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wives and mothers are as much to blame for the abuse

245

Comments

  • #32
    Da_Doc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭Da_Doc


    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    And that's ridiculous simplistic. What if the wive was herself being abused? I've no doubt that some mothers/wives were complicit in covering up abuse. But are they all to blame in general? No, of course not! The abusers shoulder the vast portion of the blame.

    Of course the abuser bare all of the blame for the abuse but the child should be protected at all cost. Im not trying to demonize any women who were in this situation or anything because Im sure they have more than suffered too but Im not willing to accept that there is nothing that can be done to stop the children being abused. Someone somewhere would listen....they'd have to.


  • #33
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQPMjQApBcw


  • #34
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    smash wrote: »
    Ok, times have changed. Women were basically second class citizens back then, men had the power in the home. The same way a priest had the power in the community, but they covered up too. If it happened today, they'd be reported. The issue here is that he's trying to dodge a bullet and move it away from the church and is blaming others.

    I guess we are all reading it differently, abuse is still happening today in family homes and it's not been reported.
    If priests are abusing children today I hope it would be reported.


  • #35
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Dudess wrote: »
    No they're not. They're in the wrong too, but only a person who is an abuser is as bad as the abuser.
    Plus, the reasons as to WHY they didn't do something about the abuse should be examined... but I know some people get a hard-on out of apportioning blame without facts.

    None of us know the facts, I see it as my responsibly to protect my kids regardless and if I am prepared to turn a blind eye then I'm just as bad.

    I'm out of this thread also.


  • #36
    Da_Doc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭Da_Doc


    mariaalice wrote: »
    But why is he saying wives and mothers alone, what about fathers who didn't report or protect their children or are they somehow excluded form responsibly.

    He is insinuating the the fathers doing the abuse...if half the people bother reading the article he is talking about abuse in the home


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  • #37
    Adyx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,997 ✭✭✭Adyx


    smash wrote: »
    Ok, times have changed. Women were basically second class citizens back then, men had the power in the home. The same way a priest had the power in the community, but they covered up too. If it happened today, they'd be reported. The issue here is that he's trying to dodge a bullet and move it away from the church and is blaming others.

    Back when? Do you think this isn't still going on?

    This priest is only inviting trouble on himself with this article. He puts his point across in a very bad way which leads to confusion. Also, I don't think anything comes close to the cover-ups done by the church. That said, he does actually have a good point however badly he tries to get it across.


  • #38
    FetchTheGin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin


    This is unbelievable.
    In time, I believe Ireland will discover that there is nothing particularly unique in the Catholic bishop’s bungling attempts to deal with clerical abuse

    Eh, for the first time in **** knows how many years, in the eyes of the Catholic church, it IS unique.
    but there is another category of people that will match the failure of the bishops, and probably surpass it

    So let me get this straight, he thinks that a few cases of domestic abuse surpass the years of; suppression of women, horrific abuse of children, not to mention the oppression of an entire nation for many years and the attempted cover up of this abuse over an international scale? BULL****!
    but in terms of child abuse the Catholic Church is holding up a mirror to Irish society

    Hold up a mirror to yourselves, there is no coming back from the ongoing and past crimes you committed.

    So paddy in conclusion, take your opinion, along with your backward religious cult and **** OFF.


  • #39
    mossyc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭mossyc123


    The Rep from "One-in-Four" said on The Frontline on Monday that 99% of abuse was carried out in the family home or by a family member.

    IMO the mainstream media and the politicians are happy enough to go along with the narrative that it was 99% carried out by Catholic Clergy as it is a convenient bogey-man to blame for all of the crimes committed and the massive failure at State level to protect Children over the years.

    To blame wives/mothers is a stupid thing to do IMO as they might themselves have been victims of abuse.

    The blame should lay at the door of everyone who knew and didn't do anything about it.


  • #40
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Da_Doc wrote: »
    He is insinuating the the fathers doing the abuse...if half the people bother reading the article he is talking about abuse in the home
    And if you read between the lines you'll see he's trying to detract attention from Rome. As if those mothers had the same kind of powers as senior figures within the church had. So he's not even comparing like with like - and he doesn't even consider factors that may have led to women not speaking out. Only a simpleton would think all those mothers just decided not to protect their children.

    People aren't disputing that much, if not most, child sexual abuse occurs in the home either.

    Ah yes, Anne Coulter - the childless, single career woman who believes women should be mothers and wives and stay at home.

    Another ****.


  • #41
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    hondasam wrote: »
    I guess we are all reading it differently, abuse is still happening today in family homes and it's not been reported.
    If priests are abusing children today I hope it would be reported.

    I'd hope that in both cases it would be reported. More than likely in a lot of cases it wont be because the abuser will instil fear in their victim. So lets go back to the past, children and wives were probably fearful of the fathers that abused. It does not make the women as bad as the abuser, they probably did console the abused. Now lets take it a step further... the wife turns to the one person she can 'trust', the local priest. She tells him, he will not report it because of the sacred confession, and he's probably at it himself or he knows of other priests that are at it. Who does she turn to?

    The church trying to dodge the issue or pass blame will not fly any more.


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  • #42
    mossyc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭mossyc123


    FetchTheGin wrote: »
    So let me get this straight, he thinks that a few cases of domestic abuse surpass the years of; suppression of women, horrific abuse of children, not to mention the oppression of an entire nation for many years and the attempted cover up of this abuse over an international scale? BULL****

    The vast majority of abuse carried out in Ireland was perpetrated by family members according to the Rep from "One-in-Four" who was speaking on The Frontline on Monday.


