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Outrage Joe! Talk talk staff given a months notice

2456

Comments

  • #32
    FetchTheGin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin


    Lisbon for jobs.


  • #33
    Eroticfishcake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭Eroticfishcake


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    "Staff had recently been sent to train workers in foreign call centres -- before being told their own jobs were being cut."

    They had far more then a months notice then. Even if it wasn't explicitly said.

    Which is even more disrespectful to the employees here. Communication re the layoffs should have been upfront and honest before training foreign workers.


  • #34
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    mathie wrote: »
    The problem is also that our minimum wage is too high.
    We're not competitive enough.

    I hate hearing this. Will it be you who volunteers to work in your current position for €4.50 an hour? ''We'' have many problems. The minimum wage being cut won't solve even most of them. It may make things worse if we do cut it.


  • #35
    mathie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭mathie


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    I hate hearing this. Will it be you who volunteers to work in your current position for €4.50 an hour? ''We'' have many problems. The minimum wage being cut won't solve even most of them. It may make things worse if we do cut it.

    No I won't volunteer as I'm a skilled worker.

    It's all relative.
    Not just the minimum wage needs to be lowered but the higher and all wages too.
    Once wages come down prices of goods and services can too.

    It's all about being competetive and we are nowhere near that.

    Take a look at ESB.


  • #36
    Caoimhín
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭Caoimhín


    mathie wrote: »
    Once wages come down prices of goods and services can too.
    .

    If only it were that simple.


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  • #37
    mathie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭mathie


    Caoimhín wrote: »
    If only it were that simple.

    Yeah I'd agree.

    The damage done by benchmarking and inflated wages in the boom times is still haunting us.


  • #38
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    Caoimhín wrote: »
    mathie wrote: »
    Once wages come down prices of goods and services can too.
    .

    If only it were that simple.

    I don't see how it is any more complicated than that, but we'll be an awful long time getting there for as long as we are still giving our chief bean counter a 700k handshake on his retirement day and giving 11k Rolex watches to the guys behind the banking policies that have caused our whole economy to collapse.

    The thinking, the mindsets and the decisions that we need to get in place in order to start fixing things in this country and first of all stop losing jobs, let alone start creating them, we are a universe away from doing what is required. It's mind boggling how far away we are from the necessary actions to fix things in this place...


  • #39
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    NothingMan wrote: »
    Ah now, whatever about the closure etc... It's the start of September, it's not coming up to feckin xmas. Can I at least get my halloween over and done with before we start this.

    err, yeah it is, christmas rush starts in late october, thats just over a month away.


    its 16 weeks to christmas, it'll be here before you know it, those peoples finances are probably ****ed until the new year, christmas temp jobs will be like gold dust in Waterford now with an extra 600 people looking for work.


  • #40
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    newballsplease wrote: »
    You havent a clue what your talking about. 4 weeks? For the years people put in. As if a huge company like that, didnt have this planned months in advance.
    Coming up to the christmas time.
    This is the same company that closed the plant down in Sligo aswell.

    Its a joke.

    The media knew about this before some employees.

    Classic sh1t from a sh1t company.

    Only just over a year ago as well.


  • #41
    Orando Broom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Orando Broom


    stephendevlin wrote: »
    Guaranteed you will see Christmas shops opening up before halloween this year

    Brown Thomas have all the Decor for Christmas up. No NAMA there..


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  • #42
    NothingMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,178 ✭✭✭✭NothingMan


    krudler wrote: »
    err, yeah it is, christmas rush starts in late october, thats just over a month away.


    its 16 weeks to christmas, it'll be here before you know it, those peoples finances are probably ****ed until the new year, christmas temp jobs will be like gold dust in Waterford now with an extra 600 people looking for work.


    I'm not saying they won't be struggling financially over xmas because of this. Obviously a lot will but it's September. Tacking on the extra guilt of sacking them when it's "coming up to xmas" is just pulling emotional heart strings to make it seem like talk talk are that bit more evil. This could have happened at any time of year and EARLY September is not even close to "coming up to xmas" in my opinion.

    I still think a months notice is way too short for announcing that kind of scenario but leave xmas out of it, it's feckin miles off. Yes it might be here before I know it, but it'll seem all the more quickly if everyone thinks it starts in September. Years are going too fast as it is, I'm 26 now ffs, I don't have that many left :pac:.


