A question for the single ladies

Malari · 30-08-2011 07:03PM

bronte wrote: »

Isn't it widely agreed that differing on the kids thing is a dealbreaker?

Well, it strikes me that a parent would not really want to go out with someone who wasn't fond of kids or didnt want their own! Likewise, is someone who wants kids being shallow and demented if they chose not to date someone who never wants children?

seenitall · 30-08-2011 07:36PM

Not wanting to get into a relationship with a parent is perfectly understandable to me, and I am pretty sure it would also have been one of my "deal-breakers" in the past. Before I became a single mother, that is.

Now I find it frustrating in the men I meet, of course, the more so as the preference which excludes me in their eyes remains unspoken in the majority. Which I also understand; why would anyone utter something like "Eh, you're lovely, really, but you have a kid, so, you know, I'll pass..." unless they are a glutton for looking to all the world like a callous egocentric? It's true, I wouldn't fancy it either. But it means that I have had to slowly come to my own conclusions as to why my dating pool has been ever-shrinking in the past few years...

Anyway, that's the way the cookie crumbles, I really can't pin that one on anyone at all at the end of the day. It's just life. I also got a bright big-eyed little rascal

in that deal, so it's good. It has to be.

woodoo · 30-08-2011 11:57PM

Men and women if your well into your 30's and single. Drop the fairy tail ideas and enter the world of realism. Both sexes have faults and many will have baggage. Maybe its time to reassess the very high standards.

Kiera · 31-08-2011 01:19AM

woodoo wrote: »

Men and women if your well into your 30's and single. Drop the fairy tail ideas and enter the world of realism. Both sexes have faults and many will have baggage. Maybe its time to reassess the very high standards.

That's not true. Unless you mean a past relationship which ended on good terms. My bf doesnt have any baggage and has never been in a bad relationship and we're in our 30's. There's hope for any age to meet someone up to your standards. You should never drop them (your standards) and settle just because you think that's all you're going to get.

Cavehill Red · 31-08-2011 01:43AM

That's the sort of rhetoric I firmly object to - that parents are substandard human beings and partners.

It's far from the case, given that parents are generally more organised and can demonstrate caring and selflessness. I know plenty of parents, male and female, and anybody would be emotional lottery winners to be in a relationship with them. Furthermore, their kids are gems, a privilege to know.

Dating a parent is 'dropping your standards'? Get over yourself, princess, Imagine the outcry if you wrote that dating a black person would be dropping your standards, so you're not prepared to do it. This is simple blind prejudice, nothing more.

I suspect most of those announcing their antiparent prejudice are likely still quite young. Get back to me when you hit 45, and you're either still single, or even better, when you've had a kid and the relationship didn't work out, and let me know how you feel about blanket prejudice against dating parents then.

Kiera · 31-08-2011 01:45AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

That's the sort of rhetoric I firmly object to - that parents are substandard human beings and partners.

It's far from the case, given that parents are generally more organised and can demonstrate caring and selflessness. I know plenty of parents, male and female, and anybody would be emotional lottery winners to be in a relationship with them. Furthermore, their kids are gems, a privilege to know.

Dating a parent is 'dropping your standards'? Get over yourself, princess, Imagine the outcry if you wrote that dating a black person would be dropping your standards, so you're not prepared to do it. This is simple blind prejudice, nothing more.

I suspect most of those announcing their antiparent prejudice are likely still quite young. Get back to me when you hit 45, and you're either still single, or even better, when you've had a kid and the relationship didn't work out, and let me know how you feel about blanket prejudice against dating parents then.

Who are you aiming this post at?

Cavehill Red · 31-08-2011 01:49AM

Kiera wrote: »

Who are you aiming this post at?

The first three pars were for you; the rest is generic.

looky loo · 31-08-2011 01:50AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

That's the sort of rhetoric I firmly object to - that parents are substandard human beings and partners.

It's far from the case, given that parents are generally more organised and can demonstrate caring and selflessness. I know plenty of parents, male and female, and anybody would be emotional lottery winners to be in a relationship with them. Furthermore, their kids are gems, a privilege to know.

