Favourite/Most-Hated Progamer

godspal

I am just curious about what type of play people on this forum like/aspire to play like.

My favourite player is definitely LiquidRet. Its three things I just love about his play, his two O/L scouting is just amazing, it allows him to respond precisely to all situations.
His larva management is perfect. I have yet to see a player who can keep energy down on his queens like Ret does.
And finally his calm composure, I have seen allow players to sack bases just so he can get the best possible position.
I suppose the game I think typifies his style of play game No. 2 at MLG Anaheim against Rain.

As for a player I really don't like watching. It has to be GoOdy. He plays Terran in the most boring, un-dynamic way. He does significant early game economic damage to all his opponents and then turtles up, and moves out with these "power-overwhelming" mech forces.

Lafortezza

I don't know enough about play styles to say I prefer a particular player. I do like watching players who multitask really well, drops+defending+map control+great macro+decision making is great to watch. The recent Korean TvTs at MLG were great for this.

But any player/streamer that commentates on his own games I watch, I play Terran so Trump's stream on TL is pretty good as he talks alot about particular game situations, builds and strategies.

In terms of commentators Tastosis obv, I like InControl too as he combines reasonable strat analysis with jokes. Kind of gone off Day9 as a tournament caster, he talks weird and trys too hard to be professional/business like. His dailys are still great though, the most recent Funday Monday was hilarious.

Columc

Has to be IdrA, not on his bm or his play style, but just all the memes that come from him...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlc0S8LLtsg

COME ON.

so good

Laisurg

I'm really liking sen atm, for a player i don't like I'd have to say either Idra or Incontrol mainly because both of them act like tools a lot of the time.

Grimebox

My favourite player has to be naniwa at the moment. As a protoss player, its just a joy to see someone play them so well. Whitera is certainly up there, especially when he streams and does some of his zany special tactics. I love seeing him using warp prisms to their full potential.

Destiny would be my least favourite. I can't stand that xbox live mouth he has on him. Why oh why does this have to become the norm for online gaming. Over the top insults about ****ing each others mother and dog. Ugh cant stand it. I hate him even more because he's popular as a result of it. And he has a fairly nerdy voice on top of that. I know thats fairly unavoidable in esports of all things but I way prefer the sound of incontrol or tasteless for example.

UnholyGregor

favourite player: idra, ret, and naniwa by far the most talented and skillful foreigners
least liked: cruncher, most gimmeky ****ty player iv ever seen. only got to where he is in sc2 by abusing the protoss lol-free-win-ball.

IRL_Sinister

Don't know if these guys are still around but my favorite players were...

Terran: DeMuslim
Protoss: ToD
Zerg: DarkForce (His ZvT in particular)

[These are totally not WC biased.... :P]

Least favorite:

Terran: MarineKingPrime (Too one-dimensional)
Protoss: Cruncher (Deathball of doom)
Zerg: Sen (Hate his playstyle)

These are opinions of about 3 months ago though so they are probably total bullsh*t in today's game

Xios

I'd have to say my favourite is Destiny, just cause he's fookin hilarious, like come on, 4 infestor hit squad?

don't have any hated ones, don't know enough.

Grimebox

I just want to add Xios to my most hated players list

Dustaz

Too many favorites to mention, but maybe Jinro for going to korea from the start and quietly outperforming all the other foreigners (well, outperforming the loudmothed one anyway ) before his slump started. Also, hes irish so hes the nearest thing to a home grown gosu that we have. Pity its all going so badly for him now.

MC, Whitera, ret, huk, and a few others would always be favorites too.


Least favorite? Well theres only one possibility really. Its all very well to be arrogant and ironicly dismissive of everybody else, but when ALL YOU DO is bm people very publicly and then lose to them, or whine CONSTANTLY about how underpowered your race is and watch a member of your race win the GSL twice in two seasons, then your name must be Idra and i enjoy watching you lose.

ESPCIALLY when its by cruncher. And he outplayed you. and he subtly bms you and a meme is born.

UnholyGregor

Dustaz wrote: »

ESPCIALLY when its by cruncher. And he outplayed you. .

Wrong.
and yeah, nestea winning gsl is definatley proof the zerg is balanced.... cos nestea isn't miles ahead of everybody else in gsl at all..... totally even skill

Funky

Favourites:
The main ones would be Naniwa, WhiteRa, Tyler, Thorzain. Nani & Thorzain cause they're total beasts and WhiteRa & Tyler because I like their styles of play, just wish Tyler would practice harder.

