wives and mothers are as much to blame for the abuse

thebigbiffo · 16-09-2011 04:34PM

CathySpark wrote: »

I am at work so not able to read the full thread, but I had a neighbout abuse me as a child and as an adult my mother told me she knew something was wrong but didnt want to fall out with the neighbours, she said my father wanted to do something about it but she wouldnt let him.

sorry to hear that.

i'm afraid this may be the story for more abuse victims than 'my parents went straight to the Gardai' unfortunately.

Helix · 16-09-2011 04:34PM

mossyc123 wrote: »

Why must all reference to Child Abuse automatically refer to the Church?

because people are unable to read, clearly

16-09-2011 04:36PM

Dudess wrote: »

That comment, and no elaboration/opinion of your own ain't great either...

I read the article unlike most.. Wanted to reply but it:s all just uninformed wild shlte.

booboo88 · 16-09-2011 04:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I read the article unlike most.. Wanted to reply but it:s all just uninformed wild shlte.

were you not reading the same article? or you just fill in your own lil nitbits as you went along?

Dudess · 16-09-2011 04:38PM

Mossy and Biffo, you're missing the point. Nobody's disputing the point that abuse could take place in the home, or that abusers weren't just clergy, but can you not see the cynical agenda he's pushing to deflect attention from Rome? And the way he's comparing women - often very downtrodden in Ireland way back when - to senior clergy, who had considerable power?
Not denying some women did turn a blind eye, but plenty wanted to protect their children, but couldn't.
Surely you can see how unfair and crass he's being?

Helix · 16-09-2011 04:40PM

Dudess wrote: »

Mossy and Biffo, you're missing the point. Nobody's disputing the point that abuse could take place in the home, or that abusers weren't just clergy, but can you not see the cynical agenda he's pushing to deflect attention from Rome? And the way he's comparing women - often very downtrodden in Ireland - to senior clergy, who had considerable power?
Not denying some women did turn a blind eye, but plenty wanted to protect their children, but couldn't.
Surely you can see how unfair and crass he's being?

he's making a comparison that even though we all think we'd do one thing, the reality is that hte majority of us do the other when actually put in the situation

Dudess · 16-09-2011 04:41PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I read the article unlike most.. Wanted to reply but it:s all just uninformed wild shlte.

Bet you think all he's saying is: abuse can take place in the family too, which is what's an uninformed interpretation of the article in the opinion of many of us here...

But you could, you know, offer your view.

Dudess · 16-09-2011 04:44PM

Helix wrote: »

because people are unable to read, clearly

Don't think ANYONE said all abuse is carried but the clergy, but anyway...

gargleblaster · 16-09-2011 04:45PM

All right **** it I'm just going to say it.

Women fail to report that their boyfriends or husbands or brothers or brothers-in-law are raping their children all the ****ing time.

Some are deeply in denial. Do you know what denial is? IT's not choosing to ignore something. It borders on mental illness. It's a complete blocking out of something unpleasant.

SOME of those women are in denial, some are just heartless bitches of the type who would prostitute their own children.

But SOME are victims themselves, and were victims of relatives themselves, which sets them up to be predated on by men who are somehow able to seek these types of women out.

It's a sick, sick, vicious cycle, and I wish people would stop for a second and THINK before making comments about blame. **** blame. A lot of the men who do this sick ****ing **** were ****ed up when THEY were kids.

Just stop shaming everyone so that people can feel that they don't HAVE to hide this ****, and then maybe more people would get help before they go on to grow up to emulate what they learned in childhood.

And now that I've made a complete ass of myself (yet again) I will wish you all a good weekend.

Helix · 16-09-2011 04:45PM

Dudess wrote: »

Don't think ANYONE said all abuse is carried but the clergy, but anyway...

the vast majority of the responses seem to give them impression that the posters thing that he was talking about clerical abuse in his statement though. he wasnt

Knight who says Meh · 16-09-2011 04:50PM

And i have a leaked document in my possession which clearly shows that The Head of The International Organisation of Wives and Mothers, Penelope Beenidet Ratsinger has been engaged in a policy of covering up abuse cases and believing that their own law is superior to state law.

