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Getting Back To My Best

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Sorry about the bad day in the office mate :(

    What you need is vaggas 3 step plan tm

    a) A rake of pints on Saturday,
    b) Meno telling you what you have done wrong and how to fix it,
    c) Mr Slow [and co!!] winding you up that Meno is now going to win your bet!

    My 3 step plan is guarenteed to return you to previous levels of motivation, and you will easily do 3 hours :pac:

    That's solid advice there. I like it :D
    Ha Meno doesnt tell me what I'm doing wrong, its the other way round. Been in this game too long for that to happen. As regards the bet hasnt Meno given up on 3:10 since Midlands? We could mutually cancel it if neither of us are going for our original target.

    No, the 3'10 dream is back on for the minute (pending a decent run in the 10 miler at the weekend). FWIW I think it would be a good idea to race the 10 miler at the weekend yourself, get a bit of confidence back on the long races...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Brianderunner


    menoscemo wrote: »
    That's solid advice there. I like it :D



    No, the 3'10 dream is back on for the minute (pending a decent run in the 10 miler at the weekend). FWIW I think it would be a good idea to race the 10 miler at the weekend yourself, get a bit of confidence back on the long races...

    6 days after emptying the tank yesterday though? Surely a good block of training would be better instead of spending all of next week recovering from it, nailing the key training runs will give me confidence in itself. Another poor run on Saturday and I would look into doing a Shels on it :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭TheRoadRunner


    6 days after emptying the tank yesterday though? Surely a good block of training would be better instead of spending all of next week recovering from it, nailing the key training runs will give me confidence in itself. Another poor run on Saturday and I would look into doing a Shels on it :)

    +1 At this stage I wouldn't bother racing. Four solid weeks followed by 2 week taper and you'll be laughing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    6 days after emptying the tank yesterday though? Surely a good block of training would be better instead of spending all of next week recovering from it, nailing the key training runs will give me confidence in itself. Another poor run on Saturday and I would look into doing a Shels on it :)

    Hay :eek:
    Your in far better shape for the sub 3 than I would have been for a 3:30. One bad run last week just needs to be forgotten and a few good session and you will be feeling good again. Think your plan is solid just get your head right and don't over thing. 2:59 is just another number like 3:12 etc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,554 ✭✭✭Mr Slow


    Sorry about the bad day in the office mate :(

    What you need is vaggas 3 step plan tm

    a) A rake of pints on Saturday,
    b) Meno telling you what you have done wrong and how to fix it,
    c) Mr Slow [and co!!] winding you up that Meno is now going to win your bet!

    My 3 step plan is guarenteed to return you to previous levels of motivation, and you will easily do 3 hours :pac:

    Since when am I the villain?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 711 ✭✭✭cwgatling


    Unlucky Brian. Just an off-day, nothing to worry about. Stick it down as 13.1 at PMP (pretty much) and move on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,556 ✭✭✭chinguetti


    I wouldn't race the FD10, leave the Garmin at home and just run by feel. Take the pressure off yourself and remember why you like to run.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,554 ✭✭✭Mr Slow


    chinguetti wrote: »
    I wouldn't race the FD10, leave the Garmin at home and just run by feel. Take the pressure off yourself and remember why you like to run.

    Brilliant advice!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Brianderunner


    chinguetti wrote: »
    I wouldn't race the FD10, leave the Garmin at home and just run by feel. Take the pressure off yourself and remember why you like to run.

    I'd love to do that but i'll only get sucked into racing that way. Want to get through the 18 miler on Sunday and i'll need to be relatively fresh for that so MP it is. I could probably break 63 but it wouldnt be much use to me at this stage.

    Mon 15th Aug
    , 5 mls recovery in the heath in 43'50 (8'46). Popped 2 anti-inflammatories (diclofenac) before bed last night and they seem to have done the trick, very little fatigue in the legs. I better not abuse them cause they're prescription only in the british isles (over the counter in barca) and they can damage your liver, also they dont go with alcohol as i found out after the DCM last year!

    Was google searching foam rollers in London today (needed a new one) and i stumbled across a forum where someone said "i use the plastic water pipes they're using to replace London's water mains" which is what my company does. I headed down the yard at work and helped myself to a foam roller shaped piece from the scrapyard and omg, wrapped in a towel it really hits the spot, miles better than a foam roller :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,556 ✭✭✭chinguetti


    I'd love to do that but i'll only get sucked into racing that way. Want to get through the 18 miler on Sunday and i'll need to be relatively fresh for that so MP it is.