Least favourites:
Probably Idra I guess. At first I disliked him for his attitude then I liked him cause he was really really good, but now he's kinda mediocre and still acts like he knows everything about the game. He's pretty much a total hypocrite, funny how his stance on zerg when they were getting pummeled was 'the race is broken, fix it' then when they're at a relatively stable state and protoss are getting RAPED left, right and center it's that protoss players are just bad. And don't forget zerg are still underpowered lolz

UnholyGregor

Funky wrote: »

he's kinda mediocre

Highest placing foreign zerg in every tournament he's entered. Also in the finals of ipl currently.

Funky wrote: »

protoss players are just bad.

this is actually kind of true. the prososs player base lacks the skill of zerg or terran at the moment. I mean, what protoss is comparable to dimaga or nestea? or mvp or bomber?

painuser raised a very good point on inside the game.(paraphrasing) He said that protoss throw alot of series away because they have a tendancy to cheese. Naniwa proxy void's alot, and mc is very dependant on dt rushes.
But when they play defensive macro style, its boring as **** to commentate because theres nothing the zerg can do. Pracically a free win for protoss.

its obvious im the biggest idra fanboy on the planet, but still, its undeniable that hes arguably he best zerg outside korea., and when people say that hes bad without the facts, its kind of annoying. not idras fault that korean terrans are winning everything atm

Funky

UnholyGregor wrote: »

Highest placing foreign zerg in every tournament he's entered. Also in the finals of ipl currently.


this is actually kind of true. the prososs player base lacks the skill of zerg or terran at the moment. I mean, what protoss is comparable to dimaga or nestea? or mvp or bomber?

painuser raised a very good point on inside the game.(paraphrasing) He said that protoss throw alot of series away because they have a tendancy to cheese. Naniwa proxy void's alot, and mc is very dependant on dt rushes.
But when they play defensive macro style, its boring as **** to commentate because theres nothing the zerg can do. Pracically a free win for protoss.

its obvious im the biggest idra fanboy on the planet, but still, its undeniable that hes arguably he best zerg outside korea., and when people say that hes bad without the facts, its kind of annoying. not idras fault that korean terrans are winning everything atm

I'd argue that Sen and probably Ret atm are better than Idra(edit: maybe Morrow too he doesn't play in enough tourneys). His play has been pretty stale as of late and even at MLG Naniwa beat him 2-0 and with the current PvZ metagame that's really really bad.

I don't think it's fair to say that protoss haven't as skilled players. MC is as high level as anyone bar Nestea, yet he's in the up/down matches now. There's Alicia who is pretty high tier and I guess San who was good at one stage and neither of them are really figuring now. Out of all the Code A games I've watched two toss have won and one was because the zerg made retarded decisions and handed him a free win. The other toss that won beat Fenix (lol).

I do agree with what Painuser said about the tendency to cheese. They give away alot of free wins, but in my opinion that's necessary. Protoss can't go into a straight up macro game with a zerg. It's necessary to do pressure which needs to be borderline all-in inorder to slow down the zerg economy. Every type of possible pressure can be beaten easily and cost effectively by the zerg, it comes down to hoping you picked the right pressure to do and hoping they don't pick the right spot to scout your base. Throwing in the cheeses even though they're coinflips means that once in a while they'll work and they'll also make the zerg play more conservatively, which gives the pressure a little bit more of a chance to not just get crushed. But as the game is getting more and more figured out protoss are running out of options.

Maybe someone will come up with something that changes all this but I've felt it's been going in this direction for a long time.

VikingErik

I think I like Tyler the most despite his lack of success. He seems to come across as very intelligent and overall friendly. Also I love that BW video of him commentating his own game high/drunk "Arbiterssss".

Also Naniwa and Thorzain cause they my Swedish home-boys.

Hate idra. He's arrogant, whiny and looks like a total dweeb. Zerg is the most flexible race in my opinion and there are so many ways and unit compositions that can be created and yet he'll bitch about at everything else instead of the fact that he's narrow minded. I know playing zerg possible takes the biggest amount of skill to play but I also think it can have the greatest success. Remember when Ultralisks were all the rage and now they're nowhere to be seen?

Remember when nobody was using Colossi? Of course you don't because Protoss never had much of an alternative.

Only now is Archon Zealot somewhat of an alternative, but most of the time you need to go Colossi.

You don't hear Protoss players complaining nearly as much as other race players.

Sorry for ranting.

