Cover the sahara desert with solar panels!

gonedrinking · 27-08-2011 11:53AM #1

That will provide Europe with all their energy requirements going forward. I deserve a nobel prize for this idea.

Sky King · 27-08-2011 11:55AM

Except its a stupid idea.

Other than that it's flawless though.

gonedrinking · 27-08-2011 11:59AM

Sky King wrote: »

Except its a stupid idea.

Other than that it's flawless though.

hows it stupid

Mike 1972 · 27-08-2011 12:01PM

gonedrinking wrote: »

I deserve a nobel prize for this idea.

I think originality might be be of the criteria ?

Sky King · 27-08-2011 12:04PM

Well firstly, if it was a good idea it would have been done by now. Secondly, you can't just 'put in solar panels' you need to have a huge electrical infrastructure to transmit the power, thirdly, photovoltaic cells are quite inefficient at creating electricity and cost an absolute fortune to make.

Fourthly, as with wind power, when you rely on something like the sun which is not always shining like on cloudy days or at night time, you need to have traditional power stations in reserve to pick up the slack. these can't just be 'switched on' they need to be left on all the time.

There's more, but essentially, thats why.

Mike 1972 · 27-08-2011 12:06PM

Sky King wrote: »

Well firstly, if it was a good idea it would have been done by now.

?

gonedrinking · 27-08-2011 12:10PM

Sky King wrote: »

Fourthly, as with wind power, when you rely on something like the sun which is not always shining like on cloudy days or at night time, you need to have traditional power stations in reserve to pick up the slack.

wrong, the energy created can be stored (probably)

Amhran Nua · 27-08-2011 12:14PM

Sky King wrote: »

Well firstly, if it was a good idea it would have been done by now. Secondly, you can't just 'put in solar panels' you need to have a huge electrical infrastructure to transmit the power, thirdly, photovoltaic cells are quite inefficient at creating electricity and cost an absolute fortune to make.

Fourthly, as with wind power, when you rely on something like the sun which is not always shining like on cloudy days or at night time, you need to have traditional power stations in reserve to pick up the slack. these can't just be 'switched on' they need to be left on all the time.

There's more, but essentially, thats why.

And almost every word wrong.

If around two to five percent of the uninhabited portions of the Sahara were covered in PV cells, you would supply enough energy for the entire planet.

That's why people are setting up something similar right now.

Happyzebra · 27-08-2011 12:16PM

What a fantastic idea.

Elohim · 27-08-2011 12:26PM

gonedrinking wrote: »

That will provide Europe with all their energy requirements going forward. I deserve a nobel prize for this idea.

Do the Africans get a say in this? Or is it just Europeans that'll get the electricity.

Also, energy can't be stored easily so at niht it wouldn't work.

kylith · 27-08-2011 12:30PM

Wouldn't it ruin the ecosystem there?

pickarooney · 27-08-2011 12:31PM

Elohim wrote: »

Do the Africans get a say in this? Or is it just Europeans that'll get the electricity.

Also, energy can't be stored easily so at niht it wouldn't work.

How do batteries work?

Mike 1972 · 27-08-2011 12:33PM

Elohim wrote: »

Also, energy can't be stored easily .

TBH a lot of discussions on energy problems focus too much on finding new sources of energy rather than the real problems of storage (and to a lesser extent distribution).

Wind, tidal, wave and solar all have issues with matching fluctuating supply to demand. Electric cars are disadvantaged by the fact that its difficult to match one of the biggest advantages of petrol namely its so damn good at storing a large quantity of energy in a small mass. Even hydrogen suffers storage and distribution problems (its very prone to leakage).

If we could come up with a feasible way of bulk storage of large amounts of electric power we could be laughing (or smiling anyway)

pickarooney wrote: »

How do batteries work?

Not very well (right now)

gonedrinking · 27-08-2011 12:36PM

Elohim wrote: »

Also, energy can't be stored easily so at niht it wouldn't work.

Energy is available in abundance and we have the technology to use it
Within six hours, deserts receive more energy from the sun than humanity consumes within a year. The sun shines all day on a belt that encompasses the globe either side of the equator – and with the technology that is now available, most countries could supplement their energy mix with clean electricity from deserts. Thanks to heat storage tanks, solar-thermal power plants in deserts can supply electricity day and night, ideally supplementing electricity grids that rely on fluctuating energy sources such as photovoltaic and wind power.

Son Of A Vidic · 27-08-2011 12:38PM

gonedrinking wrote: »

That will provide Europe with all their energy requirements going forward.

Going forward? Going forward where? Is Europe relocating?

mossy2390 · 27-08-2011 12:40PM

it has been thought of before, and the whole sahara would provide enough power for the whole world 55 times over, apparently solar farms around the size of wales would power the whole of Europe if they were placed in the sahara.
the problem is setting it up, building roads and infrastructure into the area as well as creating a massive new electrical grid to distribute it. it has been estimated to cost around 35 billion, not much when you think about the whole of Europe and other country pooling together.
as for PV cells being inefficient and the problems with weather and night time, its the sahara there is rarely a cloud in the sky there, there is also different ways to get power besides PV cells, one being a solar tower where mirrors are used to focus the energy onto one spot which heats water which turns a turbine, there are also concave mirrors that focus the sun onto pipes that contain a coolant that then again turns a turbine and can also be used to store the heat in molten salt which can then be tapped into to run the generators at night.

naturally there are other problems, sand covering the cells/mirrors is a big one, but this could be overcome, also diplomatic issues, many different country's borders are in the sahara and they might not be willing,etc

Phill Ewinn · 27-08-2011 12:46PM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

And almost every word wrong.

