Rich men vs. hot women

gargleblaster · 29-08-2011 07:05PM #1

Why are women who want to date wealthy men viewed so harshly? I get that it's shallow, but as I see it, it's no different than a man wanting to date a hot woman. So why the difference? Or are men who focus on looks viewed harshly and I simply haven't noticed?

I'm really puzzled about this. I hope it's not something obvious that I'm missing. And I do realize that this is a generalization and that there are also women who are only interested in buff men with cut physiques as well as young men who seek out wealthy older women. However regarding the more common stereotype, I don't understand why they're viewed so differently when they seem to me to be more or less mirror images of each other.

ilikepears · 29-08-2011 07:30PM

gargleblaster wrote: »

Why are women who want to date wealthy men viewed so harshly? I get that it's shallow, but as I see it, it's no different than a man wanting to date a hot woman. So why the difference? Or are men who focus on looks viewed harshly and I simply haven't noticed?

I'm really puzzled about this. I hope it's not something obvious that I'm missing. And I do realize that this is a generalization and that there are also women who are only interested in buff men with cut physiques as well as young men who seek out wealthy older women. However regarding the more common stereotype, I don't understand why they're viewed so differently when they seem to me to be more or less mirror images of each other.

I think any women who dates a man solely because he has a big wallet is a gold digger and probably not a very nice person. Its shallow to think that as a man a woman is only dating you for the about of money in your bank account. Its the same as a man dating a hot woman only for her looks. It reduces that person to only one aspect of them.
However if a woman admits that she takes into consideration how much a potential partner earns then that's quite different. As a woman I wouldn't date a person who I feel wouldn't be able to provide me with the kind of lifestyle that I desire. By that I mean I don't want a man who earns so little that money problems would follow us throughout our life together. That's not the type of lifestyle I want for either me or any future children.
However I do realise that the most important thing in any relationship is love and how ye treat each other. So maybe if everything else was perfect then money wouldn't matter.

Ickle Magoo · 29-08-2011 07:39PM

Hmmm. Good question.

Perhaps it's just because a man wanting a hot woman pre-dates women being able to choose whether they want a man based on whatever criterion?

So, one is viewed as just basic common sense which we don't even have a particular title for despite being equally shallow and the other is awarded the status of common and garden gold-digger/harlot/woman getting above her station-esque type vilification that you find a lot around more modern descriptives of women as they started levelling the playing field.

Eve_Dublin · 29-08-2011 09:58PM

Very good question indeed and I'm just having a little think about it now...

I do see a lot of condemnation in the media and on the internet of women choosing men based on how much they earn but very little because a man chooses a woman because of her looks. I dunno. Could it be that it's easier to doll yourself up as woman and to make yourself what is considered hot in society today? Most women (I think..) can take steps to hot themselves up with make up, diet and clothes. Many women who are labelled as hot are often only that way because they've spent a lot of time, money and creativity achieving that look whereas it's a hell of a lot more difficult to get to the position where you're earning big bucks and not many men get there thus creating resentment among those who don't, which is most men. It's a standard that's more difficult to attain perhaps? Speaking from a personal point of view, I could do myself up right now and look good but I'm never going to be rich no matter how hard I try.

F.Y.I: I've never gone out with a rich man myself...they've all been as broke as myself. I suppose I'd be more impressed by personal achievements than how much they earn. A broke, talented artist would definitely attract me more than a rich banker.

Tayla · 29-08-2011 10:30PM

There was a scene in a film once (can't remember the film though).......

anyway this guy turns around to this other guy and says about his hot young girlfriend "do you think she'd be with you if you weren't rich?"

and the rich guy just looked at him and said "do you think i'd be with her if she wasn't beautiful?"

Fair trade off if you ask me, personally i'd never be with a guy just because he was rich though, I don't really care about money and would be very uncomfortable with things being bought for me etc.

parker kent · 29-08-2011 10:49PM

I think men who focus solely on looks are treated harshly tbh. Anybody that bases decisions on something extremely shallow are treated harshly.

saywhatyousee · 29-08-2011 10:53PM

"A Womens test in life is material,A mans test in life is a women"-Dave chappelle

saywhatyousee · 29-08-2011 10:58PM

parker kent wrote: »

I think men who focus solely on looks are treated harshly tbh. Anybody that bases decisions on something extremely shallow are treated harshly.

That is codswollap Tbh.I will admit i am very shallow i have never been treated "harshly" for it.Quite the opposite

D1stant · 29-08-2011 11:06PM

gargleblaster wrote: »

Why are women who want to date wealthy men viewed so harshly? I get that it's shallow, but as I see it, it's no different than a man wanting to date a hot woman. So why the difference? Or are men who focus on looks viewed harshly and I simply haven't noticed?