    If you start slowly (7.30 pace) for the first 2 miles, then 7.20 for the next 2 etc, you will enjoy the last 4 miles as you pass out loads of people without racing and its a great thing for the confidence. Just bring a stopwatch.

    Try it for one race, if it doesn't work, you lose nothing and will still be fresh for the 18 on Sunday. I do it in most races over 10km and am constantly surprised how fast i could go on so little training. It will never work for a marathon though which is an awful pity. MacMillian has me down for a 3.06 marathon but it ain't possible on my legs.

    If its a load of cobblers after you try it, you can tell everyone i'm full of it - although most probably think that already;)


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    I'd love to do that but i'll only get sucked into racing that way. Want to get through the 18 miler on Sunday and i'll need to be relatively fresh for that so MP it is. I could probably break 63 but it wouldnt be much use to me at this stage.

    Mon 15th Aug
    , 5 mls recovery in the heath in 43'50 (8'46). Popped 2 anti-inflammatories (diclofenac) before bed last night and they seem to have done the trick, very little fatigue in the legs. I better not abuse them cause they're prescription only in the british isles (over the counter in barca) and they can damage your liver, also they dont go with alcohol as i found out after the DCM last year!

    Was google searching foam rollers in London today (needed a new one) and i stumbled across a forum where someone said "i use the plastic water pipes they're using to replace London's water mains" which is what my company does. I headed down the yard at work and helped myself to a foam roller shaped piece from the scrapyard and omg, wrapped in a towel it really hits the spot, miles better than a foam roller :)

    PVC pipe? You shouldn't even be wrapping it in a towel you wuss.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Brianderunner


    chinguetti wrote: »
    If you start slowly (7.30 pace) for the first 2 miles, then 7.20 for the next 2 etc, you will enjoy the last 4 miles as you pass out loads of people without racing and its a great thing for the confidence. Just bring a stopwatch.

    Try it for one race, if it doesn't work, you lose nothing and will still be fresh for the 18 on Sunday. I do it in most races over 10km and am constantly surprised how fast i could go on so little training. It will never work for a marathon though which is an awful pity. MacMillian has me down for a 3.06 marathon but it ain't possible on my legs.

    If its a load of cobblers after you try it, you can tell everyone i'm full of it - although most probably think that already;)

    Maybe i'll think about it. I've taken the p!ss quite a few times the last 12 months in races. Using a 10k as a recovery run, have you ever heard the like. It's strangely enjoyable thought and once you do it once it gets easier and easier to do. 6 weeks out now though, every single run i do should be Berlin orientated and nothing else.
    PVC pipe? You shouldn't even be wrapping it in a towel you wuss.

    Polyethylene actually. I hear you should wrap anything long, round and hard in something or you could do serious damage. At least this one won't be going soft and will be ready for action at all times wink.gif

    Also some of us have less body fat than others so we have less of a cushion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Brianderunner


    Tues 16th Aug, 6.5 mls easy usual route in 54'29 (8'23). 8 x 100m strides after followed by 30 mins core and one legged squats. 7 mls total. Pitch black when i finished at 9pm, winter is coming, not good. I'll miss these outdoor core sessions when the cold weather comes.

    Surprised by how well i've recovered from Sunday. When you think about it, it was essentially a 7 mile tempo run followed by 6 mls steady so it shouldnt have floored me. I should be ok for a session tomorrow. Torn between a tempo or 6 x 1 mile. I might skip the club sessions until Berlin, they're great training but not marathon specific and thats what i need now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Brianderunner


    Weds 17th Aug, plan for tonight was, (taken from letsrun forum and i've posted these workouts before on here);

    6 x 1 mile @ 110% of marathon pace with 400 jog recovery. It is recommended that this workout be done on a track or flat road course. This workout is a classic speed workout for marathon runners. This workout improves the bodies efficiency (aerobic capacity) as well as it ability to process and get rid of lactate. This increased efficiency enhances the bodies ability to handle, remain relaxed at, and run efficiently at the slightly slower pace of marathon race pace. Studies have found little benefit to running at more than 10% faster than goal race pace, so if able additional reps or a shorter recovery should be used rather than increasing the pace of this workout.

    The whole session went as planned, 2 mls w/u down to the Regents Park outer circle and away I went. Recoveries were all around 2'20-2'25 for the 400m. 4th and 6th reps the toughest as they're slightly uphill. Good session, probably had another 10 secs per mile in me if I had to. The 2 ml w/d had a junk miles feel to it but they all count.

