What's with this Ogle guy?

Solnskaya · 31-08-2011 09:28PM

ESB workers= pampered, low hours, little real work, it's all subbed out, overequipped to the point of total and utter wastefulness, purchasing is run along the lines of the health boards, ie expensive stuff bought expensively. Management do NOTHING. Workers do little more. Any heavy work is contracted out to private companies OR their own staff-yup, you can be both an employee and a contract worker!!! When working as a worker, they do feck all, then they take on a contract at superb rates, and work their holes off so they make a fortune. Pay is beyond generous. How do I know? I used to train them on a specific skill, and visited pretty much every depot in Ireland at one stage or another. So well unionised, nobody can mess with them. Welcome to semi-state Ireland. Nice guys as a rule though.:) Bit fond of buying expensive vehicles that are then discovered to be unsuitable, so no bother, park em and go buy more. As you do.

Fulton Crown · 31-08-2011 09:33PM

Dionysus wrote: »

Lads, this is not evidence. Not even in a room full of supergrasses and diplock court judges in Belfast in 1980 would this constitute evidence. What evidence do you have from Ogle that he will - and I quote - "shut down the country if any attempt is made to tackle this. Indeed, he's likely to threaten to shut down the country if we even attempt to stop pay rises there."?

Simple question - surely, I can have a simple, factually-based answer?

Seems to me that is similiar to asking "If I walk into a tigers cage with a lump of raw meat tied to my back ..what evidence do I have that this Tiger will attck me " ?

Classic obfuscating tactic poster........

Sonnenblumen · 31-08-2011 09:33PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

:eek:

Jaysus ,can't believe this.

The ESB, who are screwing us to the fcuking wall, are paying this lad's wages.

The same guy who tried to shut down CIE and failed miserably.

Why are the ESB paying the wages of a Union official.?

Surely the fcuk the don't have to go that far to guarantee industrial peace.

Total disgrace.

Off his train and now enjoying a power trip

Dionysus · 31-08-2011 09:37PM

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Seems to me that is similiar to asking "If I walk into a tigers cage with a lump of raw meat tied to my back ..what evidence do I have that this Tiger will attck me " ?

I'm still waiting on that evidence....

bassey · 31-08-2011 09:38PM

tricky D wrote: »

For consistency. Afterall, if they pay €75k before perks for just reading meters.....

And no I'm not joking on that figure for that job.

Not joking, just incredibly wrong.

Ally Dick · 31-08-2011 09:40PM

Ogle was is charge of the railway unions years ago. He was responsible for them holding the country to ransom. To this day, darts don't turn up if the driver feels like a lie-on in bed instead !

ejmaztec · 31-08-2011 09:45PM

Dionysus wrote: »

I'm still waiting on that evidence....

Surely you don't expect evidence on the Lynch-Mob AH Forum?

:pac:

jack presley · 31-08-2011 09:49PM

Dionysus wrote: »

I'm still waiting on that evidence....

Eh, someone mentioned a leopard not changing his spots. That'd be enough to convict anyone in a kangaroo court. What more evidence do you need?

Nodin · 31-08-2011 09:50PM

Dionysus wrote: »

Lads, this is not evidence. Not even in a room full of supergrasses and diplock court judges in Belfast in 1980 would this constitute evidence. What evidence do you have from Ogle that he will - and I quote - "shut down the country if any attempt is made to tackle this. Indeed, he's likely to threaten to shut down the country if we even attempt to stop pay rises there."?

Simple question - surely, I can have a simple, factually-based answer?

I'd suspect that this is an attempt at introducing a left wing slagging/public service bashing thread by Flutt.

Dionysus · 31-08-2011 09:50PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

Surely you don't expect evidence on the Lynch-Mob AH Forum?

:pac:

hehe. We can but hope. Ogle is my least favourite of union leaders - actually I don't have a favourite, just degrees of less favoured - but it's not like any of his opponents here are noted for, say, attacking rightwing capitalist practices such as expecting the rest of society to bail them out when they mess up. No, for the people who oppose Ogle it's still a case of "socialise capitalist losses; privatise capitalist gains", and blame the unions and "socialism" for all the problems. Plus ça change ...

FlutterinBantam · 31-08-2011 09:55PM

Dionysus wrote: »

Lads, this is not evidence. Not even in a room full of supergrasses and diplock court judges in Belfast in 1980 would this constitute evidence. What evidence do you have from Ogle that he will - and I quote - "shut down the country if any attempt is made to tackle this. Indeed, he's likely to threaten to shut down the country if we even attempt to stop pay rises there."?

Simple question - surely, I can have a simple, factually-based answer?

Stop trying to derail the thread man.

Answer me this, why are you and I ESB subscribers paying this lad's salary when he works for a Union.

Or have I got that wrong.

Monty Burnz · 31-08-2011 10:00PM

Dionysus wrote: »

Simple question - surely, I can have a simple, factually-based answer?

I've supplied evidence based on the previous record of both the ESB unions and Brendan Ogle. I'm not sure what exactly you are looking for? A signed confession?