  • #43
    Kanoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭Kanoe


    it's not just the loss of jobs at talk talk, it's the all over effect of the job losses from the biggest employers down here, it's genuinely not an over reaction. My sister worked there for 9 years, no one knew until yesterday when they got an email at 11, there was shock at how it ocurred. My brother was employed in waterford crystal until it went bust and my other sister in Teva and it melted too. Waterford City is practically dying on it's feet, these were the biggest employers in the area and there's very little left to sustain the workforce here, there was little or no intervention from any govt dept, little media attention at the time given to the state of affairs down here and it has left the south east with disproportional unemployment figures to the rest of the country. It's just a backwater where issues are swept under the carpet and forgotten about. People are píssed off.


  • #44
    Orando Broom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Orando Broom


    Create jobs? Out of what? We have nothing to offer the world. We rely on the largesse of American multinationals for one thing and guess what not a single job was created in the USA in the month of August, not one.

    People are talking here and elsewhere like there is a jobs factory spitting out jobs, there's not.

    Knowledge economy don't make me ****ing laugh. Our 'knowledge economy' can be more accurately described as a lemming economy with one tom after another running into yellow pack courses in IT's to become IT techs or 'engineers'. If that sounds like snobbery I'm sorry but I right. You simply cannot expect to lead the field producing people who got in to collge on sub 300 points and no second level fine tuning in your education path. I would have waltzed into computers or engineering on my LC points and I passed pass maths and quit TD at junior cert level. Ireland needs to get a ****ing grip and realise that we are a tiny ill prepared market in a massive ocean of global unemployment. we no longer have a comparative advantage, we are not cheap labour, we are not a very well educated nation (one University in the top 200), we offer a global mobile world nothing.


  • #45
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    I don't see how it is any more complicated than that, but we'll be an awful long time getting there for as long as we are still giving our chief bean counter a 700k handshake on his retirement day and giving 11k Rolex watches to the guys behind the banking policies that have caused our whole economy to collapse.

    The thinking, the mindsets and the decisions that we need to get in place in order to start fixing things in this country and first of all stop losing jobs, let alone start creating them, we are a universe away from doing what is required. It's mind boggling how far away we are from the necessary actions to fix things in this place...

    I've been hearing this argument siince the mid nineties when big manufacturing companies located here. Costs suddenly became ''an issue'' and it seems to me nothing was ever done about it.

    Everytime I hear someone talk about this subject I tell them that some of the biggest factories in the world opperate in countries where the cost of land and labour are relatively high. I'd advise the Taoiseach to take a trip to Japan where rates of productivity are high along with the cost off doing business.

    Japan values itself, it's people more than we do. That's the differrence IMO.


  • #46
    Orando Broom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Orando Broom


    Kanoe wrote: »
    it's not just the loss of jobs at talk talk, it's the all over effect of the job losses from the biggest employers down here, it's genuinely not an over reaction. My sister worked there for 9 years, no one knew until yesterday when they got an email at 11, there was shock at how it ocurred. My brother was employed in waterford crystal until it went bust and my other sister in Teva and it melted too. Waterford City is practically dying on it's feet, these were the biggest employers in the area and there's very little left to sustain the workforce here, there was little or no intervention from any govt dept, little media attention at the time given to the state of affairs down here and it has left the south east with disproportional unemployment figures to the rest of the country. It's just a backwater where issues are swept under the carpet and forgotten about. People are píssed off.


    One quick point about Waterford, it is a town riddled with socialists and unions, neither conducive to retaining jobs.


  • #47
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Ignoring the OP's original inflammatory question for a moment - because of course I would have a lot of sympathy for the staff who are being made redundant. I do find it somewhat strange however that the media tend to focus on certain company closure and ignore others - it seems to have more to do with the brand recognition of the company concerned than with the number of staff involved.
    For example, I worked for a large multi-national engineering consultancy up until last year. Over the course of about 6 months they let well over 400 people go - I was one of them.
    We only got statutory redundancy payments (the scabby b@stards), but I never heard a thing about it on tv/radio or read any articles in newspapers. Contrast this with the amount of media coverage given to the 'Talk Talk' closure.

    I think it's strange that these different criteria seem to apply to what the media deem as newsworthy - at the end of the day, the effects on the economy as a whole is pretty much the same from these 2 scenarios.