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/107351450

    One thing stands out a mile for me here; this workout says that there's little point in running more than 10% faster than MP and these workouts were designed by the best marathon coaches in the world. So does this mean that anything faster is a waste of energy as regards the marathon? Interesting, worthy of its own thread possibly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Brianderunner


    Thurs 18th Aug, 5 mls recovery/easy in 43'15 (8'39). Rest day/travel to Dublin tomorrow. The 10 mile plus the 18 LSR on Sunday will round off a solid week.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    Hey Brian just catching up on the log firstly congrats on the 5k pb...glad i did not have a bet on that race:) I agree with what most people are saying regarding the mental toughness side and i know we have spoken about this before albeit full of beer:)
    Personally given you're speed i think you are mad doing marathons at your age when you could be working on taking chunks off the pb's in the shorter races. Marathons will be there in years to come. You are in for Berlin anyways and i would still stay sub 3 can be achieved but a bit of HTFU will be required and i think you need to have 2 key sessions ticked off. Two more long runs with mp miles thrown in without quitting no matter how much it hurts is required. I think you know it's all in your head!!
    How about we do the mp miles in FD 10 miler on Saturday and tack on 8 miles straight after (dependent on how fresh my legs are) to make up one of those long runs you need to get under the belt?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭TheRoadRunner


    Hey Brian just catching up on the log firstly congrats on the 5k pb...glad i did not have a bet on that race:) I agree with what most people are saying regarding the mental toughness side and i know we have spoken about this before albeit full of beer:)
    Personally given you're speed i think you are mad doing marathons at your age when you could be working on taking chunks off the pb's in the shorter races. Marathons will be there in years to come. You are in for Berlin anyways and i would still stay sub 3 can be achieved but a bit of HTFU will be required and i think you need to have 2 key sessions ticked off. Two more long runs with mp miles thrown in without quitting no matter how much it hurts is required. I think you know it's all in your head!!
    How about we do the mp miles in FD 10 miler on Saturday and tack on 8 miles straight after (dependent on how fresh my legs are) to make up one of those long runs you need to get under the belt?

    +1 A lot of sense here. Why not do the 18 as suggested with Jb. Better to get a quality 18 in on the Saturday especially if you are boozing Saturday night! Could even do 4 before 10 @ mp and 4 after. You'd have company as well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Brianderunner


    Hey Brian just catching up on the log firstly congrats on the 5k pb...glad i did not have a bet on that race:) I agree with what most people are saying regarding the mental toughness side and i know we have spoken about this before albeit full of beer:)
    Personally given you're speed i think you are mad doing marathons at your age when you could be working on taking chunks off the pb's in the shorter races. Marathons will be there in years to come. You are in for Berlin anyways and i would still stay sub 3 can be achieved but a bit of HTFU will be required and i think you need to have 2 key sessions ticked off. Two more long runs with mp miles thrown in without quitting no matter how much it hurts is required. I think you know it's all in your head!!
    How about we do the mp miles in FD 10 miler on Saturday and tack on 8 miles straight after (dependent on how fresh my legs are) to make up one of those long runs you need to get under the belt?

    I'll admit my heart isn't in marathons at the moment. I'm pot committed to berlin as you say though. The caliber of athletes i'm running with in races gets worse and worse the further i go its hard to ignore. Its just that I found marathoning aged 22, after 13 years of T&F, while many others on here found it much later. I needed a change then and I feel like i need a change now too. Will have a proper lash at Berlin and see how I feel then after.

    What makes you think your MP is 68 mins? :) Yeah that sounds like a plan. Although 8 mls after seems a bit much and junk mileage territory. That being said I can't see myself doing much beforehand as I'm cycling down to the race from DCU, even though TRR's plan is a good one. I'll see you around the start area anyway and we'll decide then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    I think you need to put your heart into the Marathon for the next 6 weeks. Listen to TheRoadRunner aka Mr tough love . Do your 18 miles on Sat, have afew beers and then no more drinking until after berlin.
    Sit back and watch a few big city marathon on youtube, forget about 5k, 10ks

    The only 10ks you need to think about is 42:3x splits you need to hit in berlin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    I'll admit my heart isn't in marathons at the moment. I'm pot committed to berlin as you say though. The caliber of athletes i'm running with in races gets worse and worse the further i go its hard to ignore. Its just that I found marathoning aged 22, after 13 years of T&F, while many others on here found it much later. I needed a change then and I feel like i need a change now too. Will have a proper lash at Berlin and see how I feel then after.

    What makes you think your MP is 68 mins? :) Yeah that sounds like a plan. Although 8 mls after seems a bit much and junk mileage territory. That being said I can't see myself doing much beforehand as I'm cycling down to the race from DCU, even though TRR's plan is a good one. I'll see you around the start area anyway and we'll decide then.

