention is the only thing that makes these people stand to attention. They are completely ignorant to the fact that there is some kind of error in there process.

Who from Boards.ie is going to this thing tonight?

Escalte this yourself. Irish Consumer Regulator, National Consumer Agenxy, Citizens Information. Select the posts from this thread send to the broadsheets, the red tops, the Late Night phone rubbish, Joe Duffy etc etc

Helix · 19-09-2011 04:50PM

CramCycle wrote: »

Suggested response:

Dear Rob Warwick,

Sorry to hear that you are unable to un-ban consoles. In leiu of un-banning my console, a new console will suffice. I think this is fair and reasonable as after reading through your Code of Conduct and Terms of Use I can conclude that I have not violated either, in any way shape or form.

You cannot or have not provided any proof that I have which would lead me to believe that you have none and your company is in error (I would presume unintentionally at this point). The onus is on you to provide proof, as I can (and will if requested) provide proof that I have not violated any aforementioned conditions.

Awaiting your reply,

Sincerely

N1

north, you need to do this, absolutely

tell them you would appreciate a phone call to confirm when you can take receipt of your new console

hightower1 · 19-09-2011 05:26PM

me-skywalker wrote: »

Joe Duffy etc etc

Seriously? Anyone with even half a brain knows this clown only bear baits curtain twitchers and is just about the most uninformed tripe most of the country has ever heard.

"Now lets talk about console bans, caller 1..."

"Caller1: Terrible Joes, all the bans Joe, something has to be done Joe. I blame the government Joe"

"Now lets talk about the rise in gang based crime, caller 2..."

"Caller1: Terrible Joes, all the crime Joe, something has to be done Joe. I blame the government Joe"

Urgh. OP , DONT go that route. Honestly.

mehfesto · 19-09-2011 06:24PM

hightower1 wrote: »

Seriously? Anyone with even half a brain knows this clown only bear baits curtain twitchers and is just about the most uninformed tripe most of the country has ever heard.

"Now lets talk about console bans, caller 1..."

"Caller1: Terrible Joes, all the bans Joe, something has to be done Joe. I blame the government Joe"

"Now lets talk about the rise in gang based crime, caller 2..."

"Caller1: Terrible Joes, all the crime Joe, something has to be done Joe. I blame the government Joe"

Urgh. OP , DONT go that route. Honestly.

It's not a bad option given how important they view the media coverage of themselves to be.

Ray D'arcy would be another one - not great, but if you can complain to 100,000+ people instantly with the cold hard facts you have here, I'd bet they wouln't be long in offering a new console and then some.

Raze_them_all · 19-09-2011 07:41PM

Don't go Joe duffy. Seriously. That show is a ****in uninformed disgrace.

He';d probably ask why sony are treating you so badly.

darklighter · 19-09-2011 09:19PM

NORTH1 wrote: »

One of a number of E-mails sent to me by accident to-day.

Note the comment on monitoring media log and generating local coverage I believe that was brought up in this thread!

And the conclusion and answer that was then sent to me

As you can see media attention is the only thing that makes these people stand to attention. They are completely ignorant to the fact that there is some kind of error in there process.

Who from Boards.ie is going to this thing tonight?

Those e-mails actually came from MS??

Bleeding heck, serious lack of intelligence if the first one was sent to you :eek: E-mail 101 teaches you to check whom you address mails too.

Does show that the media interest is the only thing they care about. Its abit late now to do anything for the Gears launch but they'll be going all out press wise for Battlefield, CoD, Halo and Fifa over the next few weeks so plenty of opportunity to kick up a stink!

RuggieBear · 19-09-2011 09:40PM

darklighter wrote: »

Those e-mails actually came from MS??

Bleeding heck, serious lack of intelligence if the first one was sent to you :eek: E-mail 101 teaches you to check whom you address mails too.

Microsoft don't make mistakes....

MrVestek · 19-09-2011 09:51PM

darklighter wrote: »

Those e-mails actually came from MS??

Probably not... they probably came from the support team handling calls on behalf of Microsoft working for Stream.

CramCycle · 19-09-2011 10:26PM

NORTH1 wrote: »

Hi guys

I’ve just received a complaint from our GM in relation to the above. I believe the end user has already been on to customer care however he is now escalating this issue via local media including “price watch”. I need to close this down immediately particularly since we are launch Gears of War 3 tonight – and I am expecting media from Today FM and people from boards.ie to attend the event.