  • #48
    Orando Broom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Orando Broom


    black francis wrote: »
    Ignoring the OP's original inflammatory question for a moment - because of course I would have a lot of sympathy for the staff who are being made redundant. I do find it somewhat strange however that the media tend to focus on certain company closure and ignore others - it seems to have more to do with the brand recognition of the company concerned than with the number of staff involved.
    For example, I worked for a large multi-national engineering consultancy up until last year. Over the course of about 6 months they let well over 400 people go - I was one of them.
    We only got statutory redundancy payments (the scabby b@stards), but I never heard a thing about it on tv/radio or read any articles in newspapers. Contrast this with the amount of media coverage given to the 'Talk Talk' closure.

    I think it's strange that these different criteria seem to apply to what the media deem as newsworthy - at the end of the day, the effects on the economy as a whole is pretty much the same from these 2 scenarios.


    If that company was in a region with high employment then it might slip under the radar. Waterford would be a vulnerable region and 600 odd jobs would he huge.

    I see you point, by the way I'm just being polemical.


  • #49
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    Orando Broom wrote: »
    Create jobs? Out of what? We have nothing to offer the world. We rely on the largesse of American multinationals for one thing and guess what not a single job was created in the USA in the month of August, not one.

    People are talking here and elsewhere like there is a jobs factory spitting out jobs, there's not
    .

    I was on the dole until recently, 6 months ago I started up my own business (web based business), and I haven't looked back since.

    But getting that small amount of seed capital to get started, I had every door slammed in my face. I can tell you from experience that in this country, you get more thanks for staying on the dole. Every state agency that is meant to be helping people like me, be it FAS, the County Enterprise Boards, Enterprise Ireland, and the rest of then, are filled to the ceiling with civil servant minded "for the file", paperpushing obstructionist PR*CKS, who only clock in every day to get paid their Croke Park protected salaries.

    If you want to start a business in this backwater kip and get yourself off the dole, be prepared to fight every government agency above and the w*nkers that work in it.


  • #50
    Kanoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭Kanoe


    Orando Broom wrote: »
    One quick point about Waterford, it is a town riddled with socialists and unions, neither conducive to retaining jobs.
    as far as I'm aware most of the employees in Talk talk aren't members of any union.


  • #51
    7sr2z3fely84g5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭7sr2z3fely84g5


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    paperpushing obstructionist PR*CKS, who only clock in every day to get paid their Croke Park protected salaries.
    Agreed,cuts must start from the top,but there's so many terms and conditions in contracts going back years it would probably take a another lifetime before its ever even between some sections of pub/priv sector,also the problem lies most of those elected are part of the sector so no-one is going to break the ranks in reforming.

    But also our problem lies within the euro,before we joined it we had a lot of good manufacturing companies which took advantage of the then low wages/corporation tax in europe,but since we joined and strangled with the euro we cant afford to do much,even england recently had power to briefly devalue their currency to try and kick-start the country.

    i only think most companies are staying here for tax reasons,nothing else really to stop them moving abroad and getting the local non college/uni educated villagers to assemble/service goods.


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  • #52
    Orando Broom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Orando Broom


    Kanoe wrote: »
    as far as I'm aware most of the employees in Talk talk aren't members of any union.

    They're not, but a lot of the industry around Waterford was heavily rooted in Unions. Waterford Crystal being particularly militant.


  • #53
    Jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 269 ✭✭Jam


    Orando Broom wrote: »
    Knowledge economy don't make me ****ing laugh.

    Don't forget we were the e-hub of Europe, too. I don't know what it was the years between.


  • #54
    FetchTheGin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin


    Jam wrote: »
    Don't forget we were the e-hub of Europe, too. I don't know what it was the years between.

    We were the 'all you can eat credit' hub before then. :pac:


  • #55
    Kanoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭Kanoe


    Orando Broom wrote: »
    They're not, but a lot of the industry around Waterford was heavily rooted in Unions. Waterford Crystal being particularly militant.
    waterford crystal employees lost everything when it went under, including their pensions that they had paid into religiously and they received statutory redundancy's.
    Its a no win situation, unions are necessary for the workers rights in this country, they were established during a time when they had little or none. A few years ago I was working for the dept of ed when I was, without notice, left go to be replaced by a staff members neice. I wasn't a member of a union at the time but someone suggested I talk to their union rep and within two days I was reinstated and the staff member who outed me was forced to resign for misconduct. I'm still not a member of a union but to suggest they are the reason for job losses in the region is a bit ott.


