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9/11 Ten years on.....

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    stopped reading right there. lol'ing at the conspiracy nuts in this here thread, is The Waltzing Consumer the only sane one.

    typical response from a muppet conditioned to believe the sh1t they've been forcefed

    do a bit of research on the subject and then come back and we can discuss things like

    the dancing Isralelis
    Urban Moving Systems
    Israelis at the pentagon
    Mohamed Atta's Neighbours

    for starters

    mod:
    poster banned.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭leonidas83


    In some ways, I think an event like 9/11 was bound to happen given the resources and amount of people terrorist organisations like al queda had at their disposa. Also when you factor in how relaxed security was at airports it maybe shouldnt have been seen as such a surprise.

    I think for me the biggest surprise tho was the magnitude of 9/11, I remember reading an interview with Bin Laden saying they had never expected the towers to collapse and for it to be such a success.

    A terrorist attack from them was bound to happen imo involving planes because of the ease of access but I dont think anyone thought nearly 3000 would perish and in such a brutal way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    donvito99 wrote: »
    I was seven at the time... took me a few years to realise that it wasn't Afghanistan itself that masterminded the attacks, merely some mad folks residing there.

    Most of the hijackers were actually Saudis though, not Afghans.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Now, granted, today's young adults also know nothing about the happy simplicity of the Cold War environment,

    F*ck me, where to start with a statement like that. :rolleyes:

    The "happy simplicity of the Cold War"? I doubt the poor innocent kids in Vietnam who had chemical weapons dumped on them by the US saw it that way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    10 years... unbelievable.

    I remember te day it happened and meeting a friend in the pub after work. Was a small pub on the quays and it was packed. The TV was showing the footage of the planes and it was so quite. Everyone was just staring at the screen.

    I don't think anyone could actually believe what they were seeing.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Now, granted, today's young adults also know nothing about the happy simplicity of the Cold War environment,

    F*ck me, where to start with a statement like that. :rolleyes:

    The "happy simplicity of the Cold War"? I doubt the poor innocent kids in Vietnam who had chemical weapons dumped on them by the US saw it that way.

    I didn't say it was pleasant, but it was certainly simple. You knew who the two sides were, they wore uniforms, they had obvious, clearly delineated power blocks headed by NATO and the Warsaw Pact, complete with heavily fortified borders between them, and generally speaking, unless an active war was going on in your area (such as Vietnam that you mention) peoples' daily lives were not particularly affected. Any paranoia people had could be directed easily at the evil red commies or the imperialist capitalist pig dogs as appropriate. Today, danger lurks everywhere, the threat is not well definable, and is not under the effective control of one or two stable entities like the White House or the Kremlin who can be expected to act within reasonable certainties to various conditions.

    NTM


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,822 ✭✭✭iPlop


    Here's a boards thread from 9/11, 122 posts and an interesting read

    AH on 9/11


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Because of 9/11 I now get violently groped when going through US customs. So some good came out of it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,351 ✭✭✭Orando Broom


    Saila wrote: »
    and so were hijackings, the whole flying them into buildings was new though

    Funny thing is, post 9/11 there have been fück all hijackings of airliners.

    Suppose that's been a change.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    The 9/11 attacks which killed 3000 people led to another 7500 nato troops being killed following government policies to combat it.

    So in all over 10,000 and counting fighting the "War on Terror". What a disaster.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 858 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    Gnobe wrote: »
    The 9/11 attacks which killed 3000 people led to another 7500 nato troops being killed following government policies to combat it.

    So in all over 10,000 and counting fighting the "War on Terror". What a disaster.

    *cough*

    Let's not forget well over a million Iraqi's, Afghani's, Pakistani's...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    That's not entirely accurate. Maddox was attacked on 02AUG64, and had the battle damage to prove it. Maddox was not attacked on 04AUG64, though the crew at the time were convinced that they were.

    Photo of the 02AUG battle
    http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g700000/g711523.jpg

    NTM
    Johnson and his military advirses contrived the second incident on 04Aug64 in such a way to the American public , that gave him and the military advisers the go ahead it was looking for to send the first of many large troop movements into Vietnam .

    The difference between Johnson and Kennedy as president was although Kennedy sent the military advisers into Vietnam and hinted that more troops may be sent there , he wasn't as easly pursuaded by the military into making quick hasty decisions which he showed in the Bay of Pigs fiasco ( which may /may not have being a wekness on his part then ) and the Cuban miissle crisis .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    ed2hands wrote: »
    *cough*

    Let's not forget well over a million Iraqi's, Afghani's, Pakistani's...