Knight who says Meh · 16-09-2011 04:51PM

Whoops. No I was mixing that up with something else.....:o

Helix · 16-09-2011 04:52PM

^ see

another one who completely missed the point

mossyc123 · 16-09-2011 04:54PM

Dudess wrote: »

Mossy and Biffo, you're missing the point. Nobody's disputing the point that abuse could take place in the home, or that abusers weren't just clergy, but can you not see the cynical agenda he's pushing to deflect attention from Rome? And the way he's comparing women - often very downtrodden in Ireland way back when - to senior clergy, who had considerable power?
Not denying some women did turn a blind eye, but plenty wanted to protect their children, but couldn't.
Surely you can see how unfair and crass he's being?

To refer exclusively to Women (wives and mothers) is undoubtedly unfair.

I just think it's a fair point that there was a culture of silence about the issue and that this was widespread.

Senior Clergy had much more power then the average woman in Ireland back 20+ years ago.

But did they have more power and hence more responsibility then say the Gardai, Social workers, Doctors, Politicians, etc, etc.

People who, if an enquiry was set-up, we might surely find were also aware of abuse taking place?

As for the "cynical agenda"...

I believe that there is a bit of a cosy consensus between the media and politicians that seems to give disproportionate attention to Child Abuse scandals in the Church ahead of other cases.

I'd expand on this but my reasons for it would be more suitable to the "Conspiracy Theories" forum.

thebigbiffo · 16-09-2011 04:54PM

Dudess wrote: »

Mossy and Biffo, you're missing the point. Nobody's disputing the point that abuse could take place in the home, or that abusers weren't just clergy, but can you not see the cynical agenda he's pushing to deflect attention from Rome? And the way he's comparing women - often very downtrodden in Ireland way back when - to senior clergy, who had considerable power?
Not denying some women did turn a blind eye, but plenty wanted to protect their children, but couldn't.
Surely you can see how unfair and crass he's being?

with all due respect, i think you're missing the point.

yes he probably has his reasons for saying it and they are not commendable. but the gist of what he's saying did get me to thinking about the nature of reporting abuse in this country in the past.

he is essentially correct. i hate to admit it but that's the truth.

i think the catholic church is to blame for that culture in the first place but that's another story.

16-09-2011 05:01PM

Dudess wrote: »

Bet you think all he's saying is: abuse can take place in the family too, which is what's an uninformed interpretation of the article in the opinion of many of us here...

But you could, you know, offer your view.

I think he is making a strong point but it's being lost due to the fact that he's a priest. I know 3 girls who's mother knew of the abuse but did nothing because they were trapped. Not their fault but it's true.

mossyc123 · 16-09-2011 05:02PM

Dudess wrote: »

Don't think ANYONE said all abuse is carried but the clergy, but anyway...

If you ask the average Joe Dope in the street about "Child Abuse" there's a good chance they will automatically respond with "Paedophile Priest".

jackie1974 · 16-09-2011 05:05PM

gargleblaster wrote: »

All right **** it I'm just going to say it.
Women fail to report that their boyfriends or husbands or brothers or brothers-in-law are raping their children all the ****ing time. Some are deeply in denial. Do you know what denial is? IT's not choosing to ignore something. It borders on mental illness. It's a complete blocking out of something unpleasant.
SOME of those women are in denial, some are just heartless bitches of the type who would prostitute their own children.
But SOME are victims themselves, and were victims of relatives themselves, which sets them up to be predated on by men who are somehow able to seek these types of women out. It's a sick, sick, vicious cycle, and I wish people would stop for a second and THINK before making comments about blame. **** blame. A lot of the men who do this sick ****ing **** were ****ed up when THEY were kids.
Just stop shaming everyone so that people can feel that they don't HAVE to hide this ****, and then maybe more people would get help before they go on to grow up to emulate what they learned in childhood.
And now that I've made a complete ass of myself (yet again) I will wish you all a good weekend.