I need your assistance on this issue – to close out. Mike / Rob can you please see what transpired with this customer via CS. Anouska/Sinead can you share any prior incidences with us on anything that happened in EMEA. I will set up a call for 2pm today. Nora / Emma can you follow our process on media logs and also check to see what other coverage this is generating locally.

Thanks

Jackie

LOL, I think she is the woman on Nova promoting GOW3 tonight, they were having a competition by invitation to win a copy + a night in the hotel beside them.

gizmo · 19-09-2011 10:28PM

darklighter wrote: »

Those e-mails actually came from MS??

Bleeding heck, serious lack of intelligence if the first one was sent to you :eek: E-mail 101 teaches you to check whom you address mails too.

Does show that the media interest is the only thing they care about. Its abit late now to do anything for the Gears launch but they'll be going all out press wise for Battlefield, CoD, Halo and Fifa over the next few weeks so plenty of opportunity to kick up a stink!

It also shows, in some form at least, that it's not a problem they're aware of otherwise it would have more than likely been referenced somewhere in the mail and the sender wouldn't be asking whether there have been any "prior incidents" on "anything that happened in EMEA".

NORTH1 · 20-09-2011 11:30PM

Just an update

I have been in contact with MS support by phone, the e-mail I received they wanted to retract and they are now personally looking into my case. They have had 24 hours now with one curtsy call in between to say they are still on the case.

As for Microsoft's infallibility another interesting story here they seem to be banning members of the press as well for fraud!!

http://gameplaytoday.com/home/news-archive/6417-ms-screws-up-and-bans-game-sites-account-for-fraud

Helix no more bad reviews now!!

Copper_pipe · 20-09-2011 11:34PM

NORTH1 wrote: »

Just an update

I have been in contact with MS support by phone, the e-mail I received they wanted to retract and they are now personally looking into my case. They have had 24 hours now with one curtsy call in between to say they are still on the case.

As for Microsoft's infallibility another interesting story here they seem to be banning members of the press as well for fraud!!

http://gameplaytoday.com/home/news-archive/6417-ms-screws-up-and-bans-game-sites-account-for-fraud

Helix no more bad reviews now!!

progress

Angry Mom · 22-09-2011 09:33PM

Hi North 1 , have you heard anymore about your console ban. We are from the US and our sons console was banned for alleged modification and piracy which is absolutely LUDICROUS! They have handled this whole sitaution appallingly treating us like criminals over here. Anyways any insight as to what is happening over the pond would be much appreciated.

allanb49 · 22-09-2011 09:42PM

Angry Mom wrote: »

Hi North 1 , have you heard anymore about your console ban. We are from the US and our sons console was banned for alleged modification and piracy which is absolutely LUDICROUS! They have handled this whole sitaution appallingly treating us like criminals over here. Anyways any insight as to what is happening over the pond would be much appreciated.

ooo our little thread is going global.

Irish
Canadian
American

walk into a forum.... :pac:

Angry Mom · 22-09-2011 09:52PM

Here is a Facebook link too
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=16547831022&topic=18202#topic_top

colly10 · 22-09-2011 11:19PM

Read the thread, would just like to say good luck to the OP with this.
I feel that he has not broken any of the terms of service but either way I think that it is completely unacceptable that they can ban his console without a full explanation.
It's good to see that people out there will stand up for themselves out of principle even where they are initially not believed and despite the difficulty of getting a company like MS to admit they're wrong. Hopefully it goes well for you

Horsebox9000 · 23-09-2011 07:57PM

Can't be bothered.

wush06 · 23-09-2011 09:37PM

Looks like ms was wrong.

http://forums.xbox.com/xbox_forums/xbox_support/f/41/t/92218.aspx

jimbob_jones · 23-09-2011 09:40PM

Just saw this over on Joystiq as well
http://i.joystiq.com/2011/09/23/microsoft-reversing-recent-xbox-live-bans-caused-by-software-err/

.E_C_K_S. · 23-09-2011 09:48PM

3 months LIVE and 1600 msp? I wish I was banned:D Well North are you unbanned?

Also nice to shove this up the holes of people saying MS don't mistakes!

Reamer Fanny · 23-09-2011 10:01PM

There was bound to be a glitch in the system somewere Microsoft are having to defend the console from all angles, just recently the slim and older models have been cracked open with the glitch hack.

wush06 · 23-09-2011 10:18PM

justryan wrote: »

There was bound to be a glitch in the system somewere Microsoft are having to defend the console from all angles, just recently the slim and older models have been cracked open with the glitch hack.

