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€100bn public sector pension bill

245

Comments

  • #32
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Blanchguy wrote: »
    Yeah when they can't keep their fairy tales straight...

    Your €22k friends still paying 15% for their pension? And taken a 15% paycut?


    I pay just over 10% of my income to my pension, take home pay is down 15%. Both factual statements, but don't suit your argument so everyone must be lying.


  • #33
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Blanchguy wrote: »
    Yeah when they can't keep their fairy tales straight...

    Your €22k friends still paying 15% for their pension? And taken a 15% paycut?


    I pay just over 10% of my income to my pension, take home pay is down 15%. Both factual statements, but don't suit your argument so everyone must be lying.

    was seanie fitz or fingers finglton in the public sector or private sector? If I remember correctly they got quite good pensions. Ah! Yes the public sector are all to blame!


  • #34
    The Waltzing Consumer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    Bosco boy wrote: »
    was seanie fitz or fingers finglton in the public sector or private sector? If I remember correctly they got quite good pensions. Ah! Yes the public sector are all to blame!

    You are being quite defensive, for no good reason. There is a large large portion of the public service, who were completely incompetent, who created and maintained a golden lifestyle, who are very much to blame for the state of our public service, and who should quite rightly not get these full pensions whilst younger generations of public and private workers get peanuts in comparison. I am for paying my way, but start with these guys, then roll down.

    You may have one or two examples, but what about the countless examples of complete incompetence rewarded by huge salaries and pensions eg FAS.


  • #35
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »
    You are being quite defensive, for no good reason. There is a large large portion of the public service, who were completely incompetent, who created and maintained a golden lifestyle, who are very much to blame for the state of our public service, and who should quite rightly not get these full pensions whilst younger generations of public and private workers get peanuts in comparison. I am for paying my way, but start with these guys, then roll down.

    You may have one or two examples, but what about the countless examples of complete incompetence rewarded by huge salaries and pensions eg FAS.


    True, but the public swallow what the media feed them and that is that every single one of us is on the gravy train. As for the wonderful increments, my last one was worth €10 take home to me, have no idea what foreign holiday to spend that one on.


  • #36
    KerranJast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    True, but the public swallow what the media feed them and that is that every single one of us is on the gravy train. As for the wonderful increments, my last one was worth €10 take home to me, have no idea what foreign holiday to spend that one on.
    If you actually listened the original piece (its The Dunphy Show Sept 11 part 1 on the Newstalk player) you'd hear that its not the average to lower paid PS/CS worker pensions thats the issue.
    There are a lot of higher paid PS workers including politicians, judges, department heads, semi state officals etc that will be getting pensions of upwards of €150k per annum which amounts to a liability to the State of €5-6m per person which is where the €120B figure comes from.


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  • #37
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »
    Bosco boy wrote: »
    was seanie fitz or fingers finglton in the public sector or private sector? If I remember correctly they got quite good pensions. Ah! Yes the public sector are all to blame!

    You are being quite defensive, for no good reason. There is a large large portion of the public service, who were completely incompetent, who created and maintained a golden lifestyle, who are very much to blame for the state of our public service, and who should quite rightly not get these full pensions whilst younger generations of public and private workers get peanuts in comparison. I am for paying my way, but start with these guys, then roll down.

    You may have one or two examples, but what about the countless examples of complete incompetence rewarded by huge salaries and pensions eg FAS.

    it's sections of the private sector like the banks, property developers, estate agents and speculators that created the false boom and current bust, public sector wages were driven up because public sector workers were leaving to join the private sector for the easy money and the unions made that case. Many who sneered at public sector workers during the Celtic tiger because of the low wages the public sector were on are now in the **** and the easy think to do is blame the other person. Public sector have had huge cuts already, but it's the private sector debt that hangs over everyone and makes the public sector unaffordable. But I accept there are inefficencies that could be looked at especially the top of the public sector. I'd call them public sector senior management. We also have to cut the social welfare bill especially childrens allowence which is crazy!


  • #38
    Sky King
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Sky King


    The same Eddie Hobbs that advised everyone to leverage themselves up to their tits to buy property in 2006 on his TV show?

    This alone invalidates any further recession commentary by Eddie Hobbs.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riFSbr-TgTg


  • #39
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Bosco boy wrote: »
    it's sections of the private sector like the banks, property developers, estate agents and speculators that created the false boom and current bust, public sector wages were driven up because public sector workers were leaving to join the private sector for the easy money and the unions made that case. Many who sneered at public sector workers during the Celtic tiger because of the low wages the public sector were on are now in the **** and the easy think to do is blame the other person. Public sector have had huge cuts already, but it's the private sector debt that hangs over everyone and makes the public sector unaffordable. But I accept there are inefficencies that could be looked at especially the top of the public sector. I'd call them public sector senior management. We also have to cut the social welfare bill especially childrens allowence which is crazy!

