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€100bn public sector pension bill

  • 11-09-2011 12:02PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    According to Eddie Hobbs there's a ''debt mountain'' of €100bn facing the Irsh citizen because the extraordinary cost of public sector pensions. During his piece today on Newstalk radio he spoke of massive €5 & €6million payouts for some top civil servants.

    He went on to suggest that policy surrounding these pensions were set mostly by interested parties and that Ireland could not sustain this bill. So should we cap the pensions to say 60 or €70k? Do you thingk it's right abd good that the country be lumbered with these debts at this time?


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Comments

  • Posts: 81,308 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Kamila Weak Thud


    remove salary-linked increases and you'll save a fortune


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    That right? I'm shocked. That's more than the IMF bill.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    squod wrote: »
    According to Eddie Hobbs .....

    Stopped reading after that.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Stopped reading after that.

    Its fine to dislike Hobbs, not a fan myself (he irritates me) but if there is any truth in what he says, he does have a point.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    squod wrote: »
    ...So should we cap the pensions to say 60 or €70k? Do you thingk it's right abd good that the country be lumbered with these debts at this time?

    Definitely. We simply can't afford to be giving this mad money away.
    Its bad enough we did more so with the banks.
    Maybe the temp' introduction of a new tax on them might help, I dunno know.
    Open to suggestions...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Scandalous payouts. But what can be done? Nothing. These guys are the buddies of the governing classes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    stop the country, I want to get off


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Phoenix Park


    Its too late for Ireland now. The people who are in a position to make decisions regarding pension cuts in the public sector have generous pensions lined up themselves. Its about looking after No 1 in this country, even if it means letting the majority go to ruin.
    30 years of misery all round, minimum.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    ...Its about looking after No 1 in this country, even if it means letting the majority go to ruin.
    30 years of misery all round, minimum.
    Indeed.

    What will our current lot (not just FG) do about it?
    Nothing I suspect. They are too closely entwined with those that are gaining these pay-offs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    We all know now that the celtic tiger was a farce and everybodys income will have to come down to match that of other european countries.
    These celtic tiger payoffs/pensions will have to come down. Why should the incomes of the little slave man on the street come down and not these?

    Would I be right in thinking that these pensions/payoffs will be coming out from the public coffers?
    This is one area, in conjunction with other measures that the deficit could be corrected.

    Make the slaves pay as usual.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    Please tell me why a new tax, on public sector pensions over a certain amount, cannot be introduced? Yeah, pay the pensions, but tax the hell out of them, you ain't breaking any contract.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Fvck em................

    Give them nothing greedy basturds


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    Whatever about existing pension commitments.

    Why were we still offering defined benefit pensions to new recruits. Surely it's a no-brainer to at least lessen the preborn your future generations?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Phoenix Park


    Please tell me why a new tax, on public sector pensions over a certain amount, cannot be introduced? Yeah, pay the pensions, but tax the hell out of them, you ain't breaking any contract.

    because the guy who introduces it also pays the tax, as does the guy sitting beside him and the guy on the other side of him. Such a tax might be further introduced, but it will be tiny. A token gesture. The majority will literally starve in Ireland before the public sector takes the hit it should. I don't wish to mindlessly bash the public sector, but that is a fact. Those who moan about 7/8/12 whatever % pay cuts....try a 80/100% pay cut for size, like so many have.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    hardCopy wrote: »
    Whatever about existing pension commitments.

    Why were we still offering defined benefit pensions to new recruits. Surely it's a no-brainer to at least lessen the preborn your future generations?

    How is that fair? The people working and in charge of the system gave themselves some of the best conditions and pay in the world, they get to reap the rewards now? They messed it up, they should be the first to get any cuts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    because the guy who introduces it also pays the tax, as does the guy sitting beside him and the guy on the other side of him. Such a tax might be further introduced, but it will be tiny. A token gesture. The majority will literally starve in Ireland before the public sector takes the hit it should. I don't wish to mindlessly bash the public sector, but that is a fact. Those who moan about 7/8/12 whatever % pay cuts....try a 80/100% pay cut for size, like so many have.