  • #43
    FetchTheGin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin


    mossyc123 wrote: »
    The vast majority of abuse carried out in Ireland was perpetrated by family members according to the Rep from "One-in-Four" who was speaking on The Frontline on Monday.

    I would be delighted to look at these statistics.


  • #44
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    To be fair, I don't know whether misogyny is the issue here - if he could find a reason to target men, I'm sure he would too.


  • #45
    previous user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭previous user


    And then they'll become even more alienated from the Irish people and they'l say it's the athiests with their hidden agenda trying to dismantle their precious institution, Idiots!


  • #46
    mconigol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    A lot of people in Ireland knew what was going on and didn't do a thing.

    It was no secret growing up you were always told to be wary of priests ffs.


  • #47
    thebigbiffo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭thebigbiffo


    man's got a point actually.

    i know 2 girls who were abused as children by family members and their parents essentially 'covered it up'.

    read parents though Father - not just wives and mothers.


  • #48
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Dudess wrote: »
    To be fair, I don't know whether misogyny is the issue here - if he could find a reason to target men, I'm sure he would too.

    Like all the male priests? Actually no, that wouldn't be in his interest. It's easier to prey on the weak.


  • #49
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    thebigbiffo wrote: »
    man's got a point actually.

    i know 2 girls who were abused as children by family members and their parents essentially 'covered it up'.
    The man clearly has an agenda to push - to take the heat off the Vatican.

    And the fact that he actually said those generally powerless mothers were as much, if not more, responsible for suffering than the powerful senior clerics who did nothing... is utterly despicable.


  • #50
    mossyc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭mossyc123


    FetchTheGin wrote: »
    I would be delighted to look at these statistics.

    http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1111993

    She didn't quote a report or anything, feel free to look for it yourself online.


  • #51
    booboo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭booboo88


    smash wrote: »
    Like all the male priests? Actually no, that wouldn't be in his interest. It's easier to prey on the weak.

    Not all male priests are the same, some of them are fantastic people, and do everything for the community,
    so as much as I despise abusers, rapists, peadophiles, not all priest are the same.
    But then we have this guy, blaming wives and mothers, alot of wives and mothers were themselves being abused, and its still lingers today, the ol irish way, what happens behind closed doors, is no ones business, very sad but true,


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  • #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This thread has to be up there with the highest % off retarded posts I've ever seen.


  • #53
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This thread has to be up there with the highest % off retarded posts I've ever seen.
    That comment, and no elaboration/opinion of your own ain't great either...


  • #54
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    mariaalice wrote: »
    But why is he saying wives and mothers alone, what about fathers who didn't report or protect their children or are they somehow excluded form responsibly.

    i assumed he was talking about wives and mothers who knew their husbands were assaulting their children and covered it up, or found out later and tried to keep it quiet

    he's comparing the natural reaction to sexual assaults within families (to cover it up to avoid shame) to the reaction of the church. he's not saying wifes and mothers covered up priests riding children, so they're to blame


  • #55
    CathySpark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭CathySpark


    I am at work so not able to read the full thread, but I had a neighbout abuse me as a child and as an adult my mother told me she knew something was wrong but didnt want to fall out with the neighbours, she said my father wanted to do something about it but she wouldnt let him.


  • #56
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    booboo88 wrote: »
    Not all male priests are the same, some of them are fantastic people, and do everything for the community

    I know that, I was talking about the priests that abused or covered up abuse. And they were all male obviously.


  • #57
    booboo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭booboo88


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This thread has to be up there with the highest % off retarded posts I've ever seen.

    yes, i know, you posted in it


  • #58
    FetchTheGin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    This thread has to be up there with the highest % off retarded posts I've ever seen.

    Yours being the most retarded I reckon.


  • #59
    thebigbiffo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭thebigbiffo


    Dudess wrote: »
    The man clearly has an agenda to push - to take the heat off the Vatican.

    And the fact that he actually said those generally powerless mothers were as much, if not more, responsible for suffering than the powerful senior clerics who did nothing... is utterly despicable.

    i read it as he was talking about abuse in general, not just clerical abuse. lets face it, plenty of parents - maybe even the majority of parents - who found out about abuse did in fact do no more about it than not let the abuser around the child any more. that's a fact, as unsavoury as it might be. there is, and that is, obviously no excuse for what his corrupt organisation did, but all the same he raises a very good point; that covering up abuse in ireland was commonplace not just among the clergy.

    what would make an even more interesting debate was whether this culture of shame was propogated by the catholic church and their backward chronic fear of all things related to sex.


  • #60
    booboo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,107 ✭✭✭booboo88


    smash wrote: »
    I know that, I was talking about the priests that abused or covered up abuse. And they were all male obviously.

    I know, I just wanted to get in there before all the blah blah tar them with same brush


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  • #61
    mossyc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭mossyc123


    Dudess wrote: »
    The man clearly has an agenda to push - to take the heat off the Vatican.

    And the fact that he actually said those generally powerless mothers were as much, if not more, responsible for suffering than the powerful senior clerics who did nothing... is utterly despicable.

    It is in reference to abuse in the home, largely by family members.

    Lets call a spade a spade here and say fathers/uncles/brothers abusing young kids within their own families.

    Mothers/Wives knowing about this and doing nothing about it.

    It's a fair point, although male relatives deserve the same blame.


    Why must all reference to Child Abuse automatically refer to the Church?


    Have people been so conditioned by media coverage that when they hear "Child Abuse" they automatically think of "The Church"?


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