Cannonball Run in the Leaf

650Ginge · 07-09-2011 08:10PM

TestTransmission wrote: »

I think you're part of the 0.1% somehow, aren't you a Prius owner?

Good memory, I do currently have a Prius. But I have had 27 other cars including a couple that could manage 150mph when most cars couldn't manage a 100mph, 9 different motorbikes, my current two both do over 160mph if you are stupid enough, I have a camper that only does 22mpg. I am currently looking for a 928.

I love F1, rally cars, drifting, motobike racing. So what 0.1% am I in.

I would like to know what percentage of cars on the road are Prius just outta curiousity.

I am going to say it again, a prius is not perfect and I think lots of people will not really like them but they wont hate them if they actually drove one.

650Ginge · 07-09-2011 08:13PM

Hammertime wrote: »

Your hardly impartial now are you?

Not even trying or thinking of impartiality, just hate the way people say "99.9% of people" to add weight to their own opinion, would you not have to ask every one. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I just think you should give yours and let everyone else give theirs.

Mycroft H · 07-09-2011 08:36PM

Ahhh cmon, the leaf is in less glamorous company to be fair.

There is a bloody X5 going for gods sake......

L1011 · 07-09-2011 08:39PM

Having seen the ESB use *flatbed trailers* to move their e-car fleet around due to lack of range, I'll be waiting to see the Leaf manage to lose every other car on the Run after its first stop.

eagerv · 07-09-2011 08:54PM

As a car enthusiast and a technofile I would be very happy to drive any of the competing cars including the Leaf!

Sesshoumaru · 07-09-2011 09:56PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I'd define longer journeys in Ireland as atleast being capable of a single journey from the east to the west coast of the country without the need for a half day refuelling/recharging operation, this is not possible right now without stopping and charging. I fear their publicity campaign with this "race" only makes the weaknesses in the car more apparent. A horse and cart would be the next slowest mode of transport on 4 wheels, would probably do Dublin to Galway in 2 days with a couple of stops for a snooze and oats along the way

East to West? Dublin to Galway requires one 30 minute stop in Athlone. The Leaf can ingest 50 kilowatts of DC through its second larger DC port in the front.

Port on left is for 50kw DC input and right side is for your regular 16amp 220 volt AC.

Sesshoumaru · 07-09-2011 10:03PM

MYOB wrote: »

Having seen the ESB use *flatbed trailers* to move their e-car fleet around due to lack of range, I'll be waiting to see the Leaf manage to lose every other car on the Run after its first stop.

Their fleet up until now has consisted of 10+ Mitsubishi imiev cars that they imported from Japan themselves to use for testing. Those cars have less range than the Leaf and up until very recently there were no FCP's to support longer journeys. But I'm sure they probably had to move them around to support testing of slow chargers around the country.

-Chris- · 07-09-2011 10:03PM

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

East to West? Dublin to Galway requires one 30 minute stop in Athlone. The Leaf can ingest 50 kilowatts of DC through its second larger DC port in the front.

http://www.trix.com/GroundLoop/Leaf-power-ports.jpg

Port on left is for 50kw DC input and right side is for your regular 16amp 220 volt AC.

That still seems frustrating to me, you can get from Dublin to Galway in a touch over 2 hours now, so having to stop for 30 mins is actually a significant delay.

Realistically it'd actually cost you 45 mins+ with leaving & rejoining the motorway and the minutes lost either side of filling up.

So your over and back journey has now changed from a little over 4 hours to a little over 5.5 hours. Quite a difference.

Dublin to Galway is a journey that barely needs a bathroom break anymore, never mind a stop for a snack and a cuppa while your car recharges.

dr.fuzzenstein · 07-09-2011 10:05PM

BX 19 wrote: »

Ahhh cmon, the leaf is in less glamorous company to be fair.

There is a bloody X5 going for gods sake......

X1 would have been unforgivable.;)

L1011 · 07-09-2011 10:13PM

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

East to West? Dublin to Galway requires one 30 minute stop in Athlone. The Leaf can ingest 50 kilowatts of DC through its second larger DC port in the front.

It takes me 90 minutes to get from my office to Galway Airport. a 30 minute stop off in Athlone is a third of my journey time.