Dating a parent is 'dropping your standards'? Get over yourself, princess, Imagine the outcry if you wrote that dating a black person would be dropping your standards, so you're not prepared to do it. This is simple blind prejudice, nothing more.

I suspect most of those announcing their antiparent prejudice are likely still quite young. Get back to me when you hit 45, and you're either still single, or even better, when you've had a kid and the relationship didn't work out, and let me know how you feel about blanket prejudice against dating parents then.

Hello, I am 45 and Im getting back to you. There isnt a blanket prejudice against dating parents, its a preference some people have. I would suggest you are prejudiced against anyone who doesnt want to date people who have children.

Kiera · 31-08-2011 01:52AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

The first three pars were for you; the rest is generic.

Well YOU can stick your post where the sun doesnt shine as i didnt give an opinion on single parents or anything else for that matter. I simply commented on the fact that you can meet someone you think is perfect in your own head when you hit your 30's. The bloody neck of you attacking me. You just made yourself look very silly!

Cavehill Red · 31-08-2011 02:20AM

looky loo wrote: »

Hello, I am 45 and Im getting back to you. There isnt a blanket prejudice against dating parents, its a preference some people have. I would suggest you are prejudiced against anyone who doesnt want to date people who have children.

Actually it is a prejudice some people have. (See definition 2a).

I just think that, like homophobes or racists, it is those who operate on the basis of their prejudice in this regard are the ones who lose out, specifically by missing out on the possibility of wonderful relationships because they prejudge people as potential partners before getting to know them as individuals.

Cavehill Red · 31-08-2011 02:21AM

Kiera wrote: »

Well YOU can stick your post where the sun doesnt shine as i didnt give an opinion on single parents or anything else for that matter. I simply commented on the fact that you can meet someone you think is perfect in your own head when you hit your 30's. The bloody neck of you attacking me. You just made yourself look very silly!

Er, you did read the OP? You do realise the entire thread is about dating parents? I think you're making yourself look silly here.

Kiera · 31-08-2011 02:27AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Er, you did read the OP? You do realise the entire thread is about dating parents? I think you're making yourself look silly here.

Did you read my post? I quoted someone in it so that might give you a hint of who and what i was talking about. Nothing silly about me. I replied to a post. You sprung a load of crap at me from some imaginary post you read of mine.

guitarzero · 31-08-2011 02:29AM

How about not having another child and just loving the one he already has? The last thing this planet needs is another human being, not trying to be inflammatory. If you chose to see the child as something now very personal as a part of the relationship it could be something very positive.

looky loo · 31-08-2011 02:33AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Actually it is a prejudice some people have. (See definition 2a).

I just think that, like homophobes or racists, it is those who operate on the basis of their prejudice in this regard are the ones who lose out, specifically by missing out on the possibility of wonderful relationships because they prejudge people as potential partners before getting to know them as individuals.

I actually do know the meaning of prejudice. I suggest you look up the meaning of preference. I am neither a homophobe or a racist.

Sonics2k · 31-08-2011 02:38AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Actually it is a prejudice some people have. (See definition 2a).

I just think that, like homophobes or racists, it is those who operate on the basis of their prejudice in this regard are the ones who lose out, specifically by missing out on the possibility of wonderful relationships because they prejudge people as potential partners before getting to know them as individuals.

Wait, are you comparing a hatred of people based on sexuality/race/gender/religion, to someone who would simply be less inclined to want to go out with someone who has kids.

I believe you are indeed confusing the word prejudice with preference.

For example, I would prefer not be in a relationship with someone who let's say, weighs 30stone and doesn't ever work, or even has the inclination to do so.
It's the exact same as someone who would prefer not to be in a relationship with someone who already has kids.

~ a separated father with two children of his own.

Miss Olenska · 31-08-2011 02:39AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

That's the sort of rhetoric I firmly object to - that parents are substandard human beings and partners.

It's far from the case, given that parents are generally more organised and can demonstrate caring and selflessness. I know plenty of parents, male and female, and anybody would be emotional lottery winners to be in a relationship with them. Furthermore, their kids are gems, a privilege to know.