I'm really puzzled about this. I hope it's not something obvious that I'm missing. And I do realize that this is a generalization and that there are also women who are only interested in buff men with cut physiques as well as young men who seek out wealthy older women. However regarding the more common stereotype, I don't understand why they're viewed so differently when they seem to me to be more or less mirror images of each other.

I think if you replace harshly with jealously (on both sides) you have your answer. The average person is jealous that you are using what they see as an unfair advantage to get what they cannot get

parker kent · 29-08-2011 11:11PM

saywhatyousee wrote: »

That is codswollap Tbh.I will admit i am very shallow i have never been treated "harshly" for it.Quite the opposite

I didn't say that every single individual is treated harshly. The idea of a "gold digger" or an older guy dating a woman purely for looks is treated harshly in media depictions and in received wisdom. Given the thread is about generalisations and stereotypes, I presumed that to be obvious.

Also, your interpretation of being treated harshly seems incorrect in the context of the thread.

Alopex · 29-08-2011 11:19PM

people misunderstand why women like rich men. they thinks its a "they want his money so they whore themselves out" scheme

in reality the money actually makes the man more attractive to the girls. They see him in a different light. Just as hotness makes a girl more attractive to a guy - he's not just thinking about how symmetric her facial features are or how clear her skin is

This is just my opinion but I see it a lot. See female friends who are genuinely mad into a rich guy just as they normally would be into handsome/funny/intelligent guys

also there was a study before showing women statistically had more orgasms with richer men. as if their gene controlled body was tricking them into thinking rich men were better lovers!

gargleblaster · 29-08-2011 11:32PM

parker kent wrote: »

I didn't say that every single individual is treated harshly. The idea of a "gold digger" or an older guy dating a woman purely for looks is treated harshly in media depictions and in received wisdom. Given the thread is about generalisations and stereotypes, I presumed that to be obvious.

Why are you narrowing it to older men who are dating women purely for looks? I don't see how age comes into it really. Shallow is shallow, regardless of age. It's more understandable with young people, but I don't think young 'gold diggers' are cut any slack.

Alopex wrote: »

people misunderstand why women like rich men. they thinks its a "they want his money so they whore themselves out" scheme

in reality the money actually makes the man more attractive to the girls. They see him in a different light. Just as hotness makes a girl more attractive to a guy - he's not just thinking about how symmetric her facial features are or how clear her skin is

This is just my opinion but I see it a lot. See female friends who are genuinely mad into a rich guy just as they normally would be into handsome/funny/intelligent guys

also there was a study before showing women statistically had more orgasms with richer men. as if their gene controlled body was tricking them into thinking rich men were better lovers!

This is it exactly IMO. I have dated my share of wealthy men and I never wanted to marry any of them, and those that brought up marriage turned me off immediately. After they brought it up, suddenly they were not so attractive, and I wanted nothing to do with them.

I know that for me personally, it wasn't about wanting to glom onto them as a meal ticket, it just made them seem more attractive and interesting to me. Didn't take me very long to grow out of that phase.

If society views men who place a priority on a woman's hotness harshly, I sure haven't seen evidence of it. I'm certainly not aware of any pejorative terms for it, such as 'gold digger' is for women.

D1stant · 29-08-2011 11:34PM

Alopex wrote: »

also there was a study before showing women statistically had more orgasms with richer men. as if their gene controlled body was tricking them into thinking rich men were better lovers!

Wow. Sponsored by Hugh Heffner no doubt. Got a link to that?

WindSock · 29-08-2011 11:34PM

Yep, seems to be a major taboo now for a woman to say she is attracted to men with wealth / success / power / class. She gets labelled a gold digger. Even if it is just success or ambition which themselves are desireable traits in both sexes.

But there is also a good bit of brush tarring going on that all women are attracted to rich men...(and are therefore whores, and also seem to be a good few around who ask what a person earns?...)

Dunno about that, but if that were the case then men with average incomes would never get the ride / married.

Alopex · 29-08-2011 11:45PM

D1stant wrote: »

Wow. Sponsored by Hugh Heffner no doubt. Got a link to that?

this an article about the study.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article5537017.ece

gargleblaster · 29-08-2011 11:51PM

WindSock wrote: »

But there is also a good bit of brush tarring going on that all women are attracted to rich men...(and are therefore whores, and also seem to be a good few around who ask what a person earns?...)

I really cannot imagine a woman asking about income. That's just shocking. I guess they'd be very openly looking to be a kept woman or something.