    Sorry I just think it's kind of funny that you can see the merits of cuts in the private sector, social welfare, children's allowance and the top of the public sector. To me it looks a bit like you can see the merits in cuts for everyone except the group that you just happen to fall into.

    You might not even work in the PS but that's just what it looks like from that post.


  • #40
    Blanchguy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 238 ✭✭Blanchguy


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    I pay just over 10% of my income to my pension, take home pay is down 15%. Both factual statements, but don't suit your argument so everyone must be lying.

    Everyone's take home pay is down. How much is your gross pay down? Everyone pays PRSI, if you are including that in your 10%. Are you?

    Never accused anyone of lying, some people are just a little bit too trusting of stories they are told by their friends.

    Not Yet admitted he can't stand over his facts and just has abuse to fall back on.


  • #41
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    KerranJast wrote: »
    If you actually listened the original piece (its The Dunphy Show Sept 11 part 1 on the Newstalk player) you'd hear that its not the average to lower paid PS/CS worker pensions thats the issue.
    There are a lot of higher paid PS workers including politicians, judges, department heads, semi state officals etc that will be getting pensions of upwards of €150k per annum which amounts to a liability to the State of €5-6m per person which is where the €120B figure comes from.


    The liability is dependant on the person lasting for years after retirement, the figures are a worst case scenario and designed to be sensationalist. Most PS workers at the high end will never live long enough to cause that financial liability to the state.


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  • #42
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Blanchguy wrote: »
    Everyone's take home pay is down. How much is your gross pay down? Everyone pays PRSI, if you are including that in your 10%. Are you?

    Never accused anyone of lying, some people are just a little bit too trusting of stories they are told by their friends.

    Not Yet admitted he can't stand over his facts and just has abuse to fall back on.


    Actually, not everyones take home pay is down, I have friends in the private sector who got pay rises that have offset any change in their pay so they are at the same take home level. My percentages are based on pre tax take changes. I don't rely on my firends, I work in the PS. You seem to be willing to trust what others say about the PS, why not the other poster.


  • #43
    Blanchguy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 238 ✭✭Blanchguy


    Only source I quoted was the Department of Finance? Are you saying that this isn't correct.

    My questions were nicely dodged.


  • #44
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Blanchguy wrote: »
    Only source I quoted was the Department of Finance? Are you saying that this isn't correct.

    My questions were nicely dodged.


    If you look, they were answered


  • #45
    kincsem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭kincsem


    When people start talking about how changes affected their "take home" pay it confuses things. We do not know their tax or pension deduction percentages, and when people say their "take home" pay has fallen how can we judge the reasons? My take home pay would fall if I asked HR to pay more to my credit union account.


  • #46
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    The whole pension scam is madness..both public and private sector. An inevitable effect of the me féin values we have.


  • #47
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    Bosco boy wrote: »
    it's sections of the private sector like the banks, property developers, estate agents and speculators that created the false boom and current bust, public sector wages were driven up because public sector workers were leaving to join the private sector for the easy money and the unions made that case. Many who sneered at public sector workers during the Celtic tiger because of the low wages the public sector were on are now in the **** and the easy think to do is blame the other person. Public sector have had huge cuts already, but it's the private sector debt that hangs over everyone and makes the public sector unaffordable. But I accept there are inefficencies that could be looked at especially the top of the public sector. I'd call them public sector senior management. We also have to cut the social welfare bill especially childrens allowence which is crazy!

    Sorry I just think it's kind of funny that you can see the merits of cuts in the private sector, social welfare, children's allowance and the top of the public sector. To me it looks a bit like you can see the merits in cuts for everyone except the group that you just happen to fall into.

    You might not even work in the PS but that's just what it looks like from that post.

    You would be incorrect


  • #48
    johnners2981
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭johnners2981


    They can't touch the older PS workers cause of their unions, its the new younger ones who are footing the bill. Thats hardly fair seeing as they didn't cause this.
    I hear so many stories of crap lazy teachers on permanent contracts and they can't do a thing to them


  • #49
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »
    Please tell me why a new tax, on public sector pensions over a certain amount, cannot be introduced? Yeah, pay the pensions, but tax the hell out of them, you ain't breaking any contract.
    +1. Could'nt agree more. Its scandalous what retired public servants get - some of whom I know very well. They even admit themselves they get far too big a pension.


  • #50
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    gigino wrote: »
    +1. Could'nt agree more. Its scandalous what retired public servants get - some of whom I know very well. They even admit themselves they get far too big a pension.

    I thought you were banned from all public sector threads. Maybe i was just hoping it though.


