The Failed Waterford Bypass and Toll System

wmpdd3

I have never seen anyone jump the lights at the Bowery either, must be the only place you dont see it. Buy I dont use that junction that often.

I have no problem driving up the quay but I stay in my lane and if you veere into my lane without an indicator you will be repainting you car. If you are stopped in a lane, you will be beckoned to move.

Cabaal

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I have never seen anyone jump the lights at the Bowery either, must be the only place you dont see it. Buy I dont use that junction that often.

I've seen it happen a good few times, incidentally the first time I saw it there was a Gardai car behind me at the lights which in turn went flying after the tool who broke the lights

Sully

Depending on the time of day, those traffic lights at the Bowery are to quick at changing so you get about two cars past.

Speak Now

Where's the Bowery? is it the Reginald?

I've noticed they're the quickest changing lights around town.

What i mean is when your coming from the Lombard street side and turning right onto the quay if the light goes amber as you're driving through then by the time you pass the pedestrian crossing outside the Jade the green man is already on.

My pet hate is actually coming back down the Quay and turning left onto Lombard street. Always seems to be one car in wrong lane looking to go straight on that holds up all the traffic when the left filter arrow comes on. Would certainly need to keep two lanes in this area if the quay was changed into one.

mike65

bump! from IrishTimes

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0510/breaking34.html

Another poor performer is the Waterford toll road where Mr Barry said traffic volumes were below “anything” that was anticipated either by the NRA or the road builders. But he said the commercial risk there and in other loss making PPPs was “borne entirely by the PPP company involved”.

CardBordWindow

Of course the figures are down from estimates. Not only has the ecomony gone to pot, but when they were calculating the traffic on the old bridge, it was the same time that they were excavating for the new bridge. All the soil they dug up was then driven to Grannagh, which increased the number of vehicles crossing the bridge.

hardybuck

CardBordWindow wrote: »

Of course the figures are down from estimates. Not only has the ecomony gone to pot, but when they were calculating the traffic on the old bridge, it was the same time that they were excavating for the new bridge. All the soil they dug up was then driven to Grannagh, which increased the number of vehicles crossing the bridge.

Ah come on, surely they factored in that extra traffic when making their estimates!?

Bards

CardBordWindow wrote: »

Of course the figures are down from estimates. Not only has the ecomony gone to pot, but when they were calculating the traffic on the old bridge, it was the same time that they were excavating for the new bridge. All the soil they dug up was then driven to Grannagh, which increased the number of vehicles crossing the bridge.

Traffic counting was done years before the awarding of the contract and not during construction.

fitzeyboy.

It's probably because they assumed that the percentage of passing traffic was higher than it is. In reality most of the traffic coming over the bridge is and was at the time of the survey, coming into the city.

fricatus

fitzeyboy. wrote: »

It's probably because they assumed that the percentage of passing traffic was higher than it is. In reality most of the traffic coming over the bridge is and was at the time of the survey, coming into the city.

I'd say you're right. Because the N25 is designated as the Cork-Rosslare route, the NRA probably let that cloud their thinking, and assumed that a lot more of the traffic crossing Rice Bridge was through traffic. That's the only explanation I can think of. But the fact is, most of the traffic on the routes into Waterford is going to or from Waterford.

Through traffic will of course use the toll bridge, but local traffic will only do so occasionally. The bulk of the traffic is local: in 2006, there were 42,000 vehicles a day crossing Rice Bridge. In January of this year there were 33,000 (source: NRA website). If anything, that latter figure would probably be higher if it were not for the recession, so the ratio of local to passing traffic is probably about 4:1 or 5:1.

hardybuck

I think the City Council should look towards some form of HGV ban if they haven't done so already. Alternatively hauliers possibly should be offered some sort of incentive to use the new bridge as well - some sort of price reduction.

I can remember many days of clogged traffic all up Parnell Street to the Quay. A considerable amount of that traffic was made up of lorries etc.