UnholyGregor

Funky wrote: »

I'd argue that Sen and probably Ret atm are better than Idra...
MLG Naniwa beat him 2-0 and with the current PvZ metagame that's really really bad.

It's necessary to do pressure which needs to be borderline all-in inorder to slow down the zerg economy.

Idra 2-0 sen at horizon lan in winners bracket, then got knocked out by sen in championship bracket. So theyre pretty even. Idra has also beaten ret in every tournemant they have played in.

btw, toss doesnt need to pressure zerg. Zerg cant do **** once toss gets 3bases. not enough toss do macro play, and, is iv said, thats whats holding them back in most cases.even huks win at dreamhack, every game he cheesed iirc, then won the last match by defending a 6pool?

NeoSlicerZ

Taking that third as protoss is quite hard. Watched huk play a ton of games vs morrow on his stream. Splitting the map with zerg is hard because you're going to trade gas units for mineral units.

Funky, it's BW PvZ all over again pre Bisu. The answer will be finding another timing that's abusive as hell.

Laisurg

UnholyGregor wrote: »

Highest placing foreign zerg in every tournament he's entered. Also in the finals of ipl currently.


this is actually kind of true. the prososs player base lacks the skill of zerg or terran at the moment. I mean, what protoss is comparable to dimaga or nestea? or mvp or bomber?

painuser raised a very good point on inside the game.(paraphrasing) He said that protoss throw alot of series away because they have a tendancy to cheese. Naniwa proxy void's alot, and mc is very dependant on dt rushes.
But when they play defensive macro style, its boring as **** to commentate because theres nothing the zerg can do. Pracically a free win for protoss.

its obvious im the biggest idra fanboy on the planet, but still, its undeniable that hes arguably he best zerg outside korea., and when people say that hes bad without the facts, its kind of annoying. not idras fault that korean terrans are winning everything atm

Ah cmon you can't say Mc is bad and i havn't actually seen him dt rush, huk was mashing everyone as well before he lost to mana.
I think protoss in the late game is really hard for zerg to deal with but wouldn't say it's overpowered at all.

Dustaz

UnholyGregor wrote: »

Wrong.

Whats wrong about it? Referring to the smiley game in particular. Afair , Idra got pretty much outplayed.

UnholyGregor wrote: »

its obvious im the biggest idra fanboy on the planet, but still, its undeniable that hes arguably he best zerg outside korea., and when people say that hes bad without the facts, its kind of annoying. not idras fault that korean terrans are winning everything atm

Hes obviously not "bad", hes just not as good as he considers himself. Premature GG's, the tendancy to tilt and the utter derision of some of his oppononts mean that he can never be considered "the best".

UnholyGregor

idra once said ''personality is irrelevant. its progaming, not a dating show''
hes good. really good. thats why i like him. also, he speaks his mind, and doesnt bull****.
when he plays bad, he owns up to it, as in mlg after he lost to boxer ''i played ****ty''

but v cruncher, at a time when zvp was impossible in long games, cruncher didnt do anything note worthy, he made a deatball, and a moved on shakuras plateau. nothing specail there.

Dustaz

UnholyGregor wrote: »

but v cruncher, at a time when zvp was impossible in long games, cruncher didnt do anything note worthy, he made a deatball, and a moved on shakuras plateau. nothing specail there.

Wrong.

It was on crevasse and he didnt amass a deathball, unless 70 supply or so is a deathball now.

He outplayed him with a timing that was easily defendable, but idra made drones and got his roaches FF'd.

I liked him when i figured all he did was speak his mind, but endless endless drivel gets boring.

BlitzKrieg

no one else misread the title as your favourite programmer then?

RoyalMarine

i always read it as favourite programmer... annoying as hell

UnholyGregor

Dustaz wrote: »

Wrong.

It was on crevasse and he didnt amass a deathball, unless 70 supply or so is a deathball now.

He outplayed him with a timing that was easily defendable, but idra made drones and got his roaches FF'd.

wasnt the game on crevasse a fake expo into semi all in 3gate push? where he just abused forcefields to win? where idra could have easily killed the attack, but got like 6 roaches trapped in a forcefield cup? not much idra can do about that.

but yeah, on the game on terminus, idra embarassed cruncher bad

Grimebox

Alan Turing is definitely up there

Kirby

Idra's a bad loser. There are tonnes of them out there but there is an expectation that at tournament level players behave properly. He gets stick for being an ass at times and rightfully so.

