The Failed Waterford Bypass and Toll System

Hoffmans · 16-03-2011 9:36pm

Have waterford cc got shares in this toll or what, this business about closing the 4 lanes on Rice bridge for ship see'rs in june is the dumbest move yet
Ok the. Toll barriers are been lifted. BUt this is only to get people crossing the toll and hoping they keep usin it when they come down again...

wmpdd3 · 17-03-2011 2:47am

Last time the tall ships were, the bridge was so crowded that a man in front of me fell into a buggy with a toddler in it. With attractions on both side it was mayham, crowd control wasnt workin because people wanted to stop on the bridge and take photos. It think this is much better. there have been 3 crashes due to trafic taking the wrong left from the waterford side grannagh roundabout. Signage is useless on the waterford side. You cant see any of the exits as the roundabout is at the top of a hill. I've seen so many cars sweve in front of me when they realise they aree in the wrong lane.

JohnC. · 17-03-2011 9:51am

It's not signage causing problems there. It's people driving with their eyes closed or thinking they know better than the road markings. It's clearly marked which lane is for what. And the road marking can be seen from way down the road, so it being on a hill is not the problem. If anything, the markings on a hill make them more visible from far away.

Deisekickboxing · 17-03-2011 10:04am

Up to recently there was a big led sign with arrows sending cars onto the toll for waterford

fricatus · 17-03-2011 11:00am

Hoffmans wrote: »

Have waterford cc got shares in this toll or what, this business about closing the 4 lanes on Rice bridge for ship see'rs in june is the dumbest move yet
Ok the. Toll barriers are been lifted. BUt this is only to get people crossing the toll and hoping they keep usin it when they come down again...

Were you there in 2005? The crowds on the bridge were scary. Closing it all is the right way to go. A couple of tolls are a small price to pay for having a huge international event like this in Waterford.

wmpdd3 · 17-03-2011 5:40pm

This is the problem, you get to here, you know you are going to Dublin or Cork. The speed limit is 80k so trafic is moving well, but the tourists in front of you are at a crawl hoping to see a sign somewhere.

http://goo.gl/maps/iaZX

Hoffmans · 17-03-2011 9:26pm

2005 was grand don't think it will be so big this time round seen its coming to dublin nxt yr

dayshah · 17-03-2011 9:33pm

Hoffmans wrote: »

2005 was grand don't think it will be so big this time round seen its coming to dublin nxt yr

Tall Ships in Waterford is a much bigger occasion. We can get the ships right into the city centre, Dublin can't.

I don't see what the problem is with using the new bridge, toll free, for one weekend. Hopefully it will show the benefit of removing the toll altogether.

Hoffmans · 17-03-2011 9:49pm

That's the point the toll won't be removed, it will be increased
....
so what's the attraction with a few boats dockon. In twn?
Who ere haa gone to nu ross lately to see the jeanie jonson,one of the best ships round
.

dayshah · 17-03-2011 9:53pm

Hoffmans wrote: »

That's the point the toll won't be removed, it will be increased
....
so what's the attraction with a few boats dockon. In twn?
Who ere haa gone to nu ross lately to see the jeanie jonson,one of the best ships round
.

But you said the toll barriers would be lifted on the weekend. I assumed that means it will be free.
The attraction with the boats is shown by the numbers that turned up last time.

Hoffmans · 17-03-2011 10:19pm

That was then don't think people are so. Stuck for a day out this time round seen the cost
a fuel and the craic With gettin into the city with the main bridge bein turned into a 4 lane footpath

Sully · 18-03-2011 1:37pm

Toll Bridge is free for the occasion, no charge. Also, they can't legally raise the price even if it wasn't free, that's why their prices are lower.

JohnC. · 19-03-2011 11:31am

Just wondering how is it being made free? Did the operator agree out of the goodness of their hearts or did the council or someone have to pay them off?

looksee · 19-03-2011 12:05pm

I agree that the signage needs some attentiion. If you are coming from Cork to Tramore it is much better to turn off to Kilmeaden and take the Orchardstown road to Tramore. The signage takes you all the way into the Ring road and out the Tramore road.

Also if you are going from the Cork road to Kilkenny it would be helpful to have a sign for Kilkenny as well as Dublin at the turn off. Once you are on the motorway Kilkenny is signed, but it is not very clear before that.

tonc76 · 19-03-2011 1:20pm

looksee wrote: »

I agree that the signage needs some attentiion. If you are coming from Cork to Tramore it is much better to turn off to Kilmeaden and take the Orchardstown road to Tramore. The signage takes you all the way into the Ring road and out the Tramore road.

