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Rise of the Fourth Reich, how Germany is using the financial crisis to conquer Europe

1356

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭Wicklowrider


    I don't care as long as we can hide behind Britain like last time

    Who is this "We" that abides in after hours?

    My family lost good men in WW2. Worse, good men came back ruined.I can walk down the council street my father is from and point out a lot of homes where men left and served in 8th army & RAF.That street is far from unique in this country. My brother lives next door to a family whose father fought through Africa and then through Italy and was one of the 1st men into the death camps - he practically fought the war from start to finish.

    Why don't you just speak for your own?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 269 ✭✭Jam


    They can't do a worse job than we already did. Sometimes I wonder if we, as a nation, are incapable of ruling ourselves well. Talk all the ****e you want about the Brits or the Germans, but at least they can fill in a pothole.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭Colmo52


    We could join Britain again instead...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭onemorechance


    Frederick Forsyth wrote an article on this about a month ago in the Sunday Indo.

    New deal is a charter for the Fourth Reich

    The latest EU bailout for Greece is a master stroke that will make servants of us all, says Frederick Forsyth

    Sunday July 24 2011
    IT IS not being widely reported yet, but the document the European powers signed in Berlin last Thursday is in fact the founding charter of the Fourth German Reich.

    The ordinary Germans at street level are only protesting because they do not yet realise that. But what has been achieved is a thousand miles beyond a second financial bailout for Greece and it affects the Irish because the land of Brian Boru is perfectly equipped to become the second colony.

    This is the way it works. Over a decade, Greece, after joining the eurozone, while not exactly allowed to print its own money, went on an insane spending spree. So did Ireland.

    Spending miles beyond what it was earning, Greece, to keep on spending, began borrowing. And it was all so easy. In order to suit Germany, the interest rate was way down below two per cent, making all that borrowed money 'cheap.' The same applied to Ireland.

    At least the Irish never stopped working. Indeed they created the Celtic Tiger. The Greeks just created the Hellenic holiday camp. When the bubble burst (and all bubbles burst) Greece had debts it could not even begin to pay back. Hence the panic attending the impossible-to-avoid Greek default. So far so stupid. And all the above the Sunday Independent's readers will already know.

    The problem was, Greece simply could not be allowed to default. Those debts had to be paid: somehow and by someone. Why? Because the euro is a massively flawed structure and always was. But like the emperor's new clothes, no one was allowed to say so.

    Also disallowed was pointing out that Greece was not alone; and if it went belly up the whole woollen sleeve of pretence was going to unravel. Hence the first €100bn 'bailout' a few weeks ago, largely funded by wealthy Germany.

    Now, let us get two things straight. The Germans do not give a monkey's buttock about the Greeks anyway. So 'bailing out Greece' which was what the papers were told to call it, and which they obediently did, was a misnomer.

    The money was going (and still is) to all those banks who made the insane loans to Greece, and most of them are (surprise surprise) French and German banks.

    The alternative was for the euro to unravel from Athens to Dublin to Lisbon, to Madrid to Rome, costing not billions but trillions and destroying any chance of the European superstate in the process. So a second €100bn 'bailout' was called for and the panic level rose to a crescendo. That was when the street-level Germans and the British government put their feet down.

    But it could not be avoided, so eventually a deal was cut. Germany would stump up most of the second mega-sum; Chancellor Angela Merkel would face the rage of her electorate; but there would be a quid pro quo that even the Germans would accept once they understood it. In effect, Germany would run the economies of the eurozones weaklings to make sure it never happened again. Remember the old adage: he who controls the economy controls the country.

    In such a situation the controlling country is called the imperial power and the controlled one is called the colony. The Brits know a bit about colonies; let's face it, we had a few. Two hundred years ago keeping control might mean throwing in a few redcoats. Nowadays the threat of ruin is more than enough.

    Mind you, Germany's new hegemony will not be presented like that. Much too crude. True, but crude.

