Favourite/Most-Hated Progamer

I don't know enough about play styles to say I prefer a particular player. I do like watching players who multitask really well, drops+defending+map control+great macro+decision making is great to watch. The recent Korean TvTs at MLG were great for this.

But any player/streamer that commentates on his own games I watch, I play Terran so Trump's stream on TL is pretty good as he talks alot about particular game situations, builds and strategies.

In terms of commentators Tastosis obv, I like InControl too as he combines reasonable strat analysis with jokes. Kind of gone off Day9 as a tournament caster, he talks weird and trys too hard to be professional/business like. His dailys are still great though, the most recent Funday Monday was hilarious.

I'm really liking sen atm, for a player i don't like I'd have to say either Idra or Incontrol mainly because both of them act like tools a lot of the time.

favourite player: idra, ret, and naniwa by far the most talented and skillful foreigners
least liked: cruncher, most gimmeky ****ty player iv ever seen. only got to where he is in sc2 by abusing the protoss lol-free-win-ball.

I'd have to say my favourite is Destiny, just cause he's fookin hilarious, like come on, 4 infestor hit squad?

don't have any hated ones, don't know enough.

Too many favorites to mention, but maybe Jinro for going to korea from the start and quietly outperforming all the other foreigners (well, outperforming the loudmothed one anyway ) before his slump started. Also, hes irish so hes the nearest thing to a home grown gosu that we have. Pity its all going so badly for him now.

MC, Whitera, ret, huk, and a few others would always be favorites too.


Least favorite? Well theres only one possibility really. Its all very well to be arrogant and ironicly dismissive of everybody else, but when ALL YOU DO is bm people very publicly and then lose to them, or whine CONSTANTLY about how underpowered your race is and watch a member of your race win the GSL twice in two seasons, then your name must be Idra and i enjoy watching you lose.

ESPCIALLY when its by cruncher. And he outplayed you. and he subtly bms you and a meme is born.

Favourites:
The main ones would be Naniwa, WhiteRa, Tyler, Thorzain. Nani & Thorzain cause they're total beasts and WhiteRa & Tyler because I like their styles of play, just wish Tyler would practice harder.

Least favourites:
Probably Idra I guess. At first I disliked him for his attitude then I liked him cause he was really really good, but now he's kinda mediocre and still acts like he knows everything about the game. He's pretty much a total hypocrite, funny how his stance on zerg when they were getting pummeled was 'the race is broken, fix it' then when they're at a relatively stable state and protoss are getting RAPED left, right and center it's that protoss players are just bad. And don't forget zerg are still underpowered lolz

UnholyGregor wrote: »

Highest placing foreign zerg in every tournament he's entered. Also in the finals of ipl currently.


this is actually kind of true. the prososs player base lacks the skill of zerg or terran at the moment. I mean, what protoss is comparable to dimaga or nestea? or mvp or bomber?

painuser raised a very good point on inside the game.(paraphrasing) He said that protoss throw alot of series away because they have a tendancy to cheese. Naniwa proxy void's alot, and mc is very dependant on dt rushes.
But when they play defensive macro style, its boring as **** to commentate because theres nothing the zerg can do. Pracically a free win for protoss.

its obvious im the biggest idra fanboy on the planet, but still, its undeniable that hes arguably he best zerg outside korea., and when people say that hes bad without the facts, its kind of annoying. not idras fault that korean terrans are winning everything atm

I'd argue that Sen and probably Ret atm are better than Idra(edit: maybe Morrow too he doesn't play in enough tourneys). His play has been pretty stale as of late and even at MLG Naniwa beat him 2-0 and with the current PvZ metagame that's really really bad.

I don't think it's fair to say that protoss haven't as skilled players. MC is as high level as anyone bar Nestea, yet he's in the up/down matches now. There's Alicia who is pretty high tier and I guess San who was good at one stage and neither of them are really figuring now. Out of all the Code A games I've watched two toss have won and one was because the zerg made retarded decisions and handed him a free win. The other toss that won beat Fenix (lol).

I do agree with what Painuser said about the tendency to cheese. They give away alot of free wins, but in my opinion that's necessary. Protoss can't go into a straight up macro game with a zerg. It's necessary to do pressure which needs to be borderline all-in inorder to slow down the zerg economy. Every type of possible pressure can be beaten easily and cost effectively by the zerg, it comes down to hoping you picked the right pressure to do and hoping they don't pick the right spot to scout your base. Throwing in the cheeses even though they're coinflips means that once in a while they'll work and they'll also make the zerg play more conservatively, which gives the pressure a little bit more of a chance to not just get crushed. But as the game is getting more and more figured out protoss are running out of options.

Maybe someone will come up with something that changes all this but I've felt it's been going in this direction for a long time.

Funky wrote: »

I'd argue that Sen and probably Ret atm are better than Idra...
MLG Naniwa beat him 2-0 and with the current PvZ metagame that's really really bad.

It's necessary to do pressure which needs to be borderline all-in inorder to slow down the zerg economy.

Idra 2-0 sen at horizon lan in winners bracket, then got knocked out by sen in championship bracket. So theyre pretty even. Idra has also beaten ret in every tournemant they have played in.

btw, toss doesnt need to pressure zerg. Zerg cant do **** once toss gets 3bases. not enough toss do macro play, and, is iv said, thats whats holding them back in most cases.even huks win at dreamhack, every game he cheesed iirc, then won the last match by defending a 6pool?