Also if you are going from the Cork road to Kilkenny it would be helpful to have a sign for Kilkenny as well as Dublin at the turn off. Once you are on the motorway Kilkenny is signed, but it is not very clear before that.

Am interested to know why you think Kilmeaden - Orchardstown - Tramore is "better"? The road from the Sweep pub to Tramore Cross is dangerous with no hard shoulder and few passing opportunities as is much of the regional road to Tramore (save for a ~2-3 km section out of the total 12km length). The N25 from Kilmeaden - ORR - Tramore is segregated carriageway for ~14km of the 22km route and the 8km from ORR to Tramore itself has hard shoulders and good passing opportunities. This route is obviously longer but is far safer to travel (which is often not considered as its virtually impossible to evaluate in monetary terms).

mike65 · 19-03-2011 1:25pm

tonc76 wrote: »

Am interested to know why you think Kilmeaden - Orchardstown - Tramore is "better"? The road from the Sweep pub to Tramore Cross is dangerous with no hard shoulder and few passing opportunities as is much of the regional road to Tramore (save for a ~2-3 km section out of the total 12km length). The N25 from Kilmeaden - ORR - Tramore is segregated carriageway for ~14km of the 22km route and the 8km from ORR to Tramore itself has hard shoulders and good passing opportunities. This route is obviously longer but is far safer to travel (which is often not considered as its virtually impossible to evaluate in monetary terms).

Its 3 miles you don't need an overtaking opportunity. If I were heading for Tramore from the west I'd go nowhere near the bypass/ORR/Tramore road, not unless I was a bit weird anyway.

tonc76 · 19-03-2011 3:13pm

mike65 wrote: »

Its 3 miles you don't need an overtaking opportunity. If I were heading for Tramore from the west I'd go nowhere near the bypass/ORR/Tramore road, not unless I was a bit weird anyway.

Just because you don't need passing opportunities doesn't mean that loons won't try to pass but the abscence of hard shoulders increases the risk of accidents for all road users. The original question I asked was about a posters opinion about Kilmeaden - Orchardstown - Tramore being the "better" route. I just gave my opinion on why I think N25 - ORR - Tramore route makes more sense to me. I don't think the reasons that I gave make me a weirdo? From reading your posts over the years I have you down as a bit weird anyway

wmpdd3 · 19-03-2011 9:52pm

I go that way because its a 80k speed limit rather than a 60k speed limit and I'm not a fast driver!

leg wax · 20-03-2011 3:06pm

i think they should put the toll on the old bridge and get the traffic out of the city if it is not needed there.;)

leg wax · 26-03-2011 2:52pm

no replys , must be a good idea so.

chelloveks · 26-03-2011 3:10pm

leg wax wrote: »

no replys , must be a good idea so.

Brilliant....maybe they should demolish the old bridge to generate more tolls on the new one!!!!

dayshah · 26-03-2011 5:06pm

leg wax wrote: »

i think they should put the toll on the old bridge and get the traffic out of the city if it is not needed there.;)

Well, it would be in line with London's congestion charge. I don't see why we should try divert traffic into the city centre, which is basically what we are doing.

pjq · 08-09-2011 12:06pm

Take a look at this beauty http://www.abelard.org/france/viaduct-de-millau.php , they opened new tourist offices to cope with the visitors,

France 2460m long, 280m over river, 7 pylons,highest 343m, Cost €400-m, complete 2004
Ireland 465m long, 14m over the river, 1 pylon,highest 118m,Cost €500-m, complete 2009

Millau carried 4,670,449 vehicles in 2008, costs €6.40 for a car in low season ( to save 100km) and is the highest road bridge in the world.

Whats my point ?? We over paid for what we got , the French got bigger higher and better for less money. Now we are paying the tolls.

Why ? http://www.waterfordcity.ie/n25bypass/files/N25-PromoBrouchure.pdf

pjq

Bards · 08-09-2011 1:38pm

pjq wrote: »

Take a look at this beauty http://www.abelard.org/france/viaduct-de-millau.php , they opened new tourist offices to cope with the visitors,

France 2460m long, 280m over river, 7 pylons,highest 343m, Cost €400-m, complete 2004
Ireland 465m long, 14m over the river, 1 pylon,highest 118m,Cost €500-m, complete 2009

Millau carried 4,670,449 vehicles in 2008, costs €6.40 for a car in low season ( to save 100km) and is the highest road bridge in the world.