Perhaps you can cite evidence that we can reasonably be expected to supply. Or better yet, you can refute the evidence I've provided with evidence that he would not try to shut down power supply if there's an attempt to bring ESB salaries into line with norms.

General General · 31-08-2011 10:00PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Answer me this, why are you and I ESB subscribers paying this lad's salary when he works for a Union.

Or have I got that wrong.

Yes. Only a fool pays for their electricity... you can download it for free on bittorrent.

Monty Burnz · 31-08-2011 10:03PM

Dionysus wrote: »

it's not like any of his opponents here are noted for, say, attacking rightwing capitalist practices such as expecting the rest of society to bail them out when they mess up.

Uh...what? I'm not sure about others here but I've been pretty vocal about the outrageous actions of Fianna Failure WRT the banks. I've stated repeatedly that they should have been allowed to fail.

Dionysus wrote: »

No, for the people who oppose Ogle it's still a case of "socialise capitalist losses; privatise capitalist gains", and blame the unions and "socialism" for all the problems. Plus ça change ...

Can you provide evidence of any posters here supporting the socialising of losses? Or is evidence only required of others?

Sergeant · 31-08-2011 10:04PM

Nodin wrote: »

I'd suspect that this is an attempt at introducing a left wing slagging/public service bashing thread by Flutt.

What is left wing about an organisation that pays 75k on average per employee before pension contributions? Are these some of the people the ULA and SF want to tax at a higher rate because they are rich?

FlutterinBantam · 31-08-2011 10:06PM

Sergeant wrote: »

I'm an electrical engineer. I worked there on a work experience release from college. I also have a number of friends who work there, being fellow electrical engineers.

The company is top heavy in terms of management. There are guys who are getting paid too much because of their length of service, and who have no modern skills to offer. Inefficiencies exist. As they do in many companies, public and private.

Overall, the company is well ran. Their International Consultancy is seen as world class, their safety record is impeccable, and despite what you read here, they are investing heavily in renewable energy and next generation metering. And they have no control over the rising cost of fossil fuels.

Bit of context sometimes.

Blah blah blah... Context me bollix..Like everything else HSE, Bord naMona, Civil Service, Banks, County Councils, Teachers,etc etc. they are all good at their job, they just cost too fcuking much.

Paparazzo · 31-08-2011 10:10PM

Solnskaya wrote: »

ESB workers= pampered, low hours, little real work, it's all subbed out, overequipped to the point of total and utter wastefulness, purchasing is run along the lines of the health boards, ie expensive stuff bought expensively. Management do NOTHING. Workers do little more. Any heavy work is contracted out to private companies OR their own staff-yup, you can be both an employee and a contract worker!!! When working as a worker, they do feck all, then they take on a contract at superb rates, and work their holes off so they make a fortune. Pay is beyond generous. How do I know? I used to train them on a specific skill, and visited pretty much every depot in Ireland at one stage or another. So well unionised, nobody can mess with them. Welcome to semi-state Ireland. Nice guys as a rule though.:) Bit fond of buying expensive vehicles that are then discovered to be unsuitable, so no bother, park em and go buy more. As you do.

Amazing how wasteful they were, but could still provide the cheapest electricity in europe before the regulator came in and increased prices to encourage competition. Cheaper than the UK with about 7 times the amount of network per customer.
Blame deregulation for the high prices. When ESB had a monopoly we were better off.

Dionysus · 31-08-2011 10:12PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Stop trying to derail the thread man

hehe. Comedy. Well played, Flutt.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I've supplied evidence based on the previous record of both the ESB unions and Brendan Ogle. I'm not sure what exactly you are looking for? A signed confession?

I'm looking for evidence to support this:

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The problem is that he knows they are paid too much, and yet will shut down the country if any attempt is made to tackle this..

You stated that, so the least you can do is provide evidence where Ogle has stated or implied that he will do such a thing. What started as a simple request has turned silly by your refusal to support your claim with evidence from Ogle's stated intentions in this regard. If you have Ogle claiming all of this, please produce it and you've won this discussion. Simple!

Sergeant · 31-08-2011 10:13PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Blah blah blah... Context me bollix..Like everything else HSE, Bord naMona, Civil Service, Banks, County Councils, Teachers,etc etc. they are all good at their job, they just cost too fcuking much.

Any idea what their wage costs are in relation to gross revenue? Any comparison on this rate compared to those working in a comparable company in the private sector (say oil and gas, or other industries that have a high proportion of engineers)? Or do you always deal in empty rhetoric and palaver?

I'm far from a pinko (quite the opposite), but your special breed of empty bluster does you, or those who might agree with your general argument no favours.

Fulton Crown · 31-08-2011 10:16PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

Amazing how wasteful they were, but could still provide the cheapest electricity in europe before the regulator came in and increased prices to encourage competition. Cheaper than the UK with about 7 times the amount of network per customer.
Blame deregulation for the high prices. When ESB had a monopoly we were better off.

Maybe theres a regulator in other countries as well.

Can you supply evidence that regulation is the cause of high prices. ?