UnholyGregor wrote: »

Highest placing foreign zerg in every tournament he's entered. Also in the finals of ipl currently.


this is actually kind of true. the prososs player base lacks the skill of zerg or terran at the moment. I mean, what protoss is comparable to dimaga or nestea? or mvp or bomber?

painuser raised a very good point on inside the game.(paraphrasing) He said that protoss throw alot of series away because they have a tendancy to cheese. Naniwa proxy void's alot, and mc is very dependant on dt rushes.
But when they play defensive macro style, its boring as **** to commentate because theres nothing the zerg can do. Pracically a free win for protoss.

its obvious im the biggest idra fanboy on the planet, but still, its undeniable that hes arguably he best zerg outside korea., and when people say that hes bad without the facts, its kind of annoying. not idras fault that korean terrans are winning everything atm

Ah cmon you can't say Mc is bad and i havn't actually seen him dt rush, huk was mashing everyone as well before he lost to mana.
I think protoss in the late game is really hard for zerg to deal with but wouldn't say it's overpowered at all.

idra once said ''personality is irrelevant. its progaming, not a dating show''
hes good. really good. thats why i like him. also, he speaks his mind, and doesnt bull****.
when he plays bad, he owns up to it, as in mlg after he lost to boxer ''i played ****ty''

but v cruncher, at a time when zvp was impossible in long games, cruncher didnt do anything note worthy, he made a deatball, and a moved on shakuras plateau. nothing specail there.

no one else misread the title as your favourite programmer then?

Dustaz wrote: »

Wrong.

It was on crevasse and he didnt amass a deathball, unless 70 supply or so is a deathball now.

He outplayed him with a timing that was easily defendable, but idra made drones and got his roaches FF'd.

wasnt the game on crevasse a fake expo into semi all in 3gate push? where he just abused forcefields to win? where idra could have easily killed the attack, but got like 6 roaches trapped in a forcefield cup? not much idra can do about that.

but yeah, on the game on terminus, idra embarassed cruncher bad

Idra's a bad loser. There are tonnes of them out there but there is an expectation that at tournament level players behave properly. He gets stick for being an ass at times and rightfully so.

However, I think the frustration that we see from Idra comes from losing to players who are worse than him. He gives alot of respect and kudos to the guys that he believes are at the top.

Everybody loses and it's normal. But the top terran players only lose to other top players. If they get beaten its because they got outplayed or made a bad micro mistakes.

Top level zergs lose occasionally after playing well against players weaker than them who haven't done anything special and yet still win. In my opinion, this is the source of most of the attitude he exudes. This is what gets him angry and why we see comments like the one he gave about Cruncher.

I wouldn't go so as far as to say the game is unbalanced because zerg win matches all the time and the pro's wouldn't pick them otherwise. It's just the way the three races have been built. It seems as though you can outplay your opponent and still lose. Because you're zerg. The onus seems to be on the zerg to do something special all the time in order to win.

Every patch terran and protoss get some form of nerf and zerg rarely gets any so blizzard obviously thinks so too. and keep trying to fix it. But i don't think altering build times or changing units costs will fix the problem.

Kirby wrote: »

Top level zergs lose occasionally after playing well against players weaker than them who haven't done anything special and yet still win. In my opinion, this is the source of most of the attitude he exudes. This is what gets him angry and why we see comments like the one he gave about Cruncher.

I wouldn't go so as far as to say the game is unbalanced because zerg win matches all the time and the pro's wouldn't pick them otherwise. It's just the way the three races have been built. It seems as though you can outplay your opponent and still lose. Because you're zerg. The onus seems to be on the zerg to do something special all the time in order to win.

I'm not sure how you quantify 'weaker' players. Zerg players seem to have this delusion that if they can hit their inject button ontime every time that they should automatically win every game, cause this means they're macro gods. Which is complete bs. Zerg players lose all the time and bitch and whine about balance when in most cases it's their own fault for droning too hard or doing retarded engagements. Point in case, Idra vs mana on crevasse in the IPL, Idra's got a good economic advantage, mana is building for a big 3 base stalker colossus attack, idra attacks(when he 100% definitely shouldn't and didn't need to) into a TERRIBLE position with roach corruptor and loses the game. Says 'fúck off' and leaves the game.

As for losing to worse players, this happens ALL the time to every race. Roach/ling allin let low-tier zerg pros beat better protoss players for a long time. Random baneling busts often beat terrans who are better. Likewise protoss get random wins off DT openers or VR/gateway allins and terran's have a billion openings that can give them free wins against better players. You just don't hear protoss and terran make such a big deal out of it because they don't have an outspoken primadonna player like Idra.

Grass is always greener on the other side etc...

Columc wrote: »

jesus ****ing chirst these threads are constanly being deraild with idiotic and pointless blanace talk, that non of ye(including myself) really have a good understanding. Balance dosent affect players until they are in high masters(rank 1-16), it truely dosent.

I remember 2 months ago, Destiny did an experiement he got a blank account lost all placements and was put into bronze, he got the account to rank 1 platnium by doing 1 strategy and 1 strategy only, he lost 4 games while getting promoted. That strategy was using queens, queens and only queens.

The experiement was to show, that no matter what crazy startegy players do in the low level, good mechanics, good macro, good micro is the only thing needed for you to win games.

No matter how long you are arguing between each other saying XYZ is imbalance noting will be done about it.

And hell even on mechanics, it still counts in GSL, Nestea has one of the best mechanics in the game and he can outplay anyone. It just shows, we havent reached a skill ceiling yet to were balance would be a issue, when people reach the skill level and it is clearly showing that one race i losing by a far amount then let the blanace disccisuion come into play.

but for now, just leave it

High, mid, low etc isnt based on ranks, rather points, you can be rank 1 with 10 points in a new league etc, high masters at the end of last season was like 1750+ and i was rank 7 with 1610 points in my division