    In effect the powers have created the European Financial Stability Facility, which sounds lovely. It has been endowed so far with €440bn. Quite soon, within a year, it will develop into the European Monetary Fund, endowed with a 'float' of about €1 trillion, which sounds even lovelier. But with sums like that there is always a catch.

    Germany is not Father Christmas and would never dream of putting up such sums either out of brotherly generosity or even to save the EU superstate. It will do it for two reasons.

    First, the vast majority is never intended to be disbursed. It will simply be moved from the German Federal Bank to the European Central Bank; a paper transaction between two banks about 500 yards apart in Frankfurt.

    Secondly, it will be said that this huge treasure is an available float to reassure the banks (ie the money markets) which it will, that they will all be covered if such a thing as the last two years should ever happen again. Therein lies the hidden sting. The German's intend to ensure that it never happens again. Ever.

    And there is only one way to ensure that. Run the joint. So for the weaklings the deal will be put with silken ruthlessness. If you want to remain in the EU you must remain in the eurozone.

    To do that you must sign up to the European Monetary Fund. This guarantees that you do not go bust, but it has rules. The first is that you hand over to wiser heads the running of your economy.

    You will hand it over to the EMF. But who will really control the EMF? Brussels? No, Berlin. It will be called fiscal (or economic) union but that will only mask Germany's mastery.

    Many historians overlook a simple fact about both world wars. They were not just about marching infantry (the first) or rolling tanks (the second). In complete parallel to German aggression in 1914 and 1939 were immensely detailed plans from Berlin's economics ministry for the full unification of Europe's economies. But with strict terms.

    Germany does not want your competition in manufactured products. It has enough of its own and more. It needs to export the surplus in huge quantities to keep those factories rolling and the electorate employed and happy. That is best achieved by client states.

    It also wants a constant stream of cheap food to fill those 80 million German bellies, the other half of the 'happy electorate' equation. Both are the jobs of colonies: to provide cheap labour, raw materials, agricultural produce and a ready market for the trinkets.

    So the arc from Greece (south-east) via Italy (south-central) to Spain/Portugal (south-west) and Ireland (due west) will have to be deindustrialised to fill the role. Actually, it is well under way. All five countries have for some time been undergoing slow de-industrialisation. Berlin's final control of this was sealed last Thursday. And, of course, the EMF will not only fix your borrowing rates to ensure you never go mad again, but also your tax rates.

    Now, if there is one thing that has really irritated Germany it has been Ireland's tiny corporation taxes which have drawn billions in investments into Ireland. That is competition, and not the job of a colony. So your taxes will have to rise.

    If you disbelieve me, glance at the helpless George Papandreou down there in Athens. A premier in name only. In truth a puppet now, a regional bailiff doing the bidding of others far away.

    How ironic that what two years ago seemed possibly to be the death knell of the eurozone has been transformed by German money into the guarantee of the super-state. For Ireland, membership is beckoning ... but only as a servant.

    The British, I am surer now than for years, will not go down that road. We no longer want to boss anyone around, but we will not be bullied either. Between a locked-in Europe of forelock-tuggers and the wide open seas, we will, like our fathers, pick the oceans.

    Frederick Forsyth is the author of 'The Day of the Jackal', 'The Odessa File', 'The Fourth Protocol' and other bestsellers. and is patron of Better Off Out, a group calling for Britain's withdrawal from the EU.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,870 ✭✭✭Corsendonk


    This is AH its the Twitter of Boards, no one reads a post past a 100 words.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I'm largely with Forsyth on this one and have been since Maastricht, the treaties that followed just crossed the T's and dotted the I's IMH. But the europhiles cryed nay. "Oh no it's not like this, you stupid europhobe you. Surely you see the benefit of being able to order wine with my schoolboy French and a side order of self satisfaction and pay for it in our shared currency". Bollocks. I've said similar about the low interest rates set by Germany and France and the effect that had an our already heated economy. Heated it may have been, but cheap credit turned up the gas and no mistake and took our ability to ease off said gas anyway. But no, no doubt the same europhiles blinkered by their own worldview will still cry nay and clamour for other explanations that take the beady eye from the EU. A surefire sign of this blinkered thinking is to completely absolve the Euros effect. Not even a millisecond of doubt will come from them.