Dating a parent is 'dropping your standards'? Get over yourself, princess, Imagine the outcry if you wrote that dating a black person would be dropping your standards, so you're not prepared to do it. This is simple blind prejudice, nothing more.

I suspect most of those announcing their antiparent prejudice are likely still quite young. Get back to me when you hit 45, and you're either still single, or even better, when you've had a kid and the relationship didn't work out, and let me know how you feel about blanket prejudice against dating parents then.

I'm actually shocked at this post. I don't know where to begin.

Malari · 31-08-2011 07:58AM

@Cavehill Red, by your own admission earlier in this thread, you said you would only date English speakers. By your understanding of dating preference, you could be accused of being predjudiced against non-English speakers. Which is of course, ludicrous.

I am astounded you continuously fail to see the difference.

Wibbs · 31-08-2011 09:19AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

That's the sort of rhetoric I firmly object to - that parents are substandard human beings and partners.

No one has said that in this thread. Not a single person. You in some bewidering fashion compared junkies and criminals with parents in a reply to me. That's about it.

It's far from the case, given that parents are generally more organised and can demonstrate caring and selflessness. I know plenty of parents, male and female, and anybody would be emotional lottery winners to be in a relationship with them. Furthermore, their kids are gems, a privilege to know.

So? I Don't Want Kids And If I Ever Did I'd Want My Own.
I don't care if they're a cross between Mother Teresa and Scarlet Johanson, I Don't Want Kids. It's not the parents it's the ankle biters. Bless em

Dating a parent is 'dropping your standards'? Get over yourself, princess,

Way to put words in someone's mouth. She never said that.

Imagine the outcry if you wrote that dating a black person would be dropping your standards, so you're not prepared to do it. This is simple blind prejudice, nothing more

And yet again we've crashed on the rocks of hyperbole and misdirection.

I suspect most of those announcing their antiparent prejudice are likely still quite young. Get back to me when you hit 45, and you're either still single,

Near enough. *Waves arthritic hand* and again it's not anti parent "prejudice" if anything it's anti child "prejudice".

or even better, when you've had a kid and the relationship didn't work out, and let me know how you feel about blanket prejudice against dating parents then.

...and here we are. Look everyone has preferences. Everyone including you BTW. If you're short, tall, fat, skinny, whatever, some, many people will think "nah not my type". Hell there are women reading this that would turn down George Clooney. I doubt he's losing too much sleep over it. Many other people will go "They're cool, I would". I could never understand why anyone should get their y fronts in a bunch concentrating on those that wouldn't be into you for whatever reason. Makes no sense.

Emme · 31-08-2011 10:44AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Dating a parent is 'dropping your standards'? Get over yourself, princess, Imagine the outcry if you wrote that dating a black person would be dropping your standards, so you're not prepared to do it. This is simple blind prejudice, nothing more.

I would have thought that dating an alcoholic, a racist, a cokehead or somebody who is generally negative and abusive would be dropping standards. And believe me, lots of people do date people like that.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I suspect most of those announcing their antiparent prejudice are likely still quite young. Get back to me when you hit 45, and you're either still single, or even better, when you've had a kid and the relationship didn't work out, and let me know how you feel about blanket prejudice against dating parents then.

The first time I dated a parent was when I was 30 and a few months out of a LTR. Lovely guy and that fact he had a child added depth to his character. I don't mind if somebody has children or not, it's the person themselves that counts.

Some people are very into themselves and their hobbies and children or pets just get in the way. I'd imagine these people would rather not date parents. That's their choice but can you really go through life being that selfish? What if these people have elderly parents of their own who need attention? What do they do then? Do they hold up their hands and say "I won't date parents and I'm not going to bother about my own parents either! Go away and let me go windsurfing/scuba diving/mountain biking etc."