  • #51
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    As Eddie Hobbs would say, or the great Michael O'Leary would say, shooting the messenger will not solve the billions beings poured in to the public sector "scam" ( as O'Leary called it ). A mod employed in the public sector banned me from Irish politics , nothing more. That is more a reflection on the lack of free speech in boards.ie than anything else.


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  • #52
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    There's a very simple solution to this.

    Just do away with public sector pensions altogether starting now and tax the **** out of PS/CS pensions over 20K P.A.

    There's absolutely no reason why the state should be paying PS/CS pensions anyway.


  • #53
    Console
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭Console


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    There's a very simple solution to this.

    Just do away with public sector pensions altogether starting now and tax the **** out of PS/CS pensions over 20K P.A.

    There's absolutely no reason why the state should be paying PS/CS pensions anyway.

    Theres always something over looked when the Public Sector is mentioned ... the average joe blow. Sure its mental that alot of the higher ups are getting ridiculous pensions. But take the local councils. All the drivers, the guys cleaning the streets etc. These guys aint getting great pensions. But when it comes to the PS. People "over-look" joe street brush. Labeling them as all the same.

    But even then, the guys who have the high pensions have paid money week in and week out for decades. And lets be honest, who here would decline such a high pension if it were ourselfs in the situation?


  • #54
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    Console wrote: »
    But even then, the guys who have the high pensions have paid money week in and week out for decades.

    It still is not fair when a fellow can leave school in the early eighties with a pass scraped in the leaving, join the Gardai, be the Killascully cop for 3 decades and be retired now aged 50 with a pension pot worth 7 figures ( over a million ). He paid f*** all towards his pension in the eighties and little did he think then the average colleague of his templemore cclass would be retiring now with a tax free gratuity lump sum of nearly a hundred grand and an annual pension of over 35 grand. And 30 years left to live / do nixers / play golf / whatever. And as for the public servants closer to the top, those on a pension of over 100k ...no wonder the country is bust.


  • #55
    The_Thing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    I thought you were banned from all public sector threads. Maybe i was just hoping it though.

    Take no notice of the begrudger, He \ She was perma banned from Politics and now posts the same lies here.

    See here for the actual banning.


  • #56
    goose2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Console wrote: »
    Theres always something over looked when the Public Sector is mentioned ... the average joe blow. Sure its mental that alot of the higher ups are getting ridiculous pensions. But take the local councils. All the drivers, the guys cleaning the streets etc. These guys aint getting great pensions. But when it comes to the PS. People "over-look" joe street brush. Labeling them as all the same.

    Still get higher pay and much more secure employment than privately employed cleaners.

    But even then, the guys who have the high pensions have paid money week in and week out for decades. And lets be honest, who here would decline such a high pension if it were ourselfs in the situation?
    Irrelevant.


  • #57
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    The_Thing wrote: »
    Take no notice of the begrudger

    so someone a taxpayer - who objects to the " €100bn public sector pension bill " the o.p. refers to, is a "begrudger" ?

    One public sector moderator in politics decides to shoot ( ban ) the messenger. Thats says more about boards.ie than anything else. Thank God there are other messengers like Eddie Hobbs and Michael O'Leary etc who also object to the "€100bn public sector pension bill " ( "scam" O'Leary called it , and he is head of Irelands most successful company, and the most successful brand to come out of Ireland in the last 100 years ).


  • #58
    Console
    Closed Accounts Posts: 262 ✭✭Console


    goose2005 wrote: »
    Still get higher pay and much more secure employment than privately employed cleaners.

    So you begrude someone getting paid more? ... so instead of council workers getting privatised money - which would be what around ten euro an hour? .. you'd begrude workers getting 12-14 per hour from the council? .. remember, its not like they are getting 20euro p.h.

    Thats pretty terrible. Thats like begruding someone who works is tesco or something because you deem their rate is "too high"

    goose2005 wrote: »
    Irrelevant.

    So if you were in their job you would decline such a pension right?


  • #59
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    Console wrote: »
    So you begrude someone getting paid more?
    yes, considering the country is bust and the IMF is here. Why should the government be spending about double what is does on the public service compared to ten years ago ? Why should the public sector worker in Dundalk be paid so much more than the public sector worker in Newry, and so much more than private sector worker in Dundalk? According to the c.s.o, average public sector pay here is almost fifty grand a year. www.cso.ie


  • #60
    yosemite_sam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭yosemite_sam


    600,000 euro pay off's and 3000 euro week pensions, you'd think the place was flying wouldn't you


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  • #61
    gigino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭gigino


    yosemite_sam wrote: »
    600,000 euro pay off's and 3000 euro week pensions, you'd think the place was flying wouldn't you
    Its flying if you get paid by the taypayer / get the handout from the government.


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