  • #56
    Orando Broom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Orando Broom


    Kanoe wrote: »
    waterford crystal employees lost everything when it went under, including their pensions that they had paid into religiously and they received statutory redundancy's.
    Its a no win situation, unions are necessary for the workers rights in this country, they were established during a time when they had little or none. A few years ago I was working for the dept of ed when I was, without notice, left go to be replaced by a staff members neice. I wasn't a member of a union at the time but someone suggested I talk to their union rep and within two days I was reinstated and the staff member who outed me was forced to resign for misconduct. I'm still not a member of a union but to suggest they are the reason for job losses in the region is a bit ott.

    Not Waterford but our Unions encapsulated.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73150384


  • #57
    Blandpebbles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Blandpebbles


    OP has it right... usual moan if its 1 month moan if its 6 months. Listening to some politico fella on news talk this morning wittering on about how the government should step in make Waterford the once industrial hub it was, again.

    Silly stuff, times are hard all around... my sympathies to the staff but such is busy...

    Makes me laugh to say people writing 'grrr the money grabbing companies'.. errr yes, its called running a business.

    Come on folks, less of the arent we all so in touch with our feelings and more of the another reason why Seanie and Drummo should be prosecuted..


  • #58
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,967 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Orando Broom wrote: »
    They're not, but a lot of the industry around Waterford was heavily rooted in Unions. Waterford Crystal being particularly militant.

    Waterford dockers too, did damage to the cities reputation, Cork did well out it though, New Ross got extra business also

    I'll quote an interesting post about it from last month :)
    giles lynchwood wrote: »
    Belview port did not exsist at this time.
    The Cause.
    There was team´s of docker´s known as gang´s to unload each ship about 10 members in each gang.When a gang member died it was common practice not to replace him and divide up his wage´s between the remaining members of his gang,this was allowed to go on for years until the recession of the 80´s when the Harbour board decided to put a stop to it as part of their cost cutting plan.The docker´s refused and would not even enter into talk´s,went on strike, which lasted 13 years, during this time not one ship was allowed to use Waterford port.

    The Effect.
    Bear in mind Waterford port has two massive advantage´s over it´s rival`s,Dublin and Cork.
    1) It has a bigger draft,i.e it can accomadate bigger ships.
    2) It is the closest Irish port to mainland Europe.

    Waterford Industrial estate was in it´s infancy at this time and seeking international companies,to set up there,but because it was not possable for them to import raw materials via Waterford port,shipping material to Dublin or Cork and then by road or rail to Waterford was never going to happen,Waterford industrial estate lost out big time to Dublin and Cork and only got a few crumbs from the table i.e the IDA.Waterford was one of the worst hit regions of the eighties recession,with massive unemployment.
    Waterford also got the dubious tag as being very millant,our chipboard factory had also closed due to a strike,ironically one of the first ships to use Waterford port after the strike came to collect bales of Irish timber for export,that was used to make chipboard which was then reimported.

    In the early 90´s the leader of SIPTU (recently formed)brokered a deal and to much fanfair(RTE even showed up) the first ship sailed up the mighty suir,only to be stormed by the docker´s who staged a sit in for a few days,as if enough damage had not been done, evenually she was allowed to leave empty,but not before the captain gave an interview to RTE,broadcast all over Europe saying he will never use waterford port again and will be adviseing all captains to do the same as a quick turaround is the name of the game in shipping.

    During this time Cork grew into the region you see today,great roads and the countrys second airport,this was ours for the taking.I have my own opinions on this era but i will let you decide for youself all i will say is that it was digraceful to let a small few ruin it for so many.Waterford port was our greatest asset and can be again as was proven by the tall ships.
    Lynchwood

    Bit offtopic for this thread, just a bit of history, that's all


  • #59
    FetchTheGin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin


    mikemac wrote: »


    Bit offtopic for this thread, just a bit of history, that's all

    Amazing.

    This type of stuff has been going on for many years now, you need not look far to see it.


  • #60
    Orando Broom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Orando Broom


    Recommended reading:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Revolution-Story-Official-Workers/dp/1844881202


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  • #61
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Blandpebbles wrote: »
    OP has it right... usual moan if its 1 month moan if its 6 months. Listening to some politico fella on news talk this morning wittering on about how the government should step in make Waterford the once industrial hub it was, again.

    Silly stuff, times are hard all around... my sympathies to the staff but such is busy...

    Makes me laugh to say people writing 'grrr the money grabbing companies'.. errr yes, its called running a business.

    Come on folks, less of the arent we all so in touch with our feelings and more of the another reason why Seanie and Drummo should be prosecuted..

    It's the under handed way they went about it, sending staff out to train employees in India and lying about why, organising a party in England for some of the staff, so there mustn't have been too much wrong with the factory.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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