Have you evidence that we had the cheapest lecky in Europe ?

Back on topic..............how is a trade union official being paid by ESB....why ?

Who signed off on that deal......?

Dionysus · 31-08-2011 10:16PM

Sergeant wrote: »

Any idea what their wage costs are in relation to gross revenue? Any comparison on this rate compared to those working in a comparable company in the private sector (say oil and gas, or other industries that have a high proportion of engineers)? Or do you always deal in empty rhetoric and palaver?

That was a very civilised response to Flutter's decidedly uncivilised "blah blah blah" response to you. Fair play.

Monty Burnz · 31-08-2011 10:23PM

Dionysus wrote: »

If you have Ogle claiming all of this, please produce it and you've won this discussion. Simple!

So all I need to do is wait for Ogle to publicly state this for some reason, in a public relations disaster for the unions and in a context where nobody is threatening the ESB unions with pay cuts, and you will concede that it is possible? :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, you decline to provide evidence that you claim exists on this very board to back up your claims about Ogle's critics here.

Right.

WoollyRedHat · 31-08-2011 10:24PM

The CIE are basterds!

Ogle for president.

Zen65 · 31-08-2011 10:24PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Another great argument for privatisation and competition, plus an interconnector to the UK or European power grids.

There's already privatisation in the energy sector. Over 50% of electricity in Ireland is produced privately. Haven't you noticed how cheap electricity has become as a result??

(Removes tongue from cheek)

Z

Nodin · 31-08-2011 10:25PM

Sergeant wrote: »

What is left wing about an organisation that pays 75k on average per employee before pension contributions? Are these some of the people the ULA and SF want to tax at a higher rate because they are rich?

Did I refer to the ESB? No, I referred to the possible intentions behind the thread. I stated that it was in reality and in part an attempt to start a PS bashing thread, and behold, what do we have in post 47?

Flutter wrote:

Like everything else HSE, Bord naMona, Civil Service, Banks, County Councils, Teachers,etc etc. they are all good at their job, they just cost too fcuking much

Monty Burnz · 31-08-2011 10:31PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

Amazing how wasteful they were, but could still provide the cheapest electricity in europe before the regulator came in and increased prices to encourage competition. Cheaper than the UK with about 7 times the amount of network per customer.
Blame deregulation for the high prices. When ESB had a monopoly we were better off.

They were able to provide cheap electricity in the 80's and 90's because they sweated their assets. This necessitated a multi-billion euro investment in network renewal in the 2000s.

The idea of attracting competition within Ireland was misconceived - the market isn't big enough. An interconnector with the UK and continental Europe would free us of reliance on the ESB and would allow them to sell power into Europe and for us to buy power from there if it is cheaper. Monopolies are never good for consumers.

Gophur · 31-08-2011 10:32PM

Sergeant wrote: »

Any idea what their wage costs are in relation to gross revenue? Any comparison on this rate compared to those working in a comparable company in the private sector (say oil and gas, or other industries that have a high proportion of engineers)? Or do you always deal in empty rhetoric and palaver?

I'm far from a pinko (quite the opposite), but your special breed of empty bluster does you, or those who might agree with your general argument no favours.

The staff of the ESB are over-paid and very much privileged. They have no pressures or worries about losing their jobs. Their employer, with State collusion/agreement etc, sell a product that is ludicrously over-priced and is symptomatic of the malaise this Country finds itself in.

As for Brendan Ogle? What a man! He's no more a Socialist than Bertie Ahern. His simple objective is to fleece his employer for as much as he can for his fellow "workers". Apparently it conforms to his "Socialist" way of thinking!

As for the ESB "investment" in alternative energies? Care to tell us the amount they are paying to the producers of wind power? When you do, we'll all see, again, it's the punter that is being fleeced, as the ESB pay approx 500% of what they should be paying, but, what the hell, it will be passed on to the consumer.

Monty Burnz · 31-08-2011 10:33PM

Zen65 wrote: »

There's already privatisation in the energy sector. Over 50% of electricity in Ireland is produced privately.

There's a lengthy discussion of the privatisation fiasco elsewhere on boards that I contributed to - you might find more information there if you are interested.

jack presley · 31-08-2011 10:35PM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

An interconnector with the UK and continental Europe would free us of reliance on the ESB.

And how exactly would the power get to your houses? You kind of need all those ESB poles and wires!

Solnskaya · 31-08-2011 10:39PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

Amazing how wasteful they were, but could still provide the cheapest electricity in europe before the regulator came in and increased prices to encourage competition. Cheaper than the UK with about 7 times the amount of network per customer.
Blame deregulation for the high prices. When ESB had a monopoly we were better off.

away and sh1te. Bord na mona bunging in freesubsidised fuel , generating electricity a licence to print money in any case, massive government subvention, totally warped market and cost base. You have no clue what you are spouting. Cheapest bill, yeah maybe, cheapest electricity:pac::pac: If you regard it as cheap, it should have been 100% cheaper, with the waste removed.

What's with this Ogle guy?

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