I can do said journey 2 to 3 times, return, on a tank of diesel that takes about 6 minutes to fill. When electric cars get within 300% of that time, let me know.

Sesshoumaru · 08-09-2011 09:45AM

MYOB wrote: »

It takes me 90 minutes to get from my office to Galway Airport. a 30 minute stop off in Athlone is a third of my journey time.

I can do said journey 2 to 3 times, return, on a tank of diesel that takes about 6 minutes to fill. When electric cars get within 300% of that time, let me know.

As it stands right now it costs me €20 to do 2100km. Let me know when petrol/diesel cars can do that

Sesshoumaru · 08-09-2011 10:01AM

-Chris- wrote: »

That still seems frustrating to me, you can get from Dublin to Galway in a touch over 2 hours now, so having to stop for 30 mins is actually a significant delay.

Realistically it'd actually cost you 45 mins+ with leaving & rejoining the motorway and the minutes lost either side of filling up.

So your over and back journey has now changed from a little over 4 hours to a little over 5.5 hours. Quite a difference.

Dublin to Galway is a journey that barely needs a bathroom break anymore, never mind a stop for a snack and a cuppa while your car recharges.

I'm really happy for those of you with fossil fuel cars that don't need to stop once on a Dublin to Galway journey. For me it's a minor point. The big issue for me is the saving I make by owning an EV. I've previously posted my figures for July, I just checked online now for August and here is a screenshot:

At the end of the day the range of the Leaf is primarily determined by the capacity of the battery, which currently stands at 24kwh. It's just a battery though, when a better one becomes available I'll be able to replace it. The US version of the BYD e6 is already packing a 60kwh battery pack. Until then I'll live with my €10 per 1050km car

-Chris- · 08-09-2011 12:23PM

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

As it stands right now it costs me €20 to do 2100km. Let me know when petrol/diesel cars can do that

I'm glad you're happy with your car, and I'm not trying to knock it, I'm just giving my take on it.

You pay €20 for 2,100KM, so you'd pay roughly €3.94 for the 414KM return journey from Dublin to Galway.

The biggest selling car at the moment is the Ford Focus. 95.6% of those are in band A. 80.6% are hatchback.
I don't know what the specific model is, but let's take the Ford Focus 5DR Zetec 1.6TDCi 115BHP. It costs €23,875 ex. works, so similar in pricing to a base-spec Leaf. It does 4.2l/100KM

For the same journey, the Focus will use 17.38 litres of diesel, costing €24.97 based on a diesel price of €1.436 per litre.

So, for this return journey from Dublin to Galway you're saved €21.03, but it's added an extra 90 mins to your journey.
I'm not sure what you're paid, but if you're on the average industrial wage, that 90 mins is worth €31.37.

Again, I'm glad you're happy with your car, and I'm not trying to knock it, but if I was choosing a company car for MYOB I'd choose the Focus over the Leaf. Horses for courses, I guess.

There are situations where the Leaf is definitely desirable, but driving distance isn't one of them.
That's why I think putting a Leaf on the Cannonball Run is a pointless stunt (ah-ha!! I'm not wandering wildly off-topic after all!! :P:D).

keithclancy · 08-09-2011 12:34PM

Your forgetting total cost of ownership.

I have a colleague that just took delivery of a Tesla Roadster and commutes 55km each way every day.

But hes worked out the total cost /km including the lifetime of the battery pack and the prepay option tesla have to get a discount on a future battery pack.

He worked out he's paying MORE than he did with his Audi A4 Diesel, but he gets to drive a Tesla

Myself I'd go for a Volvos V60 Diesel Hybrid, I can do my short runs on Electric and my long runs to work on Diesel.

A leaf for me would leave me needing a second car.

650Ginge · 08-09-2011 12:39PM

-Chris- wrote: »

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

As it stands right now it costs me €20 to do 2100km. Let me know when petrol/diesel cars can do that

I'm glad you're happy with your car, and I'm not trying to knock it, I'm just giving my take on it.

You pay €20 for 2,100KM, so you'd pay roughly €3.94 for the 414KM return journey from Dublin to Galway.

