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Ticket touting , online or otherwise , what is the legal situation ??

  • 31-08-2011 05:57PM
    #1
    anbrutog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 386 ✭✭


    Hi legal folks...

    Would like your take on ticket touting. Essentially , what is the exact law on ticket touting?? Is it just the case that the guards merely move touts on but really theres nothing they can do unless they catch them in the act and can prove that the ticket is being sold at above cost ??

    I'm thinking there must be no exact law if a site like this can operate with supposed impunity ??

    http://www.needaticket.ie/sellyours.php


    AB


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    anbrutog wrote: »
    Hi legal folks...

    Would like your take on ticket touting. Essentially , what is the exact law on ticket touting?? Is it just the case that the guards merely move touts on but really theres nothing they can do unless they catch them in the act and can prove that the ticket is being sold at above cost ??

    I'm thinking there must be no exact law if a site like this can operate with supposed impunity ??

    http://www.needaticket.ie/sellyours.php


    AB


    Ticket touts provide a uselful service. If they didn't, they wouldn't exist.


  • #3
    Jev/N
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    Beside being against the T&C's (AFAIK), couldn't they be done for casual trading without a licence?

    A tout in the colloquial sense of the word does not provide a useful service because they sell above cost


  • #4
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    Jev/N wrote: »
    Beside being against the T&C's (AFAIK), couldn't they be done for casual trading without a licence?

    A tout in the colloquial sense of the word does not provide a useful service because they sell above cost


    They sell at a price people are willing to pay.


  • #5
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    Ticket touts provide a uselful service. If they didn't, they wouldn't exist.

    So do hitmen.


  • #6
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    So do hitmen.

    In that case so does everybody else who provides a job or service.


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  • #7
    Jev/N
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭Jev/N


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    They sell at a price people are willing to pay.

    No, they're taking advantage of a finite supply and exploiting it.


  • #8
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    In that case so does everybody else who provides a job or service.

    Just because there is demand doesn not make it right or legal.


  • #9
    TouchingVirus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭TouchingVirus


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    In that case so does everybody else who provides a job or service.

    What tickets have you got for sale Finnbar? :pac:


  • #10
    stimpson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,707 ✭✭✭stimpson


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    Just because there is demand doesn not make it right or legal.

    Yet if there is no law against it it...

    I ended up with too many tickets for U2 in Slane in 2001 so I stuck them up on ebay. I got 800 quid for the pair. Does that make me a tout?


  • #11
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    Just because there is demand doesn not make it right or legal.


    Is ticket touting illegal? I not so sure if it is. Anyways if it is not, touters are providing a service. They are selling tickets at a price someone is willing to pay.

    If you put something on ebay that you genuinely thought was only worth at max €100 euros and the final bid was €500, would you withdraw it from sale or except the bid and be glad of the extra profit you've made?

    I know what I would do.


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  • #12
    RangeR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,258 ✭✭✭RangeR


    stimpson wrote: »
    Yet if there is no law against it it...

    I ended up with too many tickets for U2 in Slane in 2001 so I stuck them up on ebay. I got 800 quid for the pair. Does that make me a tout?

    In my eyes, yes.


  • #13
    stimpson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,707 ✭✭✭stimpson


    RangeR wrote: »
    In my eyes, yes.

    So what should I have done with them?


  • #14
    RangeR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,258 ✭✭✭RangeR


    stimpson wrote: »
    So what should I have done with them?

    Sold them close to face value. Maybe +5% to allow for service charges from Ticketmaster etc

    However, you put them on ebay for auction. Selling to the highest bidder. Taking full advantage of a scarce resource.


  • #15
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    TouchingVirus wrote: »
    What tickets have you got for sale Finnbar? :pac:


    No, but this guy is looking for some EP tickets. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056375163
    RangeR wrote: »
    Sold them close to face value. Maybe +5% to allow for service charges from Ticketmaster etc

    However, you put them on ebay for auction. Selling to the highest bidder. Taking full advantage of a scarce resource.



    Why should he? They're his property and he should try and get the best price for them.

    If we go with your logic, than ebay itself should be closed down.


  • #16
    stimpson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,707 ✭✭✭stimpson


    RangeR wrote: »
    Sold them close to face value. Maybe +5% to allow for service charges from Ticketmaster etc

    To who? First come first served? Is that what you would have done?
    However, you put them on ebay for auction. Selling to the highest bidder. Taking full advantage of a scarce resource.