31-08-2011 10:48AM

I would respectfully suggest that if cavehill is having trouble finding someone to date him it's not the parent issue

Malari · 31-08-2011 10:58AM

Emme wrote: »

Some people are very into themselves and their hobbies and children or pets just get in the way. I'd imagine these people would rather not date parents. That's their choice but can you really go through life being that selfish? What if these people have elderly parents of their own who need attention? What do they do then? Do they hold up their hands and say "I won't date parents and I'm not going to bother about my own parents either! Go away and let me go windsurfing/scuba diving/mountain biking etc."

I find this insulting - the insinuation that people who are not into kids cannot be caring and loving individuals to their families; their parents, siblings, partners, friends, etc. Yes, children would get in the way of my lifestyle, but that in no way implies I am selfish.

bluewolf wrote: »

I would respectfully suggest that if cavehill is having trouble finding someone to date him it's not the parent issue

That is not the issue; CR has already stated he is in a happy relationship, so it's a more general observation that people who don't date parents are shallow and demented.

Ickle Magoo · 31-08-2011 11:10AM

I'm sorry, I'm a parent and I think the whole "selfish"/"shallow"/"demented" sentiment is just really silly.

Some people are not so desperate for a relationship that they come to a certain age & they don't care about what kind of life or responsibilities a potential partner has. Some are not so desperate for love that they are just grateful to get anybody and whatever kind of relationship and expectations they've had go out the window at the prospect.

Some are a little more discerning. If a potential partner being childless is their preference, then that's their preference. There is nothing unselfish about having kids, there is no guarantee of being a good person or kind just because you are a parent - a read of any newspaper can tell you that - it just means your reproductive system works, nothing more, nothing less.

I don't see a preference for partners being childless as any different to having a preference that your partner doesn't work nights, or works six months of the year in china, or still lives at home. People are entitled to expectations and preferences, we all have them - and to try to make out some are unacceptable just because they happen to affect us, is just ridiculous.

Emme · 31-08-2011 03:01PM

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I'm sorry, I'm a parent and I think the whole "selfish"/"shallow"/"demented" sentiment is just really silly.

Some people are not so desperate for a relationship that they come to a certain age & they don't care about what kind of life or responsibilities a potential partner has. Some are not so desperate for love that they are just grateful to get anybody and whatever kind of relationship and expectations they've had go out the window at the prospect.

Some are a little more discerning. If a potential partner being childless is their preference, then that's their preference. There is nothing unselfish about having kids, there is no guarantee of being a good person or kind just because you are a parent - a read of any newspaper can tell you that - it just means your reproductive system works, nothing more, nothing less.

I don't see a preference for partners being childless as any different to having a preference that your partner doesn't work nights, or works six months of the year in china, or still lives at home. People are entitled to expectations and preferences, we all have them - and to try to make out some are unacceptable just because they happen to affect us, is just ridiculous.

What has desperation got to do with it? I wasn't dating people with children when I was in my teens and twenties purely because I didn't meet any. I did date a guy with children when I was 30 and have dated people with or without children since. As a single person it makes no difference to me if a person has children or not.

I think that some people with children are bothered by the fact that some potential partners see children as a deal-breaker.

Not wanting children doesn't mean a person is selfish, but I have noticed (especially as they get older) that the men I meet who don't have children are more into themselves and are less likely to make time for others than men who have children. The irony is that the men who have children would have less time for others but they always seem to be more willing to make time for others. Maybe having children makes them better time managers.

Ickle Magoo · 31-08-2011 03:10PM

All the talk of getting to a certain age and dropping ideals because you can't afford to be fussy reeks of desperation - of being so desperate for a relationship or expecting others to be that it should be a case of willingly forgoing the kind of relationship you actually really want just for the "privilege" of having a relationship, any relationship...which is a terrible basis for a long and healthy relationship.

And there's been plenty posted already on this thread about the pitfalls and unattractiveness of dating parents. I think it's silly to fall into the "correlation does not equal causation" trap and draw parallels between being into yourself or making time for others and parenthood - some of the most selfish, self-centred excuses for partners have an entire brood, after all.

Emme · 31-08-2011 03:20PM

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

All the talk of getting to a certain age and dropping ideals because you can't afford to be fussy reeks of desperation - of being so desperate for a relationship or expecting others to be that it should be a case of willingly forgoing the kind of relationship you actually really want just for the "privilege" of having a relationship, any relationship...which is a terrible basis for a long and healthy relationship.