The biggest selling car at the moment is the Ford Focus. 95.6% of those are in band A. 80.6% are hatchback.
I don't know what the specific model is, but let's take the Ford Focus 5DR Zetec 1.6TDCi 115BHP. It costs €23,875 ex. works, so similar in pricing to a base-spec Leaf. It does 4.2l/100KM

For the same journey, the Focus will use 17.38 litres of diesel, costing €24.97 based on a diesel price of €1.436 per litre.

So, for this return journey from Dublin to Galway you're saved €21.03, but it's added an extra 90 mins to your journey.
I'm not sure what you're paid, but if you're on the average industrial wage, that 90 mins is worth €31.37.

Is there really any validity in comparing time spent on the road to how much u would earn if u were working. I know my employer would be mighty pissed if I decided to drive to Galway in work time. So I ain't earning any more on the road to Galway, simply spending the money I already earned. I will spend less in a leaf.

Factoring in the purchase price of a leaf means it is not cheap motoring. It is way more expensive than a regular comparable car such as the ford focus. But it is still a cool idea and functional I would love one but you cant ever justify it on price and for that reason no use to most of us unfortunately. But it is a big step forward in my opinion.

Sesshoumaru · 08-09-2011 12:44PM

-Chris- wrote: »

I'm glad you're happy with your car, and I'm not trying to knock it, I'm just giving my take on it.

You pay €20 for 2,100KM, so you'd pay roughly €3.94 for the 414KM return journey from Dublin to Galway.

The biggest selling car at the moment is the Ford Focus. 95.6% of those are in band A. 80.6% are hatchback.
I don't know what the specific model is, but let's take the Ford Focus 5DR Zetec 1.6TDCi 115BHP. It costs €23,875 ex. works, so similar in pricing to a base-spec Leaf. It does 4.2l/100KM

For the same journey, the Focus will use 17.38 litres of diesel, costing €24.97 based on a diesel price of €1.436 per litre.

So, for this return journey from Dublin to Galway you're saved €21.03, but it's added an extra 90 mins to your journey.
I'm not sure what you're paid, but if you're on the average industrial wage, that 90 mins is worth €31.37.

Again, I'm glad you're happy with your car, and I'm not trying to knock it, but if I was choosing a company car for MYOB I'd choose the Focus over the Leaf. Horses for courses, I guess.

There are situations where the Leaf is definitely desirable, but driving distance isn't one of them.
That's why I think putting a Leaf on the Cannonball Run is a pointless stunt (ah-ha!! I'm not wandering wildly off-topic after all!! :P:D).

I don't do long journeys all that often (like most people). People just like the comfort factor of knowing they can do those journeys at any point. But in reality most people (not all people) don't do long journeys that often.

To me it's like this, some guy wants a 2 seater sports car and fuel economy/space isn't important. Another guy wants a 7 seater and space/economy is important. The Leaf just ticks the right boxes for me and I'm delighted other people are happy with their cars. Other people have their lists of "when the car can do XYZ come back to me" etc I'm happy they have the choice on the market to get what they want. I got what I want as well, thanks!

L1011 · 08-09-2011 06:33PM

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

As it stands right now it costs me €20 to do 2100km. Let me know when petrol/diesel cars can do that

My employer values (at least when charging customers)my time at more than the fuel savings. Quite a lot more.

If in that 2100km I have to do 8 charges its "cost" the company 800 quid. 820 is vastly more than the 100 euro or so diesel costs (remember that corporates won't be paying VAT on the diesel).

Even assuming its done during time where there is no other work available for me to do (this has happened once in four and a half years, may I add) and when I'm on normal salary due to it being in working hours the actual cost in time lost is still more than the "savings". Add in the chance of putting the driver in to over hours and it starts to get painful - in real terms not even the notional costs.

An electric car would *always* cost my employer more than the fuel savings seeing as the price of electricity will go up in tandem with diesel due to us getting most of our energy from fossil.

Bandara · 08-09-2011 06:57PM

as an aside I'd be bored senseless having to sit on a garage forecourt for half an hour to charge my car on the way to somewhere like galway, and repeat it on the way back. Add in three young kids in the car etc and your looking at a bloody nightmare.

SV · 08-09-2011 08:19PM

Until these cars can be charged in an extremely short amount of time then I think it's a lost cause.