However, I think the frustration that we see from Idra comes from losing to players who are worse than him. He gives alot of respect and kudos to the guys that he believes are at the top.

Everybody loses and it's normal. But the top terran players only lose to other top players. If they get beaten its because they got outplayed or made a bad micro mistakes.

Top level zergs lose occasionally after playing well against players weaker than them who haven't done anything special and yet still win. In my opinion, this is the source of most of the attitude he exudes. This is what gets him angry and why we see comments like the one he gave about Cruncher.

I wouldn't go so as far as to say the game is unbalanced because zerg win matches all the time and the pro's wouldn't pick them otherwise. It's just the way the three races have been built. It seems as though you can outplay your opponent and still lose. Because you're zerg. The onus seems to be on the zerg to do something special all the time in order to win.

Every patch terran and protoss get some form of nerf and zerg rarely gets any so blizzard obviously thinks so too. and keep trying to fix it. But i don't think altering build times or changing units costs will fix the problem.

Dustaz

UnholyGregor wrote: »

wasnt the game on crevasse a fake expo into semi all in 3gate push? where he just abused forcefields to win? where idra could have easily killed the attack, but got like 6 roaches trapped in a forcefield cup? not much idra can do about that.

Of course there was something Idra could do about that. Not get 6 roaches trapped in a ff for a start. Build attacking units when he sees the push rather than drone for seconds.

People lose to weaker players all the time, its part of the game. Any game. Idra needs to deal with that.

Funky

Kirby wrote: »

Top level zergs lose occasionally after playing well against players weaker than them who haven't done anything special and yet still win. In my opinion, this is the source of most of the attitude he exudes. This is what gets him angry and why we see comments like the one he gave about Cruncher.

I wouldn't go so as far as to say the game is unbalanced because zerg win matches all the time and the pro's wouldn't pick them otherwise. It's just the way the three races have been built. It seems as though you can outplay your opponent and still lose. Because you're zerg. The onus seems to be on the zerg to do something special all the time in order to win.

I'm not sure how you quantify 'weaker' players. Zerg players seem to have this delusion that if they can hit their inject button ontime every time that they should automatically win every game, cause this means they're macro gods. Which is complete bs. Zerg players lose all the time and bitch and whine about balance when in most cases it's their own fault for droning too hard or doing retarded engagements. Point in case, Idra vs mana on crevasse in the IPL, Idra's got a good economic advantage, mana is building for a big 3 base stalker colossus attack, idra attacks(when he 100% definitely shouldn't and didn't need to) into a TERRIBLE position with roach corruptor and loses the game. Says 'fúck off' and leaves the game.

As for losing to worse players, this happens ALL the time to every race. Roach/ling allin let low-tier zerg pros beat better protoss players for a long time. Random baneling busts often beat terrans who are better. Likewise protoss get random wins off DT openers or VR/gateway allins and terran's have a billion openings that can give them free wins against better players. You just don't hear protoss and terran make such a big deal out of it because they don't have an outspoken primadonna player like Idra.

Grass is always greener on the other side etc...

Columc

jesus ****ing chirst these threads are constanly being deraild with idiotic and pointless blanace talk, that non of ye(including myself) really have a good understanding. Balance dosent affect players until they are in high masters(rank 1-16), it truely dosent.

I remember 2 months ago, Destiny did an experiement he got a blank account lost all placements and was put into bronze, he got the account to rank 1 platnium by doing 1 strategy and 1 strategy only, he lost 4 games while getting promoted. That strategy was using queens, queens and only queens.

The experiement was to show, that no matter what crazy startegy players do in the low level, good mechanics, good macro, good micro is the only thing needed for you to win games.

No matter how long you are arguing between each other saying XYZ is imbalance noting will be done about it.

And hell even on mechanics, it still counts in GSL, Nestea has one of the best mechanics in the game and he can outplay anyone. It just shows, we havent reached a skill ceiling yet to were balance would be a issue, when people reach the skill level and it is clearly showing that one race i losing by a far amount then let the blanace disccisuion come into play.

but for now, just leave it

Decerto

Columc wrote: »

jesus ****ing chirst these threads are constanly being deraild with idiotic and pointless blanace talk, that non of ye(including myself) really have a good understanding. Balance dosent affect players until they are in high masters(rank 1-16), it truely dosent.

I remember 2 months ago, Destiny did an experiement he got a blank account lost all placements and was put into bronze, he got the account to rank 1 platnium by doing 1 strategy and 1 strategy only, he lost 4 games while getting promoted. That strategy was using queens, queens and only queens.