    There goes the thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Phoenix Park


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    There goes the thread.

    sorry, my bad i guess. i should have stayed in bed. :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭7sr2z3fely84g5


    The croke park agreement has turned out to be a joke,wrong people are getting cut whilst a minority are hesitant for a reform,in todays sindo reading it would make you physically sick,im surprised the IMFF have no teeth to try introduce some form of a heavy tax on this-
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/euro300m-retirement-jamboree-is-dished-out-to-99-civil-servants-2873163.html
    FORMER government secretary general Dermot McCarthy is just one of 99 top senior civil servants to retire on "maximum pension benefits" since January 2008, at an estimated total cost of almost €300m to the taxpayer -- or an average of €3m each.
    A cosseted coterie of the nation's retired top civil servants, who were responsible for overseeing Ireland's calamitous demise in recent years, will benefit most from an extensive and incredibly generous system of perks, which they awarded themselves.
    Over the lifetime of his pension, Mr McCarthy's retirement fund has been estimated to be worth more than €5m. Virtually all of the others who have stepped down have seen massive value added to their pensions.
    According to official figures obtained by this newspaper, 13 secretaries-general have stepped down from their posts since the beginning of 2008. Between them they received pension lump sums and severance payments totalling €4.9m.
    On top of this, most of them will receive an annual pension of €124,000, with Mr McCarthy and former Department of Finance boss David Doyle receiving over €140,000 for the rest of their lives.
    In stark contrast to the hardship being endured by those caught in negative equity and the unemployed, those at the very top of the public service have been insulated from the hardship of the recession by an incredible series of retirement benefits, entitlements, top-ups and severance payments.
    It has also emerged that since July 2005, eight of the most senior civil servants who retired from the Department of Finance shared a staggering pot of €2.4m in pension lump sums and "special severance" payments alone.
    The cost to the State of public service pensions has increased by 65 per cent in the past five years, according to figures from the Department of Finance.
    The net pensions bill for retired State employees was €2.236bn last year, compared to a comparable bill of €1.35bn in 2005.
    Retired civil servants like Mr McCarthy should be taxed and barred from any appointments, Fine Gael TD Derek Keating said this weekend.
    He has written to the Taoiseach, requesting that consideration be given to a new tax on such large amounts of money being paid to officials in the public sector.
    "I am furious at this," Mr Keating said. "What sort of message is this sending?
    "Place yourself in the shoes of a young family trying to manage a mortgage or the workers who received bad news in Talk Talk this week."
    Mr McCarthy was yesterday described by Fianna Fail national executive member and developer Jerry Beades as "the grand architect of all that went wrong in this country".
    Speaking to the Sunday Independent, Mr Beades said most people would not realise that Mr McCarthy's "sticky fingers" were all over the disastrous benchmarking, social partnership and the bank guarantee.
    James Hamilton, who has served as Director of Public Prosecutions for 12 years, is one of a host of top-level State employees set to retire with their full benefits ahead of pension cuts next February.
    Tax experts say the move at this time could save more than €12,000 a year on his pension.
    By retiring this year, Mr Hamilton's pension and lump sum will be calculated on his salary of almost €240,000.
    If he stayed beyond February 2012, his pension and lump sum would be calculated on the basis of his new reduced salary of €215,590.
    It has been confirmed that up to 55 senior civil servants are in line for gold-plated exit packages worth up to €634,000 if they retire by February, when the punitive new pension rules will kick in.

    Their pay offs are like winning the lotto plus draws!.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    There is a country in europe with a government! Am I right?
    We need to get the current crowd out and hand ourselves over to europe. Things would be done fairer (i hope) and we might have some sort of hope of survival. Continue on with this selfish crowd in place, we haven't a hope and we will be defaulting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    because the guy who introduces it also pays the tax, as does the guy sitting beside him and the guy on the other side of him. Such a tax might be further introduced, but it will be tiny. A token gesture. The majority will literally starve in Ireland before the public sector takes the hit it should. I don't wish to mindlessly bash the public sector, but that is a fact. Those who moan about 7/8/12 whatever % pay cuts....try a 80/100% pay cut for size, like so many have.

    WOULD YOU EVER COP THE FCUK ON..................

    Nobody and I mean nobody takes a 100% pay cut so get you facts right.

    If you lose your job you are entitled to dole payment,rent allowance, and a whole host of other payments.

    PS workers I know and work with are paid 22k a year. They have taken a 15% pay cut. They also pay 15% of pay into a pension scheme.

    If at 65 they get 300euro a week pension, the state pension is then means tested, I worked with a guy recently retired on 290euro a week, He now gets 66 euro of a state pension. so in real terms he's big fat PS pension is worth 56 euro a week.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    not yet wrote: »
    WOULD YOU EVER COP THE FCUK ON..................