    Pfft, who care about them? They're not white or European, they don't count.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    I'm not sure if AH is the right place for this so if not please move!

    As we approach the tenth anniversary of the September the 11th attacks I can't help thinking that world has changed completely since then. I think that things would be very different in many ways if those planes had never hit the WTC.
    not really they would have found a new bogey man
    remember other bombings of embassies had already occured. And what about Timmathy McVey (sp) , Americans kill more of each other than anyone else does.
    Air Travel for one will never be the same,
    True air travel is so much better for us Irish travelling to the UK. Even though we were in a common travel area. There was no increased security on cross channel flights, if anything it became more relaxed.
    the date September 11th will always now be associated with death, terror, evil etc.
    Chile will never forget the events of 1973 when a US sponsored coup installed a dictatorship.

    hundreds of thousands have died in the middle east in the last 10 years

    The second Congo war has been overshadowed even though more people have died than in Vietnam or Korea


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Latchy wrote: »
    How a handful of people manged to breech a countrys security and in a few hrs , destroy thousends of lives as well as the symbol of power and strength.We knew then that the United States was not some sort of impregnable fortress .
    During World War Two when the atomic bomb was being developed they didn't know if it could fit in a plane. So Plan B was to sail the bomb into a harbour in a ship.

    The only difference is that if a rogue state tried to do the same today they'd use a container. Missile defense is just a smoke screen.

    Terrorists don't need to smuggle weapons into the US when they can buy them there. Fuel / Ammonium nitrate bombs could be made as big as you like. You could easily store a couple of thousand tonnes in a warehouse. You don't even need nukes.


    Oh yeah, most of those people were Saudai's and Bin Laden & Co. were trained by the CIA when the neo-cons were supporting them during the Soviet presence in Afghanistan. It's not the first time training "freedom fighters" has backfired on the US.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭k.p.h


    Interesting Article from Robert Fisk the weekend
    Robert Fisk: For 10 years, we've lied to ourselves to avoid asking the one real question


    I'm talking about the volumes, the libraries – nay, the very halls of literature – which the international crimes against humanity of 11 September 2001 have spawned. Many are spavined with pseudo-patriotism and self-regard, others rotten with the hopeless mythology of CIA/Mossad culprits, a few (from the Muslim world, alas) even referring to the killers as "boys", almost all avoiding the one thing which any cop looks for after a street crime: the motive.

    Why so, I ask myself, after 10 years of war, hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths, lies and hypocrisy and betrayal and sadistic torture by the Americans – our MI5 chaps just heard, understood, maybe looked, of course no touchy-touchy nonsense – and the Taliban? Have we managed to silence ourselves as well as the world with our own fears? Are we still not able to say those three sentences: The 19 murderers of 9/11 claimed they were Muslims. They came from a place called the Middle East. Is there a problem out there?


    American publishers first went to war in 2001 with massive photo-memorial volumes. Their titles spoke for themselves: Above Hallowed Ground, So Others Might Live, Strong of Heart, What We Saw, The Final Frontier, A Fury for God, The Shadow of Swords... Seeing this stuff piled on newsstands across America, who could doubt that the US was going to go to war? And long before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, another pile of tomes arrived to justify the war after the war. Most prominent among them was ex-CIA spook Kenneth Pollack's The Threatening Storm – and didn't we all remember Churchill's The Gathering Storm? – which, needless to say, compared the forthcoming battle against Saddam with the crisis faced by Britain and France in 1938.

    There were two themes to this work by Pollack – "one of the world's leading experts on Iraq," the blurb told readers, among whom was Fareed Zakaria ("one of the most important books on American foreign policy in years," he drivelled) – the first of which was a detailed account of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction; none of which, as we know, actually existed. The second theme was the opportunity to sever the "linkage" between "the Iraq issue and the Arab-Israeli conflict".

    The Palestinians, deprived of the support of powerful Iraq, went the narrative, would be further weakened in their struggle against Israeli occupation. Pollack referred to the Palestinians' "vicious terrorist campaign" – but without any criticism of Israel. He wrote of "weekly terrorist attacks followed by Israeli responses (sic)", the standard Israeli version of events. America's bias towards Israel was no more than an Arab "belief". Well, at least the egregious Pollack had worked out, in however slovenly a fashion, that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict had something to do with 9/11, even if Saddam had not.