TestTransmission · 08-09-2011 08:31PM

Hammertime wrote: »

as an aside I'd be bored senseless having to sit on a garage forecourt for half an hour to charge my car on the way to somewhere like galway, and repeat it on the way back. Add in three young kids in the car etc and your looking at a bloody nightmare.

I'm guessing more garages will have to cater to this,possibly a chance for money to be made?

pburns · 08-09-2011 10:26PM

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

East to West? Dublin to Galway requires one 30 minute stop in Athlone. The Leaf can ingest 50 kilowatts of DC through its second larger DC port in the front.

You say that like it's a good thing:eek::o!

I (unexpectedly) had to do a similar trip recently with 5 people and a bicycle on board (Galway to Dublin, chasing around industrial estates in Sandyford for a meet-up and then down to Newbridge). Stopped off for some food on the go but with the weight, speed and distance we covered a Leaf woulda been a MAJOR pain in the hole. OK, so most journeys are less than 10 km or whatever....a bicycle, scooter, motorbike or even one of those covered BMW bikes Pat Kenny used to have - all would be preferable and cheaper (plus a proper car).

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

The Leaf just ticks the right boxes for me and I'm delighted other people are happy with their cars. Other people have their lists of "when the car can do XYZ come back to me" etc I'm happy they have the choice on the market to get what they want. I got what I want as well, thanks!

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

As it stands right now it costs me €20 to do 2100km. Let me know when petrol/diesel cars can do that

OK...you're happy with your choice and everyone else is happy with theirs but I can't help but feel a tinge of triumphant evangelicism here. No offence, I think you've said before you've owned a wide range of cars and bikes, probably more than me. But personally, a Leaf only works if you have a boring, predictable life where nothing unexpected happens and where you're totally anal about planning ahead (or if you have a 2nd car - but that kinda misses the point if the electric car is to stand on it's own merits).

johnos1984 · 08-09-2011 10:27PM

You know if you were being really environmentally responsible the best way to do the CannonBall run would be to get a lift in someone elses car....

Sesshoumaru · 08-09-2011 10:28PM

MYOB wrote: »

My employer values (at least when charging customers)my time at more than the fuel savings. Quite a lot more.

If in that 2100km I have to do 8 charges its "cost" the company 800 quid. 820 is vastly more than the 100 euro or so diesel costs (remember that corporates won't be paying VAT on the diesel).

Even assuming its done during time where there is no other work available for me to do (this has happened once in four and a half years, may I add) and when I'm on normal salary due to it being in working hours the actual cost in time lost is still more than the "savings". Add in the chance of putting the driver in to over hours and it starts to get painful - in real terms not even the notional costs.

An electric car would *always* cost my employer more than the fuel savings seeing as the price of electricity will go up in tandem with diesel due to us getting most of our energy from fossil.

I honestly don't know what angle you're taking here? My car starts charging itself at 00:10 while I'm asleep. When I'm taking the kids to Dublin Zoo or just going to the shops my employer isn't paying me either. I come out in the morning and just use the car. Then at night it charges itself after midnight. Next morning I go out and just use it. In 9500km of driving I've only had to use the DC chargers a handful of times and half of those times were cause they're free and I just want to check out a new DC charge point.

You may not be aware but our country has a target of 40% of electricity generation to be from renewables by 2020. We are currently at 14% last time I checked. So no electricity won't go up in tandem with diesel. Expect lots more carbon taxes on diesel and petrol as well.

Sesshoumaru · 08-09-2011 10:37PM

pburns wrote: »

You say that like it's a good thing:eek::o!

I (unexpectedly) had to do a similar trip recently with 5 people and a bicycle on board (Galway to Dublin, chasing around industrial estates in Sandyford for a meet-up and then down to Newbridge). Stopped off for some food on the go but with the weight, speed and distance we covered a Leaf woulda been a MAJOR pain in the hole. OK, so most journeys are less than 10 km or whatever....a bicycle, scooter, motorbike or even one of those covered BMW bikes Pat Kenny used to have - all would be preferable and cheaper (plus a proper car).

OK...you're happy with your choice and everyone else is happy with theirs but I can't help but feel a tinge of triumphant evangelicism here. No offence, I think you've said before you've owned a wide range of cars and bikes, probably more than me. But personally, a Leaf only works if you have a boring, predictable life where nothing unexpected happens and where you're totally anal about planning ahead (or if you have a 2nd car - but that kinda misses the point if the electric car is to stand on it's own merits).