    No doubt charges of europhobe will be leveled again at anyone suggesting this. Among the more crass anyway. The less crass will witter back and forth in ever decreasing circles of sophistry. They do seem to miss the distinctions or render them in black and white. You're either for or against Europe. Nope I'm not against Europe. I want to be in Europe. I am against their version of Europe, a Europe run by interests centred on two nations, but mostly one, a Europe run and overrun with too many unelected and powerful civil servants, a Europe asking me and my fellow country men and women and the other men and women of Europe to join while starting on the path of eroding all our local and sovereign directions. A Europe holding the carrot and stick of financial rescue from a calamity it had much to do with*

    The EEC I liked the EC ditto, the EU was a step too far. One not easy to step back from.



    *I do not absolve the morons in power here, nor the people who went mad thinking they were millionaires on a taximans salary. I have sympathy for the latter. Many people out there are not the wisest in money matters and certainly not the wisest in bigger financial matters. Those tasked with being wise should have legislated for the unwise, but turned out to be dribbling idiots themselves. Corrupt dribbling idiots across pretty much all party lines. Cowardly dribbling idiots to boot. When an electorate ticks no, they mena no, not "eh well maybe, but ah sure try again in under a year to make sure they come back with the right box ticked". I wonder if they'd voted yes would they have been equally keen on a second ballot? Hey we were lucky and one of the very few nations who even have referendums on these matters. I wonder will that still be there in 20 years time?

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Where Hitler failed by military means to conquer Europe, modern Germans are succeeding ....

    Thread godwined on first post = fail


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 423 ✭✭stone roses


    if you put a frog into boiling water it will jump out , but if you put a frog into cold water and turn up the heat, over time it will boil to death and die! rippit, rippit, R.I.P

    the germans are now turning up the heat once again and soon it will be to late! this is not about ireland anymore, its about germany winning the world cup for the next 80yrs and in the mean time we have that small matter of conquering europe buy financial means , if i was told 10yrs ago about whats happening today, id a pissed myself and sent ya back to dundrum!! i wish it was a joke but its as real as it gets and thats the scary part!! BUY THE WAY I HOPE GERMANY DO WIN THE WORLD CUP LOLS :-)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kev_ps3


    Colmo52 wrote: »
    We could join Britain again instead...

    Many west-brits wet dream:rolleyes:

    For us normal Patriotic Irishmen any foreign power in Ireland is unthinkable, whether it be the EU, UK or US.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,490 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Cool_CM wrote: »
    In fairness, a lot of Irish people were quite happy to use German savings in the form of credit to buy their holiday homes and new cars etc. back in the day. Then when the German ambassador commented (quite accurately) on our new found lack of appreciation for money everybody went apesh*t.
    You can't give out about losing sovereignty when it was something that was gradually sold off bit by bit whilst everybody was too busy being distracted by shiny things.


    To be fair not 'everyone' went ape****, the now very expensively pensioned-off patriot Dermot Ahern and Presidential candidate Gay Mitchell went 'ape****'. A bit.

    The German Ambassador, of course was correct.
    Junior ministers (what a joke) on more than Merkel...
    I like zebra's suggestion of a constitutional block on casually lumping private debt on the public purse especially by barristers and teachers and publicans and farmers and anonymous civil servants and our 'partners' in Europe, minus the hanging part. I mean they won't need to be hung if there is a block on that sort of carryon now will they?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,244 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    What makes you think Germany wants Europe? What would it do with it? No, don't say "lebensraum", that was a long time ago ...

    edit: the Forsyth piece talks about client states and natural resources ... I don't see how Ireland (or Greece) can fulfil either of those roles. He's trying to shoehorn Ireland in to his conspiracy theory, just because of the financial situation.