    Nobody and I mean nobody takes a 100% pay cut so get you facts right.

    If you lose your job you are entitled to dole payment,rent allowance, and a whole host of other payments.

    PS workers I know and work with are paid 22k a year. They have taken a 15% pay cut. They also pay 15% of pay into a pension scheme.

    If at 65 the get 300euro a week pension, the state pension is then means tested, I worked with a guy recently retired on 290euro a week, He now get 66 euro of a state pension. so in real terms he's big fat PS pension is worth 56 euro a week.

    Yes because we know that everyone in the PS is working on 22k and that everyone retired is only getting 56 euro. No offense but there is zero point in showing two examples which back up your point, do you know anyone in the PS earning more then 22k a year?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    Haven't read a newspaper all day, which is unusual. Wonder what the reaction would be if a story like this made headlines. Would FF/FG react?

    From my point of view some of the previous shower should be in jail along with whoever it was that supported them in the public service for their part in the Anglo bail-out fraud.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 238 ✭✭Blanchguy


    not yet wrote: »
    WOULD YOU EVER COP THE FCUK ON..................

    PS workers I know and work with are paid 22k a year. They have taken a 15% pay cut. They also pay 15% of pay into a pension scheme.

    If at 65 they get 300euro a week pension, the state pension is then means tested, I worked with a guy recently retired on 290euro a week, He now gets 66 euro of a state pension. so in real terms he's big fat PS pension is worth 56 euro a week.

    You sure about all those figures? They should only have taken a 5% pay cut if they are earning less than €30k, and 15% should include all their taxes etc - see here http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/other/2009/pensiondedtablemay09.pdf

    You should have some good news for them on Monday morning...

    And that guy on €290 a week was on less than the minimum wage, which seems pretty unlikely... Did he never get an increment?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Yes because we know that everyone in the PS is working on 22k and that everyone retired is only getting 56 euro. No offense but there is zero point in showing two examples which back up your point, do you know anyone in the PS earning more then 22k a year?

    Yes,Yes I do but I know nobody on 90k-100k or more, so why are ordinary PS workers lumped in with consultants, professors, quango's, and all higher paid PS.

    I can tell you I know 50-60 people in the PS on 22k - 32k. Now these people gET no help from anywhere.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Blanchguy wrote: »
    You sure about all those figures? They should only have taken a 5% pay cut if they are earning less than €30k, and 15% should include all their taxes etc - see here http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/other/2009/pensiondedtablemay09.pdf

    You should have some good news for them on Monday morning...

    And that guy on €290 a week was on less than the minimum wage, which seems pretty unlikely... Did he never get an increment?

    No funny enough he never did............

    Want to know why, because he was just a plain aul driver in the council.

    Does that answer your question. Not all PS workers are earning 60k+


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    squod wrote: »
    Haven't read a newspaper all day, which is unusual. Wonder what the reaction would be if a story like this made headlines. Would FF/FG react?

    "If true, we are disturbed to hear of these costs and of course we will look into them with the utmost urgency. We will set-up a committee to overview the situation and report back in 6 to 12 months time with a detailed report which will then be put to the government table to review, which in turn will take another six months to define a strategy to tackle the problem! It will take another year after that, to implement it."

    "Don't dare say we stand by and do nothing!"


    End of Press release.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,369 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Bloody public servants. Glad I'm not one of them anymore.

    Good to see the governement are still looking after my pension though. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Blanchguy wrote: »
    You sure about all those figures? They should only have taken a 5% pay cut if they are earning less than €30k, and 15% should include all their taxes etc - see here http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/other/2009/pensiondedtablemay09.pdf

    You should have some good news for them on Monday morning...

    And that guy on €290 a week was on less than the minimum wage, which seems pretty unlikely... Did he never get an increment?

    By the way please,please please read my post again before you makes statements like 290 is below minimum wage, it CLEARLY states 290 was he's pension........................no fcuking wonder so much sh1te and crap is thrown about regrading the PS.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 238 ✭✭Blanchguy


    Yeah when they can't keep their fairy tales straight...

    Your €22k friends still paying 15% for their pension? And taken a 15% paycut?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,008 ✭✭✭not yet


    Blanchguy wrote: »
    Yeah when they can't keep their fairy tales straight...

    Your €22k friends still paying 15% for their pension? And taken a 15% paycut?

    Go away and stop annoying me before I say something that will get me banned.


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