Whats my point ?? We over paid for what we got , the French got bigger higher and better for less money. Now we are paying the tolls.

Why ? http://www.waterfordcity.ie/n25bypass/files/N25-PromoBrouchure.pdf

pjq

€400m was for the Milau Viaduct alone

€500 was for the complete bypass 23Km long including land acquisition costs. about €200m excluding land costs

Suir bridge cost in the region of €30m

so please compare like with like - I think our tolls are relatively cheap vis-a-vis our European neighbours

Max Powers · 08-09-2011 1:39pm

leg wax wrote: »

i think they should put the toll on the old bridge and get the traffic out of the city if it is not needed there.;)

A toll on Rice bridge and none on Suir Bridge, thats an excellent idea, if only our government could think like that. The only thing our idiots will do is tax both of em

hardybuck · 08-09-2011 2:02pm

Who cares if they are making any money or not. They should ban trucks and heavy goods vehicles from using the centre from peak busy times and leave it at that.

By charging people to enter the city centre, have any of you considered that people mightn't bother going there at all? We're having enough competition from Kilkenny, Clonmel and Wexford as it is, thats before you factor in how accessible Dublin is now.

Also, how about all the people who need to use Rice Bridge to get home in the evening coming and going on both sides? About five miles of a detour each way - no thanks.

jayboi · 08-09-2011 6:55pm

You would have to adjust those figures for inflation as well.

Maybe if they move the toll to the m9 and do a ban on heavy goods vechials useing Rice Bridge

Yes i am aware the bypass and m9 were different projects.

Master and commander · 09-09-2011 2:46pm

Someone mentioned the council making the quays more pedestrian friendly and less traffic friendly -WTF, so in their wisdom they plan to make a bad traffic situation even worse by sticking in loads off ped lights and traffic islands. What idiots.

anyway the bypass was doomed from day 1. Its based around drivers from one side of the city using the bridge to access the other side of the city. The actual number using it for going Cork-Rosslare are tiny, not may people do that journey nowadays, only trucks - and trucks won't pay the ripp off toll, they'll just go they quays and they do. Just look at the way the signage suggests you go if you are coming in from the new ross side and want to go to tramore road say (waterford south). The signs suggest you drive all the way (4ish miles) up to the suir bridge, SHELL OUT, then drive all the way back into town on the southern side. What person in their right mind would make a 5 minute journey into a 15-20 minute one and burn up to 2 litres of fuel driving the best part of 10 miles - Let alone then actually PAYING OUT for the privilage of doing so. No, i like everyone else just keeps my money and fuel and takes the rice bridge/quays route and get there in 1/3 of the time.

Its too oversized anyway. It a fecking motorway standard road (in effect if not in name). There was no need for that monumental project. This is fecking Waaaawturfud, not los angeles FFS.

It would have been quite sufficient to have a high standard single carriageway, with a brigde linking newrath to the billberry/gracedeiu area, and then continuing out through carrickpeerish/gracedeiu to link up with the old n25 out by butlerstown somewhere, with a few interchanges/roundabouts along the way so people could actually use it without having to drive half way across the county to access it. A separate single carriageway bypass could have been built around kilmeaden as the waterford/kilmeaden N25 was just fine as it was.
A nice plain, cheap and cheeful 70's style precast concrete and low deck single carriageway bridge would have been perfectly adequate, no need for the monstrous phallus that we now have scarring the skyline for ever more.
Low deck - lets face it there no longer is nor will there ever be any kind ships going upstream of waterford, there is a small oil depot in fiddown but shure i don't even know if its still open, and if it is it won't be for long - its a very small and very old and decrepid Morris Oil depot.

I suppose its just a symtom of the sort of mania that gripped the place over the past decade.
That bridge is an awful awful piece of work. It blights the skyline from as far away as mullinavat. Any chance someone would blow it up and do waterford a favour:D

wet-paint · 09-09-2011 3:44pm

I think it's quite attractive looking.

wmpdd3 · 09-09-2011 5:54pm

I am happy with the standard, may as well make it motorway standard, how long will it be before it is renovated...20years?

I really do object to the stupid signage. Trying to give directions to tourists comming from Rosslare to town and you have to tell them to ignore the sign that says Waterford South (N25 toll) and follow the white sign for Bellview!

Then the other stupid sign saying 'roadworks of the quay, alternate route' at the station. A five mile round trip costing €1.80, when you can just go up Bridge st.

Its like having a sign at the Dunkettle roundabout in Cork telling you to go through the Jack Lynch to get to the city center.

The Failed Waterford Bypass and Toll System

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