    Government resting upon the will and universal suffrage of the people has no anchorage except in the people's intelligence.

    — Grover Cleveland



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Kev_ps3 wrote: »
    Many west-brits wet dream:rolleyes:

    For us normal Patriotic Irishmen any foreign power in Ireland is unthinkable, whether it be the EU, UK or US.

    I think the "west-brit" obsession that you have is hiding the fact that you'll soon be "peripheral European". Greetings from the capital, by the way.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭Stompbox


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Title - "financial crisis"
    Thread - "discipline"

    Which is it?

    The title says 'how Germany is using the financial crisis' not 'how Germany is using financial crisis'.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    They should be resisted at all costs. No EU flag will be going next to my Ulster banner anyway.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Without Germany and the EU this country would still be a borderline third world, podunk backwater.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 857 ✭✭✭FetchTheGin




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 888 ✭✭✭cosanostra


    I wonder how many times we'll have to vote on this when ever it comes!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 269 ✭✭Jam


    Kev_ps3 wrote: »
    Many west-brits wet dream:rolleyes:

    For us normal Patriotic Irishmen any foreign power in Ireland is unthinkable, whether it be the EU, UK or US.

    I always find your viewpoint interesting. The patriotism. I would be pretty damn sure that no "west-brit" would want this island. Economically it a money-sink, no natural resources to speak of, sub-par infrastructure, and a climate that's even more miserable. What kind of financial, political, religious, historical or cultural reason would anybody in Britan want Ireland?

    Who would 'west-brits' be be anyway? The Welsh?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 423 ✭✭stone roses


    Without Germany and the EU this country would still be a borderline third world, podunk backwater.


    this is a great country if you dont like it leave, its not the country its the fools running it!! we are in the top 5 countrys in the world to live in 2011 poll, ireland is a great nation and so is its people 40millon passports around the world


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,752 ✭✭✭markesmith


    I haven't a drop of German blood in me, and I find that Daily Mail headline deeply offensive.
    this is a great country if you dont like it leave, its not the country its the fools running it!! we are in the top 5 countrys in the world to live in 2011 poll, ireland is a great nation and so is its people 40millon passports around the world

    We deserve the government we have, you can't just pigeonhole the government/politicians as "fools". Probably why there are so many passports around the world, a lot of the best & brightest took your advice.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭AhSureTisGrand


    this is a great country if you dont like it leave, its not the country its the fools running it!! we are in the top 5 countrys in the world to live in 2011 poll, ireland is a great nation and so is its people 40millon passports around the world

    Your post is ostensibly arguing against the post it quotes, yet it fails to contradict said post anywhere. I'm impressed


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    this is a great country if you dont like it leave, its not the country its the fools running it!! we are in the top 5 countrys in the world to live in 2011 poll, ireland is a great nation and so is its people 40millon passports around the world

    So you're saying that Ireland would be exactly the same as it is now without the development money we received from the EU?

    This country owes a huge amount of our success to the EU, of which Germany are a big part.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 95 ✭✭Big_Evil


    Small bit of perspective here: the Daily Mail did the usual blah, where they took something with an element of truth in it, and made it sound mad.

    Forsyth was giving a similar scenario, but the peripheral EU states thing is a bit mad too.

    In my mind, the Euro was a half baked idea to begin with - you cant expect to have a single currency across multiple countries, try to centrally regulate interest rates etc...and then let the other countries do whatever the hell they liked - basically Greece totally went mad, Ireland lost the run of themselves etc...

    What is being proposed now is coming 10 years too late - should have been done back when the Euro was proposed and more importantly, when the Irish, Greeks, and Portageuse had some leverage.