I think it's ironic you talk about triumphant evangelicalism when a significant proportion of peoples reactions to a Leaf are to trumpet how far their ICE cars can travel on one fill and how quickly they can be refilled etc In fact your own post was like this.

This is the motoring forum right? I think my car is awesome! Is that any different to anyone else on motors? Can you honestly say your post doesn't smack of "I'm right and you're wrong" triumpihilism? or you think of me differently from the thousands of other people on motors because the car I like and think is awesome, happens to be an EV?

Shane732 · 08-09-2011 10:48PM

Sesshoumaru have you actually looked at the Leaf?

IMO it looks like total sh1t!

Over €30k for something that can't even do a run from Galway to Dublin, certainly wouldn't be my cup of tea.

You couldn't pay me to drive one of those.

Does the leaf have launch control like?!!

L1011 · 08-09-2011 11:21PM

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I honestly don't know what angle you're taking here? My car starts charging itself at 00:10 while I'm asleep. When I'm taking the kids to Dublin Zoo or just going to the shops my employer isn't paying me either. I come out in the morning and just use the car. Then at night it charges itself after midnight. Next morning I go out and just use it. In 9500km of driving I've only had to use the DC chargers a handful of times and half of those times were cause they're free and I just want to check out a new DC charge point.

My average working day, and the average working day of anyone with a company vehicle, involves trips of lengths that would require a 30 minute "fast charge". I would have thought it was *quite clear* this is what I was talking about seeing as I was referencing the example journey of Dublin to Galway.

If I was extremely lucky I might end up having enough range to get to a work site that had a fast charging point, but seeing as I supply the medical industry and not motorways services or city centre car parks, thats not very likely now is it? So I'd be stuck in Athlone for 30 mins on the way home (or Monasterevin, or wherever. Probably twice on the way to Cork).

9500km of driving is a busy month for me. While my driving is higher than most, *any* field engineer, sales rep, etc is going to do mileage that'd require a 30 minute, employer paid for and lost earning time, break probably 3 to 5 times a week.

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

You may not be aware but our country has a target of 40% of electricity generation to be from renewables by 2020. We are currently at 14% last time I checked. So no electricity won't go up in tandem with diesel. Expect lots more carbon taxes on diesel and petrol as well.

Oh, I'm aware. I'm also aware we haven't got a snowballs of meeting it.

unkel · 09-09-2011 12:17AM

Am I alone here thinking this discussion is completely pointless? If you drive for a living or have a long commute, even the most competent EV available now (and surely we all agree that is the Leaf) will not do. Not by far. Not for at least another decade of magic evolution of batteries (that's what the dreamers and total optimists say) and probably never

However if you live in an urban area and do most of your driving in that urban area, and don't mind long delays and range anxiety on the odd unplanned longer trip, a Leaf might be a real alternative (given a massive subsidy paid for by the already overstretched tax payers to relatively rich people who already could afford to buy brand new mid market cars) , as it has proven to be for the OP

Entering a Leaf on a fun long distance trip meant to be for fancy cars is just plain wrong though

waxon-waxoff · 09-09-2011 12:23AM

I dont have a problem with the Leaf in the Cannonball, its all about cars you dont see everyday after all.

Passed by Merrion Sq this evening to see whats in it this year. Two very nice 60's Mustangs and the usual 911's, 430's and Gallardos.

L1011 · 09-09-2011 12:29AM

unkel wrote: »

Am I alone here thinking this discussion is completely pointless? If you drive for a living or have a long commute, even the most competent EV available now (and surely we all agree that is the Leaf) will not do. Not by far. Not for at least another decade of magic evolution of batteries (that's what the dreamers and total optimists say) and probably never

Well, our EV-lover is trying to justify that they are in fact suitable for long distance driving...

kdevitt · 09-09-2011 12:36AM

unkel wrote: »

Entering a Leaf on a fun long distance trip meant to be for fancy cars is just plain wrong though

Totally agree, its also completely reckless for them to be spreading smug all over the country.

Cannonball Run in the Leaf

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