I always figured the attraction to wealthy men was just a holdover from the primitive drive to secure a good provider as a mate. Same as men are attracted to sexually healthy looking bodies - whether or not they're interested in actually impregnating the woman - just primitive drives that haven't completely died off. That's my take anyway.

Abi · 30-08-2011 12:46AM

Theres a thread running TGC about women apparently asking men out straight what they earn. Now it's not something I've ever heard myself, and you'd want to have some gall to do it. But I suppose I mentioned it because it ties loosely with the topic.

I think money grabbing 'hot' women, and wealthy men who sniff after them - well they deserve each other. Both are equally as shallow as the other.

You can't put a price on a happy, respectful, loyal relationship, and the ability to pick the other up on their down days, and have laughter in their lives. Those relationships last.

Miss Olenska · 30-08-2011 12:49AM

Marry for money, you'll earn every penny.
Marry for looks, trade her in. (But only if you're rich and/or powerful)

I'm not sure what point I'm making.

Da Shins Kelly · 30-08-2011 03:06AM

Certainly an interesting question. To be honest, I think it's got an awful lot to do with people simply being intimidated by a woman who knows what she wants (money-wise) and goes and gets it. The idea of a man actively pursuing and succeeding in seducing a beautiful woman simply because of her beauty is a much older concept, and something that is more accepted by the rest of society as a result. I think, personally, they're both equally shallow and someone who judges someone based purely on looks is as deserving of as much vilification as a gold-digger. I just think that shallowness is tolerated more if it's coming from a man, because it has history and, in fact, a lot of men were probably judged on the cut of the woman they had on their arm back in the day. It's an idea that far pre-dates an real idea of shallow, go-getting women.

That's just my initial thought. It's definitely something I'd think more about though.

parker kent · 30-08-2011 07:51AM

gargleblaster wrote: »

Why are you narrowing it to older men who are dating women purely for looks? I don't see how age comes into it really. Shallow is shallow, regardless of age. It's more understandable with young people, but I don't think young 'gold diggers' are cut any slack.

I was giving one example from the many 1000s of shallow things people can do. I could be here all day typing out every instance of how a man or a woman could be shallow. I instead picked 1 that compares with women being attracted to rich men in terms of the wider public's reaction.

parker kent · 30-08-2011 08:03AM

Alopex wrote: »

people misunderstand why women like rich men. they thinks its a "they want his money so they whore themselves out" scheme

in reality the money actually makes the man more attractive to the girls. They see him in a different light. Just as hotness makes a girl more attractive to a guy - he's not just thinking about how symmetric her facial features are or how clear her skin is

This is just my opinion but I see it a lot. See female friends who are genuinely mad into a rich guy just as they normally would be into handsome/funny/intelligent guys

What exactly is "seeing him in a different light"? How is that different to being attracted to the wealth? I don't see how an example of a man (who would otherwise be ignored by a particular type of woman) becoming attractive purely because he has money is explaining what you say is a misunderstanding. To me it says: he becomes attractive when he has money. Therefore, the money is what made him attractive.

The equivalent example you give is a bit off in my estimation too. I would imagine that on a deeper level that a person that sees an attractive person thinks that because on an instinctive level they recognise universally attractive features such as a symmetrical face, glossy hair, bright eyes, nice figure etc. Now they are not saying in their head "wow look at the symmetry on her". But that is effectively what is happening at an instinctive level.

BTW I don't think there is anything wrong with being attracted to money or looks. So long as that is not the only criteria used to judge a person. I mean if I met a really nice, attractive, funny and intelligent girl and I found out she was extremely wealthy, I'd hardly be upset. It is just that wealth would never enter my head when making a decision on a partner. I do genuinely believe that looks are more important than wealth. I don't think that is me being shallow, I think it is basic human behaviour to seek out a partner that you are physically attracted to.

LittleBook · 30-08-2011 08:51AM

Alopex wrote: »

also there was a study before showing women statistically had more orgasms with richer men. as if their gene controlled body was tricking them into thinking rich men were better lovers!

Interesting article but I get the impression that the crux of the study is the "perceived quality" of the partners, not specifically their wealth.

In this day and age money and looks are the most highly valued assets, which could explain this entire discussion.

The difference between people who focus on certain things in a partner and why, could simply be based on different sets of values.

Wibbs · 30-08-2011 11:12AM

LittleBook wrote: »

In this day and age money and looks are the most highly valued assets, which could explain this entire discussion

Well to be fair looks and money, well social power were always highly valued assets. Looks moreso in women as it's a fairly good indicator of reproductive health. I;ve read studies which show that people all things considered very strongly tend to end up with others at the same "level" in looks. couples are judged separately and not knowing who is with whom by random observers and marked on looks. When the looks are matched the couples tend to be. So crudely put a 4 man will tend to end up with a 4 woman and an 8 with an 8 etc. What can skew this pattern is wealth or other social value in the men. In that case a "5" man could end up with an 8 woman. It seems to hold true across cultures too. The best hunter/chief in the tribe will have more women and better looking women than guys further down the totem pole. It'll be interesting to see how this will change with more and more women earning more.