BBM77

I don’t know about projected figures but I can see with my own eyes that traffic on approaches to Rice Bridge, such as Bridge St, Grattan Quay, Military Road, Summer Hill, Gracedieu Road and The Glen, is lighter at peak times now than before the by-pass opened. Before the bypass opened it used to be grid lock every day, it still does be busy but nothing like it used to be. Don’t get me wrong I still don’t agree with tolling a by-pass. However I it is a bit harsh to call it a failure when people like me can see a noticeable reduction in traffic volumes.

I am just wondering what exactly would constitute success with the by-pass in peoples minds? Traffic volumes are always going to be heavy in Waterford as we are a car dependent city and hinterland. Let’s be honest when people complain about the city centre a lot of it comes down to the fact that you cannot park outside the doors of shops. When this attitude prevails you cannot expect free flowing traffic 24/7.

mike65

Before the bypass opened the economy was booming, I'd say the collapse of business has more to do with lighter volumes of HGVs.

BBM77

mike65 wrote: »

Before the bypass opened the economy was booming, I'd say the collapse of business has more to do with lighter volumes of HGVs.

The down turn has not caused that much of a drop in traffic, not enough to account for the improved traffic volumes in the areas I mentioned. Not to mention that the traffic was always bad in these area even before the so called Celtic Tiger period.

Max Powers

BBM77 wrote: »

The down turn has not caused that much of a drop in traffic, not enough to account for the improved traffic volumes in the areas I mentioned. Not to mention that the traffic was always bad in these area even before the so called Celtic Tiger period.

Disagree with traffic volumes not dropped that much since years ago. Take a look in any liquidation/repossesion sale over last few years and see the amount of work vehicles not on the road anymore. I presume car sales have dropped off. I dont have a car anymore and I know loads of peope who had to get rid too.
I was down the Mall at 8ish in the morning yesterday, eerily quiet for such a normally busy place.

calvin_zola

Max Powers wrote: »

car anymore and I know loads of peope who had to get rid too.
I was down the Mall at 8ish in the morning yesterday, eerily quiet for such a normally busy place.

walk of shame home was it

BBM77

Max Powers wrote: »

Disagree with traffic volumes not dropped that much since years ago. Take a look in any liquidation/repossesion sale over last few years and see the amount of work vehicles not on the road anymore. I presume car sales have dropped off. I dont have a car anymore and I know loads of peope who had to get rid too.
I was down the Mall at 8ish in the morning yesterday, eerily quiet for such a normally busy place.

Well I am 35 now, I grew up in the area I mentioned and I am still around there constantly so I know what I am talking about. Whatever the drop in the number of total vehicles licensed is it would not be enough to account for the drop in traffic volumes, on its own, in the area I mentioned.

Also I worked on Adelphi Quay from 2000 to 2005 and I drove along The Mall every morning at around 8:30am and it was never that busy at that time.

I don’t know if I am missing something or not but what is the problem with the idea that the by-pass has had some positive effects on Waterford. Despite the fact that the majority of people feel it should not be tolled, myself included.

tonc76

fitzeyboy. wrote: »

It's probably because they assumed that the percentage of passing traffic was higher than it is. In reality most of the traffic coming over the bridge is and was at the time of the survey, coming into the city.

There is more to it than assuming where traffic goes! Origin and destination survey/surveys would have been carried out well in advance of planning to determine where traffic was coming from and headed to. These would have been carried out on all routes to and from the city and are used as justification for a bypass.

looksee

Traffic is definitely lighter than it was, even on routes not affected by the by-pass. I used to find that it took up to 45 minutes to get from Tramore to the Mall, mostly waiting at the Balindud roundabout because of the volume of traffic coming from the Dunmore direction towards the Cork Road. Now I can do a straight run in with usually no more than a couple of cars in front of me at the roundabout, about 20 to 25 minutes - the slowest bit being Manor Street and Parnell Street.

bkehoe

Traffic volumes have dropped considerably in and around Waterford in the last few years and are still dropping on some routes at least. The most obvious for me is the reduction in the amount of traffic commuting from Waterford to New Ross - seen in the lack of traffic jam going into New Ross in the evenings these days.