My thoughts exactly, well said. I think the writer may well have an agenda but the point he is making is a very valid one. People did not want to know about sexual abuse up until a few years ago, not just wives and mothers but teachers, care workers, medical staff, neighbours and relatives. It was a seriously taboo subject that brought shame to anybody within a mile of it. The issue is way too complex to be casting blame around. I went through prosecuting somebody for sexual abuse during the 90s and even then Icould tell the gaurds wanted to run a mile, people are not equipped to deal with it, its traumatising for everyone involved.

Dudess · 16-09-2011 05:05PM

Open to interpretation I guess - I doubt the man has any concern other than trying to make out the Vatican isn't quite as bad as it is.

And also, there is far too much assuming that those who object to what he wrote are on an anti clergy tirade. For one, I'm not. I don't hate all clergy are tar them all with the "paedo" brush.

Knight who says Meh · 16-09-2011 05:06PM

Knight who says Meh wrote: »

And i have a leaked document in my possession which clearly shows that The Head of The International Organisation of Wives and Mothers, Penelope Beenidet Ratsinger has been engaged in a policy of covering up abuse cases and believing that their own law is superior to state law.

Helix wrote: »

^ see

another one who completely missed the point

I dont think I am.
Nobody disputes the fact that abuse happens in all walks of life but the hot topic and what brings The Church Inc to the fore is the enormous powerful structure they have at their disposal which has been used for self preservation and perversion (!) of the course of justice.
This is the very reason for the wave of criticism of The Church Inc. What is the point in writing a piece on the role of wives and mothers in respect of this?
Simple.
More deflection of guilt.
And lets not forget that The Church Inc intentionally produced generations of subservient Irish families who would not even dream of speaking out against them. They reap what they sow.

Knight who says Meh · 16-09-2011 05:25PM

mossyc123 wrote: »

It is in reference to abuse in the home, largely by family members.

Lets call a spade a spade here and say fathers/uncles/brothers abusing young kids within their own families.

Mothers/Wives knowing about this and doing nothing about it.

It's a fair point, although male relatives deserve the same blame.

Why must all reference to Child Abuse automatically refer to the Church?

Have people been so conditioned by media coverage that when they hear "Child Abuse" they automatically think of "The Church"?

All reference to the covering up of child abuse by church authorities refers to he Church.... that is all.....

PeterIanStaker · 16-09-2011 05:53PM

More proof that we need to get this organisation off this island.

Let them keep digging their own holes.

Da_Doc · 16-09-2011 07:48PM

Dudess wrote: »

And if you read between the lines you'll see he's trying to detract attention from Rome. As if those mothers had the same kind of powers as senior figures within the church had. So he's not even comparing like with like - and he doesn't even consider factors that may have led to women not speaking out. Only a simpleton would think all those mothers just decided not to protect their children.

People aren't disputing that much, if not most, child sexual abuse occurs in the home either.

Ah yes, Anne Coulter - the childless, single career woman who believes women should be mothers and wives and stay at home.

Another ****.

Have I once stated otherwise. I completely realise he is trying to distract attention from the church and it would only work on, as you put it, a simpleton which I assure you I am not.

My initial reply was in response to a poster stating that women in the 60, 70, 80's would not have been treated well if they reported the abuse.

Next I replied to people who were claiming it was sexist comments demonising women. I simply pointed out that he was saying that the perpetrator of the main crime, the abuse, were men and women were complicit only in covering it up.

Never once did I engage anyone regarding whether or not he was trying to distract attention as I felt it was quite obvious.