    68 minutes would be slightly faster than pmp for me but if i cannot run 10 mile in that time then it would be unlikely i could run a 3:10 marathon. Not getting too caught up with the race tomorrow anyway as i still have the IM in the legs.
    I would have thought the 8 miles after is the exact opposite of junk miles in your case as you need to learn to suffer a bit on the long runs and that is most likely to happen after 10 mp miles in the legs along with the lack of long runs in your training so far. It is all about the long runs from here to the start line in Berlin.
    See ye in the morning.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,983 ✭✭✭TheRoadRunner


    Think about doing the 18 tomorrow. I reckon the 18 miles you had planned for Sunday will be more junk (post beer) then anything you do after/before the PMP miles tomorrow. Then do a nice recovery run Sunday.

    How far is it from DCU to the park ~4 miles? Jog down then jog home!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Brianderunner


    Think about doing the 18 tomorrow. I reckon the 18 miles you had planned for Sunday will be more junk (post beer) then anything you do after/before the PMP miles tomorrow. Then do a nice recovery run Sunday.

    How far is it from DCU to the park ~4 miles? Jog down then jog home!

    Its 5 miles exactly to the race start from my bro's house. That could work i suppose, and i can't just hop into the first tube station i see when the going gets tough :) Running down the NCR would be good practice for DCM pacing anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭metamorphosis


    If you're taking a few miles on after, i might be game


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Brianderunner


    If you're taking a few miles on after, i might be game

    Half planning to go with TRR's idea of run down, race and back. Then cycle to Ryans (on your new bike) after, i'll see in the morning.

    You'll be needed in a weeks time to get me through my LSR in Limerick :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Brianderunner


    shels4ever wrote: »
    I think you need to put your heart into the Marathon for the next 6 weeks. Listen to TheRoadRunner aka Mr tough love . Do your 18 miles on Sat, have afew beers and then no more drinking until after berlin.
    Sit back and watch a few big city marathon on youtube, forget about 5k, 10ks

    The only 10ks you need to think about is 42:3x splits you need to hit in berlin.

    No drinking until after berlin, i'm sure that'll happen given that i'm in Ireland the next 3 weekends ;)

    I'll watch the marathons from the worlds in Daegu, if i'm not inspired i'm blaming you. 42:3x sounds bloody fast for the last 10k.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    All the above sounds like a good idea run the 5 in and tack 3 on after the race. The 18 miler won't be happening on sunday anyway. I'm 99%out of the race tomorrow and Sunday.
    My cold has moved down to my chest and I'm pretty sure I have an infection. I'll just be up to watch tomorrow and come to ryans for a bit of food and maybe a pint afterwards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,049 ✭✭✭Brianderunner


    menoscemo wrote: »
    All the above sounds like a good idea run the 5 in and tack 3 on after the race. The 18 miler won't be happening on sunday anyway. I'm 99%out of the race tomorrow and Sunday.
    My cold has moved down to my chest and I'm pretty sure I have an infection. I'll just be up to watch tomorrow and come to ryans for a bit of food and maybe a pint afterwards.

    Ah sh!t, sorry to hear that. Hope it doesnt impact on your Berlin training. When i had it in January i got away with easy runs but the tempo i tried nearly killed me, 4 or 5 days it took to shift.

    The 18 was always going to be a grind on Sunday anyway, half glad its cancelled. Fine yeah i'll be back in Ryans by about 1.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Ah sh!t, sorry to hear that. Hope it doesnt impact on your Berlin training. When i had it in January i got away with easy runs but the tempo i tried nearly killed me, 4 or 5 days it took to shift.

    The 18 was always going to be a grind on Sunday anyway, half glad its cancelled. Fine yeah i'll be back in Ryans by about 1.

    Luckily I have a week spare in my training programme, so I'll be using it next week. I knew there was something up on Tuesday when the 5 x 600m felt so hard, but thought it would be shifted by now. Sadly today it is at it's worst. I'm desperately trying to get an antibiotic but no appointments at my GP. I don't want to have to wait until monday for one :mad:


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    menoscemo wrote: »
    Luckily I have a week spare in my training programme, so I'll be using it next week. I knew there was something up on Tuesday when the 5 x 600m felt so hard, but thought it would be shifted by now. Sadly today it is at it's worst. I'm desperately trying to get an antibiotic but no appointments at my GP. I don't want to have to wait until monday for one :mad:

    I have a rolling antibiotic prescription. One use of it is yours for €200. :cool:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    I managed to nab an antibiotic over the phone to my GP. Thanks all the same. Only 10 for the prescription. It almost Sounds like you were trying to rip me off? :-)


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