If around two to five percent of the uninhabited portions of the Sahara were covered in PV cells, you would supply enough energy for the entire planet.

That's why people are setting up something similar right now.

Its a dumb idea. The sahara gets dark. Transmission would cost energy. Wind pumped hydro would work for us. It'd be many times cheaper for us and a lot more reliable

Amhran Nua · 27-08-2011 12:47PM

Elohim wrote: »

Do the Africans get a say in this? Or is it just Europeans that'll get the electricity.

The typical arrangement is that countries where the power originates and countries that cables pass through get a cut of the profits, just like oil.

CrazyRabbit · 27-08-2011 12:49PM

If everyone used solar panels on their houses, we'd generate 10-20% of our energy needs from them.

There's also geothermal energy which can be used in many places. And then with wind and tidal turbines, we could almost meet all our energy needs.

Then...only use very efficient electrical equipment & convert all public lighting to LED's and we're good to go!

Only problem is the initial setup costs...

Mike 1972 · 27-08-2011 12:51PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Going forward where? Is Europe relocating?

Plate Tectonics ?

ejmaztec · 27-08-2011 12:52PM

We'd still get robbed by the ESB wherever the feckin electricity came from.

mossy2390 · 27-08-2011 12:55PM

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Its a dumb idea. The sahara gets dark. Transmission would cost energy. Wind pumped hydro would work for us. It'd be many times cheaper for us and a lot more reliable

well its hardly windy all the time is it? the sun in the sahara is very reliable and the energy can be stored to produce electricity over night and it will generate a hell of a lot more energy than wind turbines, in terms of producing all the energy needed this is by far the best idea

dr.bollocko · 27-08-2011 12:57PM

Woops. I left my xbox on all night.
And my iron. And the telly. And I've set up my fridge so the light stays on when the door is closed so the pickles don't get frightened.

gonedrinking · 27-08-2011 12:57PM

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Its a dumb idea. The sahara gets dark. Transmission would cost energy. Wind pumped hydro would work for us. It'd be many times cheaper for us and a lot more reliable

The major obstacle to using renewable energy has always been the inability to produce a constant supply of electricity to consumers. However, scientists now believe that they have found a way to solve the supply and demand problem. Arnulf Jaeger-Waldau of the European Commission's Institute for Energy, speaking at the Euroscience Open Forum in Barcelona (ESOF), believes that the creation of solar farms in the Sahara desert could produce enough energy to meet all of Europe's energy needs. Power could be generated either through photovoltaic cells or by using the sun's heat to boil water and power turbines.
Scientists at the ESOF 2008 are also proposing a 'supergrid' that could transmit electricity along high voltage direct current cables and potentially allow countries to export their wind energy during periods of surplus, as well as import energy from other sources. The grid proposal, with its ability to transmit power from different sources, eliminates the criticism of the instability of renewable energy. If there is no wind or sun in Europe, there certainly will be in the Sahara and the grid could potentially be able to transmit that energy to where it is needed.
The argument for solar farms in the Sahara is solid in that photovoltaic panels there could potentially generate three times more energy than panels in northern Europe. It is estimated that capturing 0.3% of the sunlight falling on the desert would meet all of Europe's needs.
The major drawback to the proposal is the cost and the time. An investment of around €450bn would be needed and scientists estimate that it would take until 2050 before the project could produce 100 GW which is more electricity than all sources of power in the UK combined.

Son Of A Vidic · 27-08-2011 01:01PM

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Plate Tectonics ?

Dear God! Will Edward Cayce be proven right?

Son Of A Vidic · 27-08-2011 01:03PM

mossy2390 wrote: »

well its hardly windy all the time is it?

Well it is in my house..........and that's just the wife.:(

Amhran Nua · 27-08-2011 01:04PM

People really underestimate the sheer amount of energy that's dumped on us every single second by the sun, and by extension, the wind and tides. We are drowning in energy. It's just going to take a little time to set up the infrastructure to take advantage of it.

That is exactly what we're doing however; within 40 to 80 years, everything is going to be powered from renewable sources. Your grandchildren are going to look back on the oil, coal and gas era the same way we look at steam engines.

Contrary to what most doom prophets would have you believe, the future actually looks pretty damn good.

Scealta_saol · 27-08-2011 01:05PM

If it could be done then Africa could potentially rake in millions of dollars/euro (whatever currency they like) right?? then they would spend all their money on buying arms and not enough on feeding/housing/educating their people yay

could conditions be set in that they can't buy weapons with the money?

but if it could be done then it's a great idea!

RichieC · 27-08-2011 01:07PM

get them on the moon even better, no clouds! no eyesore.

DoneDL · 27-08-2011 01:09PM

Yep fit lots of solar photovoltic panels that generate reasonably free energy and then stage the world cup.

Amhran Nua · 27-08-2011 01:11PM

Scealta_saol wrote: »

If it could be done then Africa could potentially rake in millions of dollars/euro (whatever currency they like) right?? then they would spend all their money on buying arms and not enough on feeding/housing/educating their people yay

could conditions be set in that they can't buy weapons with the money?

I'm pretty confident those won't be long term problems - see any similarities between the maps on this page and this page? Wheels are turning, and the agenda is centuries long.

Cover the sahara desert with solar panels!

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