Odysseus · 16-09-2011 08:38PM

hondasam wrote: »

If a father was abusing his child and his wife/the child's mother knew about it,she should do something about it.
Any wife/mother who turns a blind eye is just as bad as the abuser.

Not always, I have worked with a lot of abused clients, and in certain cases other family members knew, or in other cases they may not have had proof and they where certainly in denial but they have a good idea that something was going on.

It's easy for us to said that it's wrong and any adult should report any concerns they may have about a child, but Ireland was a different place 20 years ago. It still happens today, however, it is much easier for people to report abuse today.

It a bit off topic but even if you look at abuse carried out by priests and brothers, as a child I knew what brothers and priests where abusing children in my school as did every other child from 1st year on. Thankfully they never came near me, but it was a large primary school, there must have been 600-800 kids in the school. Surely someone at some stage must have said something to someone. Some of the abuser's I knew of, have been to jail by now. However, some of the names I remember where never even question AFAIK.

Biggins · 17-09-2011 10:02AM

A CATHOLIC PRIEST has said that Irish mothers and wives also “failed miserably” to deal with the abuse of their children.

In an opinion piece in The Irish Catholic newspaper, Fr Paddy Banville of the Ferns Diocese in Wexford claimed that mothers and wives matched the failure of the bishops in regard to the cover up of child sexual abuse.

“There is another category of people that will match the failure of the bishops, and probably surpass it; the wives and mothers of Ireland, not exclusively wives and mothers but far too many who failed miserably to deal with the abuse of their children by other family members,” he writes.

Link: http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-mothers-and-wives-carry-blame-too-catholic-priest-228875-Sep2011/

So there you have it, summed up. A far as this piece of crap is concerned, its all the females fault just as much.

Is this schite for real?
Unbelievable the crap they are coming out with!
I have known for some time that the Rome organisation does hate the female form in body and spirit - but this is the first time that they have blatantly come out and espoused this, made it clear in print, their paper.

To blankly just try blaming the females of this world, is so far out there in stupidity and wrongness, it is an understatement.

Christ if he had indeed existed - would be ashamed of these assholes!

Gummy Panda · 17-09-2011 10:09AM

Well they did get us kicked out of the garden of Eden

ejmaztec · 17-09-2011 10:10AM

Biggins wrote: »

Link: http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-mothers-and-wives-carry-blame-too-catholic-priest-228875-Sep2011/

So there you have it, summed up. A far as this piece of crap is concerned, its all the females fault just as much.

Is this schite for real?
Unbelievable the crap they are coming out with!
I have known for some time that the Rome organisation does hate the female form in body and spirit - but this is the first time they they have blatantly come out and espoused this, made it clear in print, their paper.

To blankly just try blaming the females of this world, is so far out there in stupidity and wrongness, it is an understatement.

Christ if he had indeed existed - would be ashamed of these assholes!

If there was reluctance for people not to do anything, it was because they were brainwashed by the church not to go against it. The guy's a dick.

Xpsgamer · 17-09-2011 10:12AM

Biggins wrote: »

Link: http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-mothers-and-wives-carry-blame-too-catholic-priest-228875-Sep2011/

So there you have it, summed up. A far as this piece of crap is concerned, its all the females fault just as much.

Is this schite for real?
Unbelievable the crap they are coming out with!
I have known for some time that the Rome organisation does hate the female form in body and spirit - but this is the first time that they have blatantly come out and espoused this, made it clear in print, their paper.

To blankly just try blaming the females of this world, is so far out there in stupidity and wrongness, it is an understatement.

Christ if he had indeed existed - would be ashamed of these assholes!

No matter how hard they tried they couldnt make them put their sausages away

kfallon · 17-09-2011 10:13AM

Was there not a thread on this already yesterday?

Biggins · 17-09-2011 10:15AM

kfallon wrote: »

Was there not a thread on this already yesterday?

If there was, I apologise for re-posting. I didn't see it.

wives and mothers are as much to blame for the abuse

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