    Yep. It's called capitalism. Strictly speaking, it's called a free market. If I bought an ounce of gold at $1000 yet the spot price of gold is now $1800, have I the right to sell it at market rate?

    Why should tickets be any different?


  • #17
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    Jev/N wrote: »
    No, they're taking advantage of a finite supply and exploiting it.

    No different to airlines and hotels who up their prices closer to the date.
    If they are allowed to do it then touts should be allowed.


  • #18
    RangeR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,258 ✭✭✭RangeR


    stimpson wrote: »
    To who? First come first served? Is that what you would have done?

    Yep. It's called capitalism. Strictly speaking, it's called a free market. If I bought an ounce of gold at $1000 yet the spot price of gold is now $1800, have I the right to sell it at market rate?

    Why should tickets be any different?


    The original question was
    stimpson wrote: »
    I got 800 quid for the pair. Does that make me a tout?

    To which I answered "Yes".

    You are what you are. Reasonings for same are irrelevant.


  • #19
    stimpson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,707 ✭✭✭stimpson


    RangeR wrote: »
    You are what you are. Reasonings for same are irrelevant.

    That is just your opinion. I asked you to back it up.

    What would you do in the same situation? If you sold them at face value then you would be a fool.

    What if it wasn't a ticket, but an ounce of gold. Is it any different?


  • #20
    RangeR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,258 ✭✭✭RangeR


    stimpson wrote: »
    That is just your opinion. I asked you to back it up.

    What would you do in the same situation? If you sold them at face value then you would be a fool.

    What if it wasn't a ticket, but an ounce of gold. Is it any different?

    Last post on this, we are derailing this thread. An opinion was asked for and I gave it. I'm not going to back it up with anything.


  • #21
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    I would consider a tout a person who buys for the purpose of resale only.


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  • #22
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    I would consider a tout a person who buys for the purpose of resale only.

    So all those people who bought property with the intention of selling at a later date and making a profit are touts?


  • #23
    stimpson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,707 ✭✭✭stimpson


    RangeR wrote: »
    Last post on this, we are derailing this thread. An opinion was asked for and I gave it. I'm not going to back it up with anything.

    You're not even going to try? I guess you can't defend it.

    What I did was neither illegal nor immoral. No more so than selling a collectable record or a piece of art for profit.


  • #24
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    So all those people who bought property with the intention of selling at a later date and making a profit are touts?

    I understood we were talkin about tickets here. The clue was the title of the thread "Ticket touting".


  • #25
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    I understood we were talkin about tickets here. The clue was the title of the thread "Ticket touting".

    Yes we are talking about ticket touting which is just another way of making a profit ( or sometimes a loss).

    If you are going to crib about touts, than anyone else providing a product or service, who wants to make a profit, will also have to come under your criticism.


  • #26
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    Yes we are talking about ticket touting which is just another way of making a profit ( or sometimes a loss).

    If you are going to crib about touts, than anyone else providing a product or service, who wants to make a profit, will also have to come under your criticism.

    Why? Ticket touts don't provide a service at all. The service is already there. They interfere with it.


  • #27
    stimpson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,707 ✭✭✭stimpson


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    I understood we were talkin about tickets here.

    What is so special about tickets that they need to be protected from the laws of supply and demand?


  • #28
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    Why? Ticket touts don't provide a service at all. The service is already there. They interfere with it.

    What if you want tickets but you got in too late to buy, or you couldn't get the time off or you weren't willing to queue for hours upon hours to buy the tickets?

    Surely you can see how touts can have a function?


  • #29
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    What if you want tickets but you got in too late to buy, or you couldn't get the time off or you weren't willing to queue for hours upon hours to buy the tickets?

    Surely you can see how touts can have a function?

    Most tickets can be bought online. If the tout has the ticket he is most likely the reason you couldn't buy it because he has interfered with the service provided by the supplier.


  • #30
    stimpson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,707 ✭✭✭stimpson


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    Most tickets can be bought online. If the tout has the ticket he is most likely the reason you couldn't buy it because he has interfered with the service provided by the supplier.

    Assuming they aren't stolen or forged, he has bought them through the normal channels, or second-hand from someone who bought them and cant attend. How is that interfering with the service?


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  • #31
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    stimpson wrote: »
    Assuming they aren't stolen or forged, he has bought them through the normal channels, or second-hand from someone who bought them and cant attend. How is that interfering with the service?

    He has interfered with the supply. He cannot buy them through legitimate channels for resale as afaik the terms and conditions on most tickets do not allow for this.


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