    In the years since, of course, we've been deluged with a rich literature of post-9/11 trauma, from the eloquent The Looming Tower of Lawrence Wright to the Scholars for 9/11 Truth, whose supporters have told us that the plane wreckage outside the Pentagon was dropped by a C-130, that the jets that hit the World Trade Centre were remotely guided, that United 93 was shot down by a US missile, etc. Given the secretive, obtuse and sometimes dishonest account presented by the White House – not to mention the initial hoodwinking of the official 9/11 commission staff – I am not surprised that millions of Americans believe some of this, let alone the biggest government lie: that Saddam was behind 9/11. Leon Panetta, the CIA's newly appointed autocrat, repeated this same lie in Baghdad only this year.

    There have been movies, too. Flight 93 re-imagined what may (or may not) have happened aboard the plane which fell into a Pennsylvania wood. Another told a highly romanticised story, in which the New York authorities oddly managed to prevent almost all filming on the actual streets of the city. And now we're being deluged with TV specials, all of which have accepted the lie that 9/11 did actually change the world – it was the Bush/Blair repetition of this dangerous notion that allowed their thugs to indulge in murderous invasions and torture – without for a moment asking why the press and television went along with the idea. So far, not one of these programmes has mentioned the word "Israel" – and Brian Lapping's Thursday night ITV offering mentioned "Iraq" once, without explaining the degree to which 11 September 2001 provided the excuse for this 2003 war crime. How many died on 9/11? Almost 3,000. How many died in the Iraq war? Who cares?

    Publication of the official 9/11 report – in 2004, but read the new edition of 2011 – is indeed worth study, if only for the realities it does present, although its opening sentences read more like those of a novel than of a government inquiry. "Tuesday ... dawned temperate and nearly cloudless in the eastern United States... For those heading to an airport, weather conditions could not have been better for a safe and pleasant journey. Among the travellers were Mohamed Atta..." Were these guys, I ask myself, interns at Time magazine?

    But I'm drawn to Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan whose The Eleventh Day confronts what the West refused to face in the years that followed 9/11. "All the evidence ... indicates that Palestine was the factor that united the conspirators – at every level," they write. One of the organisers of the attack believed it would make Americans concentrate on "the atrocities that America is committing by supporting Israel". Palestine, the authors state, "was certainly the principal political grievance ... driving the young Arabs (who had lived) in Hamburg".

    The motivation for the attacks was "ducked" even by the official 9/11 report, say the authors. The commissioners had disagreed on this "issue" – cliché code word for "problem" – and its two most senior officials, Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton, were later to explain: "This was sensitive ground ...Commissioners who argued that al-Qa'ida was motivated by a religious ideology – and not by opposition to American policies – rejected mentioning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict... In their view, listing US support for Israel as a root cause of al-Qa'ida's opposition to the United States indicated that the United States should reassess that policy." And there you have it.

    So what happened? The commissioners, Summers and Swan state, "settled on vague language that circumvented the issue of motive". There's a hint in the official report – but only in a footnote which, of course, few read. In other words, we still haven't told the truth about the crime which – we are supposed to believe – "changed the world for ever". Mind you, after watching Obama on his knees before Netanyahu last May, I'm really not surprised.

    When the Israeli Prime Minister gets even the US Congress to grovel to him, the American people are not going to be told the answer to the most important and "sensitive" question of 9/11: why?



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    There was two jumpers from one of the towers who both held hands while falling which is just unbelievable .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,190 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    During World War Two when the atomic bomb was being developed they didn't know if it could fit in a plane. So Plan B was to sail the bomb into a harbour in a ship.

    The only difference is that if a rogue state tried to do the same today they'd use a container. Missile defense is just a smoke screen.

    Terrorists don't need to smuggle weapons into the US when they can buy them there. Fuel / Ammonium nitrate bombs could be made as big as you like. You could easily store a couple of thousand tonnes in a warehouse. You don't even need nukes.


    Oh yeah, most of those people were Saudai's and Bin Laden & Co. were trained by the CIA when the neo-cons were supporting them during the Soviet presence in Afghanistan. It's not the first time training "freedom fighters" has backfired on the US.
    Which = the mother of all fcuk ups by the CIA and FBI
    KeithAFC wrote: »
    There was two jumpers from one of the towers who both held hands while falling which is just unbelievable
    I use to think their clothing just got tangled up as they jumped together ...still not sure .


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Latchy wrote: »
    Johnson and his military advirses contrived the second incident on 04Aug64 in such a way to the American public , that gave him and the military advisers the go ahead it was looking for to send the first of many large troop movements into Vietnam .

    Anything I've read indicates that the crew of Maddox were of the firm belief that they were in a fight. They may have been wrong, but that doesn't mean that the reports sent to DC were not honest.

    NTM


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