I don't think people drop ideals per se, but when they grow up a bit they realise they're not going to end up married to George Clooney, Freida Pinto or whatever the film star of the day is. That doesn't mean they turn around and date a 20 stone alcoholic slob (of either gender :rolleyes:) it just means they grow up and get real.

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

And there's been plenty posted already on this thread about the pitfalls and unattractiveness of dating parents. I think it's silly to fall into the "correlation does not equal causation" trap and draw parallels between being into yourself or making time for others and parenthood - some of the most selfish, self-centred excuses for partners have an entire brood, after all.

The selfish, self-centred excuses aren't likely to have custody of the children after separation or divorce. If there's one thing that puts me off a man it's when he says "I have kids but I never see them" assuming they're not grown up children and his ex isn't a psycho who won't let him near the children.

31-08-2011 03:58PM

I think Emma put it best you ideas do change as your get older and live a bit.

When I met my partner ( we met on a dating site ) my youngest daughter was 14, at the time my partners preference was to meet someone with no children or older/grown up children, however we did meet. He was honest enough to say he would not meet anyone with a young family and he had been a bit hesitant about meeting me because my daughter was only 14, did I berate him for having such a preference no of course not, because it unrealistic to expect that people won't have preferences.

Its not so much that people are looking for an idea,l but that life is complicated enough with out making it any more so if you can help it.

For some women the wonder and magic of there first child is something that they want their partner to be experiencing for the first time as well and that can be an important factor in not dating someone who already has children.

Ickle Magoo · 31-08-2011 04:11PM

Emme wrote: »

I don't think people drop ideals per se, but when they grow up a bit they realise they're not going to end up married to George Clooney, Freida Pinto or whatever the film star of the day is. That doesn't mean they turn around and date a 20 stone alcoholic slob (of either gender :rolleyes:) it just means they grow up and get real.

There's nothing "not real" or immature about having a life-long aversion to children or a particular preference about what kind of responsibilities and life you want a prospective partner to have ...and nor is not wanting to date a single-parent akin to the realisation (at 14 or so for most!) that X hollywood star isn't going to be your spouse.

It is interesting though, that those who object to free choice in partner preference have to keep resorting to the fallacious ad hominems in order to propagate this idea that someone is somehow lacking or less of a person or grown up for not wanting to get involved with someone who already has children.

Emme wrote: »

The selfish, self-centred excuses aren't likely to have custody of the children after separation or divorce. If there's one thing that puts me off a man it's when he says "I have kids but I never see them" assuming they're not grown up children and his ex isn't a psycho who won't let him near the children.

Custody doesn't guarantee what kind of person they are - never mind what kind of partner they'll be. Sorry, but I think it's just more assumptions and fallacies being peddled here.

sam34 · 31-08-2011 04:32PM

Emme wrote: »

Some people are very into themselves and their hobbies and children or pets just get in the way. I'd imagine these people would rather not date parents. That's their choice but can you really go through life being that selfish?

LOL.

realising you dont want children and instead want to pursue other interests and thus not having children, not getting involved with someone who has them, and pursuing those other interests is selfish?

surely, then, realising you want children and thus having them is equally selfish?

looky loo · 31-08-2011 05:26PM

mariaalice wrote: »

I think Emma put it best you ideas do change as your get older and live a bit.

When I met my partner ( we met on a dating site ) my youngest daughter was 14, at the time my partners preference was to meet someone with no children or older/grown up children, however we did meet. He was honest enough to say he would not meet anyone with a young family and he had been a bit hesitant about meeting me because my daughter was only 14, did I berate him for having such a preference no of course not, because it unrealistic to expect that people won't have preferences.

Its not so much that people are looking for an idea,l but that life is complicated enough with out making it any more so if you can help it.

For some women the wonder and magic of there first child is something that they want their partner to be experiencing for the first time as well and that can be an important factor in not dating someone who already has children.

Exactly very well put maria.

A question for the single ladies

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