    We now have none: like it or not, the Germans are coming. It'll take a few years, but they are coming. We have a few years to decide:

    1. Default in Argentina style, pull out of the Euro, reintroduce the punt, and go it alone. We will still have soverignty.
    2. Vote Yes in the referendum, and welcome our Aryan overlords - oh, and have no soverignty
    3. Look to join the Commenwealth. Two fingers to the Hun, avoid the disaster of going on a solo run, and team up with the UK who would never in a million years agree to fiscal union with Germany
    4. Same as two only we take up arms (most likely hurleys), and attempt to beat the crap out of our new Aryan overlords in true Junior B Hurling style.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 423 ✭✭stone roses


    Jam wrote: »
    I always find your viewpoint interesting. The patriotism. I would be pretty damn sure that no "west-brit" would want this island. Economically it a money-sink, no natural resources to speak of, sub-par infrastructure, and a climate that's even more miserable. What kind of financial, political, religious, historical or cultural reason would anybody in Britan want Ireland?

    Who would 'west-brits' be be anyway? The Welsh?

    hahahah roits england last week!!! "good one you nearly got me tere"!! i love a good laugh, id have ireland over any country in the wrold and i lived in austrailia for many years, germany is not interested in ireland its just trying to save its self!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭TimTim


    Third time's a charm I guess then.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Without Germany and the EU this country would still be a borderline third world, podunk backwater.
    Bollocks. Or not quite anyway and with respect M this line oft trotted out really grinds my gears TBH.

    Without the common market, EEC and EC? Yes. All good. With the EU and what that became? No. With the Euro and even more European centralised integration? Definitely not. Who are our biggest trading partners? Are they in the Eurozone? Where do our industrial investment money come from? Look at our farming sector. The common market made a major and welcome difference, ditto for the EEC. What's our farming sector like today? Sugar beet anyone? Watch what happens when our corp tax gets attacked. Again. Dumb on the part of the central EU as we defo won't be able to pay anyone back now.

    The problem as I see it were and are the banks. Even though the horse has long bolted we should have let anglo fail. But Lenehan et al didn't. Who were they taking advice from if at all? Bankers. Yea as if bankers are going to advise burning banks. Like turkeys, heavily self interested and invested turkeys are going to vote for christmas. Then we had the euro coming in and the Portuguese and Italian and Greek bankers were busy cooking the books to get a good exchange rate. We may have been bad but we didn't do that. And where were these same experts holding court to this day when these cooked books were handed up and approved?

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭kincsem


    I'm too lazy to read the whole thread

    Conspiracy Theories
    >


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Where Hitler failed by military means to conquer Europe, modern Germans are succeeding through trade and financial discipline.

    http://i51.tinypic.com/2805l06.jpg

    And all those that foolishly voted Lisbon couldn't see this coming. :p

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2026840/European-debt-summit-Germany-using-financial-crisis-conquer-Europe.html


    Right so, we'll all just go on the dole and depend on the state from cradle to grave, like your lads seem to eschew :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭Tayla


    prinz wrote: »
    Yup they have loads of experience in 'taking care' of people alright. They care so much about its people that they won't even call it a crime if you bump off some of them in cold blood.

    Oh lookee, now you are in favour of changing the constitution it seems. I never would have guessed.


    You might have your opinion on that but I have mine and I don't think it's relevant. What about all the people who will commit suicide because the country has no hope? Fianna Fail have caused more suffering than Sinn Fein have ever caused.

    Yep damn right, where did I say I would never be in favour of changing the constitution?? I said I wouldn't be in favour of them changing it to give Merkel/Hitler and Sarkozy more power over us.

    I would of course be in favour of the constitution being changed to bring treason charges against those who brought odious debt on the country.

    How the hell could you not be in favour of that??


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kev_ps3


    Without Germany and the EU this country would still be a borderline third world, podunk backwater.

    Absolute nonsense. Its the Brits that turned us into a third world backwater, the EU lent us money and caused the Celtic tiger boom and bust.


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