LeixlipRed · 30-08-2011 11:56AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Well to be fair looks and money, well social power were always highly valued assets. Looks moreso in women as it's a fairly good indicator of reproductive health. I;ve read studies which show that people all things considered very strongly tend to end up with others at the same "level" in looks. couples are judged separately and not knowing who is with whom by random observers and marked on looks. When the looks are matched the couples tend to be. So crudely put a 4 man will tend to end up with a 4 woman and an 8 with an 8 etc. What can skew this pattern is wealth or other social value in the men. In that case a "5" man could end up with an 8 woman. It seems to hold true across cultures too. The best hunter/chief in the tribe will have more women and better looking women than guys further down the totem pole. It'll be interesting to see how this will change with more and more women earning more.

But then anecdotally my experience would tell me that most people choose partners based upon the actual content of their personality, the values they hold. Experience also tells me that rich, shallow types generally don't have an overabundance of those values. I think people are more free to choose a suitable partner than at any other point of history. Not free enough but us socialists are working on that

scholar007 · 30-08-2011 12:00PM

They say its as easy to love a rich man as it is a poor man..... But the rich guys do tend to get the totty.

Emme · 30-08-2011 12:15PM

Alopex wrote: »

this an article about the study.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article5537017.ece

A very erudite and scholarly source. :rolleyes:

Logical Fallacy · 30-08-2011 12:45PM

Emme wrote: »

A very erudite and scholarly source. :rolleyes:

Indeed, a study done in China...where honesty and truth are obviously valued above all else.

To me it is pretty simple...there is a general assumption that a rich man will have worked for his money. There will have been graft and effort and risk.

A good looking woman is simply the beneficiary of a genetic lotto. As such, in an attempt to woo someone who's main attraction is as a result of their hard work and other "finer" qualities they will simply be seen to be trying to insinuate themselves into a lifestyle they don't deserve based purely on luck.

It's not really something i hold to myself, but i reckon it plays a factor in peoples interpretation of the roles, consciously or subconsciously.

LittleBook · 30-08-2011 01:01PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Well to be fair looks and money, well social power were always highly valued assets.

Wibbs wrote: »

The best hunter/chief in the tribe will have more women and better looking women than guys further down the totem pole.

But that's kinda my point. Today it's looks and money, before it was strength and hunting skills, tomorrow it could be ...

Wibbs wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how this will change with more and more women earning more.

This is the future for some but many of us are already there.

I can't think of one woman I know who would put a prospective partner's wealth at the top of the list of qualities. Physical attraction, sexual attraction, personality, intelligence, humour, parenting skills, creativity, self-confidence, good manners, good DIY skills and dozens of other things would appear on the list ... and yes, of course, financial stability ... but "wealth"? No.

People have used evolutionary psychology to explain why women have orgasms, like the colour pink, enjoy shopping and why men cheat and (now) why poor men are bad lovers. I just don't buy it ... but I'll keep my mind open.

Wibbs · 30-08-2011 01:02PM

True, looks are a genetic lottery, but lifestyle has a large part to play in it too. Few good looking women(or men) at 20 are going to look too hot at 25 if they're chugging the ciggies, drinking like fish and eating for two. Beauty takes upkeep.

LittleBook · 30-08-2011 01:16PM

Wibbs wrote: »

True, looks are a genetic lottery, but lifestyle has a large part to play in it too. Few good looking women(or men) at 20 are going to look too hot at 25 if they're chugging the ciggies, drinking like fish and eating for two. Beauty takes upkeep.

You don't believe in natural beauty? There simply are some women (and men) who are naturally more beautiful than others and some women (and men) who however well they behave will never, EVER meet society's current most basic criteria for beauty.

Of course it's all in the eyes of the beholder, yadda, yadda, but you get what I mean.

In any case, I think the kind of "upkeep" that beauty takes is generally frowned upon so being seen to spend too much time, money, energy on looking beautiful is not necessarily a good thing.

Whereas being seen to work hard and (over?) ambition is generally widely appreciated.

I think LF's nailed it there.

Edit: Sorry Wibbs, read your post wrong, shouldn't post when all I can think of is lunch!

30-08-2011 01:18PM

LittleBook wrote: »

You don't believe in natural beauty? .

The very first line of his quote says "True, looks are a genetic lottery,"

Rich men vs. hot women

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