And if anyone wants proof, check out the numbers on the traffic counters. Take the N25 at Glenmore as an example with which to judge the amount of traffic coming to or from Waterford on one of the 3 primary routes feeding the Rice Bridge/new bypass.

Average Daily Volume
Feb 2006: 12,355
Feb 2007: 12,409
Feb 2008: 12,750
Feb 2009: 11,731
Feb 2010: 11,840
Feb 2011: 10,771
Feb 2012: 10,447

That's over 2000 cars per day less on the N25 today than at the peak in 2007/2008.

Anybody remember the days that the traffic into Waterford on the N25 used to stretch out almost as far as Slieverue and would take 30 - 45mins just to get to the bridge? I rest my case.

bkehoe

To add to this, traffic crossing Rice Bridge...

Jan 2007: 41,164
Jan 2009: 37,626
Jan 2012: 33,131

Yes this is a bypass affected route, but the point I'm making is the traffic crossing the bridge had already dropped by about 3500 cars per day before the new bypass and bridge opened; a direct result of the downturn.

Finnbar01

bkehoe wrote: »

To add to this, traffic crossing Rice Bridge...

Jan 2007: 41,164
Jan 2009: 37,626
Jan 2012: 33,131

Yes this is a bypass affected route, but the point I'm making is the traffic crossing the bridge had already dropped by about 3500 cars per day before the new bypass and bridge opened; a direct result of the downturn.

What downturn?

road_high

bkehoe wrote: »

And if anyone wants proof, check out the numbers on the traffic counters. Take the N25 at Glenmore as an example with which to judge the amount of traffic coming to or from Waterford on one of the 3 primary routes feeding the Rice Bridge/new bypass.

Average Daily Volume
Feb 2006: 12,355
Feb 2007: 12,409
Feb 2008: 12,750
Feb 2009: 11,731
Feb 2010: 11,840
Feb 2011: 10,771
Feb 2012: 10,447

That's over 2000 cars per day less on the N25 today than at the peak in 2007/2008.

Anybody remember the days that the traffic into Waterford on the N25 used to stretch out almost as far as Slieverue and would take 30 - 45mins just to get to the bridge? I rest my case.

A lot of Waterford-Dublin traffic used use this road before the M9 was completed so I would say some of the drop is accounted for there so it's a little distorted...

ex_infantry man

i drive for a living and i have noticed a drop off in traffic volumes every day even when i get onto the m11 heading for arklow there used be loads of cars fly past me every morning not so much these days

bkehoe

mfitzy wrote: »

A lot of Waterford-Dublin traffic used use this road before the M9 was completed so I would say some of the drop is accounted for there so it's a little distorted...

Doesn't explain the associated drop in traffic over Rice bridge before the motorway or bypass opened though.

road_high

bkehoe wrote: »

Doesn't explain the associated drop in traffic over Rice bridge before the motorway or bypass opened though.

Sure, but the figures (to which I commented on) you quoted are/were for the N25 at Glenmore? I never mentioned Rice Bridge...

bkehoe

mfitzy wrote: »

Sure, but the figures (to which I commented on) you quoted are/were for the N25 at Glenmore? I never mentioned Rice Bridge...

I posted both sets of figures - both N25 traffic and Rice Bridge traffic, and both dropped long before the bypass or motorway were open.

mike65

Finnbar01 wrote: »

What downturn?

er you may have spotted this sort of thing

road_high

bkehoe wrote: »

I posted both sets of figures - both N25 traffic and Rice Bridge traffic, and both dropped long before the bypass or motorway were open.

Yes, but I was specifically quoting the N25 Glenmore ones in my post

Finnbar01

mike65 wrote: »

er you may have spotted this sort of thing

What are you on about? What's with that photo? When do you know will those houses be completed. i want to buy one or two as investment pwopweties.