And that makes it alright for the s@it north1 and many others had to put up with. They should have dealt with this better from the start.
With all there billions this software should of been check then check again.

Mr E · 23-09-2011 10:43PM

Official statement from Stephen Toulouse:

Hi everyone, Stephen Toulouse here, "Stepto" on Xbox LIVE and the weekly Major Nelson Radio podcast. Most of you know me as the head of the Policy and Enforcement team for Xbox LIVE.

As I have noted many times on the podcast, the enforcement team exists to help protect the LIVE experience. One of the ways we do that is to prevent consoles from accessing the service that are involved in bad behavior such as cheating, fraud, running unauthorized software on the service, or playing illegitimate copies of games (to name a few). For the vast majority of our actions, our team reviews a lot of data, examines the behavior, and then we take action. In some cases, very rarely, we use software features on the Xbox itself to help us take action.

Recently, it was brought to our attention that a number of customers had concerns about the validity of a recent ban of their individual consoles, which they feel had been triggered inaccurately. In this case, the bans were related specifically to modded consoles. I take these claims very seriously, and after an initial investigation we have confirmed that a handful of banned consoles did in-fact appear to not have been modified or tampered with. We’re still conducting our review but the cause appears to be a software issue, not an error on the part of the enforcement team’s normal actions. It’s very specific and occurred between August 29 and September 9, affecting a very small percentage of users.

One of the most serious actions my team can take is to prevent a console from accessing Xbox LIVE. We make every effort to be conservative when taking that action. If there is any doubt that this step was taken incorrectly, we want to address it while at the same time protecting the service for our customers.

Therefore, while we are still conducting a thorough investigation, the enforcement team is taking the step of reversing the bans for the tiny set of impacted consoles in that time period. Again, while it’s an extremely small percentage of impacted consoles, the good news is that we know exactly which ones. If you believe you are affected, simply try to reconnect your console to Xbox LIVE. If it cannot still connect, that console was not a part of this issue.

Within a few business days, we will issue the primary account holder on the impacted console a credit for three months of Xbox LIVE Gold and 1600 Microsoft points. Since we know exactly who is affected, those customers do not need to take any action. Everything will be applied automatically. No keys or tokens to redeem, no other action to be taken.

I’d like to take a moment to personally apologize for the inconvenience this has almost certainly caused to the affected customers. You have my assurance that we are investigating how this error occurred and have since discontinued use of the software that was used. The Xbox LIVE community is the best out there and we regret the inconvenience this may have caused for our loyal members.

If you listen to our podcast (and I know many hundreds of thousands of you do!) you know I give out my email address in every episode. I read all the email there, and it’s Stepto@Xbox.com. Please feel free to give me your feedback. If you feel you have been affected by this situation, be sure to use www.xbox.com/support/contact so we can get you to the appropriate people to help.

As always, you guys are the reason I come into work every day. Thank you so much for making Xbox LIVE an amazing community and I look forward to hearing from you.

– Stephen Toulouse, head of Xbox LIVE Policy and Enforcement

gizmo · 23-09-2011 10:46PM

Glad to see MS finally getting to the bottom of this and offering both an apology and some decent compensation.

The length of time it's taken them to get here will leave them open to a bunch of people wanting new consoles though since there's a possibility some of the mistakenly banned people may have binned theirs. Shouldn't be too hard to work out I guess, if they were banned and can provide a receipt for the new console they should get their money back. My condolences to the guys here who work for MS Support.

Zab · 23-09-2011 11:56PM

That's really good news. I hope OP is one of the people who's console gets unbanned, I'm assuming that it will.

However,

three months of Xbox LIVE Gold and 1600 Microsoft points

this isn't even close to enough compensation. I don't know what they hell MS are smoking here. They need to agree to re-examine their "no information" policy for console bans and the measly offering above doesn't come close to matching OP's anguish at having to deal with Microsoft on this issue. Considering what it costs Microsoft to give Live subscription I'm actually pretty shocked that they're only offering three months.

They also need to acknowledge that their standard procedures would not have caught this. It was only caught because people such as OP created a lot of noise on forums and other online sites.

PseudoFamous · 23-09-2011 11:57PM

Any word on this OP? Console unbanned?

Console Ban 3-9-11 (Mod Warning Post #755)

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