The experiement was to show, that no matter what crazy startegy players do in the low level, good mechanics, good macro, good micro is the only thing needed for you to win games.

No matter how long you are arguing between each other saying XYZ is imbalance noting will be done about it.

And hell even on mechanics, it still counts in GSL, Nestea has one of the best mechanics in the game and he can outplay anyone. It just shows, we havent reached a skill ceiling yet to were balance would be a issue, when people reach the skill level and it is clearly showing that one race i losing by a far amount then let the blanace disccisuion come into play.

but for now, just leave it

High, mid, low etc isnt based on ranks, rather points, you can be rank 1 with 10 points in a new league etc, high masters at the end of last season was like 1750+ and i was rank 7 with 1610 points in my division

Columc

Decerto wrote: »

High, mid, low etc isnt based on ranks, rather points, you can be rank 1 with 10 points in a new league etc, high masters at the end of last season was like 1750+ and i was rank 7 with 1610 points in my division

near the end of the season were players play constantly. If you play constantly and you are a good player you should be high in the points. And I was using that as a example of people who would understand balance.

Im surprised you didnt mention about what region, and how diffrent regions are better.........

UnholyGregor

Columc wrote: »

Balance dosent affect players until they are in high masters(rank 1-16), it truely dosent.

you mean like me?
edit: was 11th yesterday, got cheesed back to where i currently am T.T

Columc

so my favourite programmer is EGHuK what a guy.

Joshua Jones

Funky wrote: »

Point in case, Idra vs mana on crevasse in the IPL, Idra's got a good economic advantage, mana is building for a big 3 base stalker colossus attack, idra attacks(when he 100% definitely shouldn't and didn't need to) into a TERRIBLE position with roach corruptor and loses the game. Says 'fúck off' and leaves the game.

I was a big Idra fan until I watched that game. I couldn't believe it. 2-0 up and cruising. Went for a spine rush in third match and rage quit before they even got rooted. He coulda still done damage, and swithed strat. Getting beaten in the forth, bad positioning again, says "this is a f***ing joke" and rage quits. Then last game as you described. Zero sportsmanship and loses the cool too quckly. I think I prefer Nerchio now, or Ret. (Yep, zerg lover lol)

Edit: Actually I think in the game you described he said "**** you", if I remember correct.

UnholyGregor

first off, the ipl games are old as ****, as seen in the na battlenet invitational, idras doing pretty well in terms of cotroling his tilting, and staying in the game, as seen by his series with dde in the battlenet na invitational

idra was arguably the best foreign broodwar player of all time, and in sc2, a very unstably balanced and new game, i can understand idras frustration when he loses games to randoms like cruncher and mana,due to sc2's instability, and coin-flippy games. in broodwar, the better player nearly always wins, but in sc2 as idra has stated ''anyone can win''.

i can identify with idras bm and rage from time to time, it makes him easy to identify with, instead of some robot who just 'gg's'' after every game regardless

Funky

UnholyGregor wrote: »

first off, the ipl games are old as ****, as seen in the na battlenet invitational, idras doing pretty well in terms of cotroling his tilting, and staying in the game, as seen by his series with dde in the battlenet na invitational

They were only broadcast a couple of days before the invitational, sure they were played earlier than that but not by much. Then he went on to come like 4th? 4th in America is pretty, pretty, pretty bad. I know you love him in a purely manly way but him losing at the moment isn't SC2 being volatile he's just not playing well. My point in bringing up that game was that the way he acted he was obviously trying to express that he thought he should have won, where in reality he ****ed up. Not the game, not super surprise cheese, Idra. His mechanics might be amazing but his lategame decision making is most definitely not.

UnholyGregor

Funky wrote: »

They were only broadcast a couple of days before the invitational, sure they were played earlier than that but not by much. Then he went on to come like 4th?

they were played 3 months ago, pre infestor buff, when zvp was practically un winnable vs a competent opponent.

also, yeah he was knocked out of the invitational in a coinflip series by sheth

Funky

UnholyGregor wrote: »

they were played 3 months ago, pre infestor buff, when zvp was practically un winnable vs a competent opponent.

also, yeah he was knocked out of the invitational in a coinflip series by sheth

lol

Columc

UnholyGregor wrote: »

they were played 3 months ago, pre infestor buff, when zvp was practically un winnable vs a competent opponent.

also, yeah he was knocked out of the invitational in a coinflip series by sheth

He came 4th in the west blizzard NA tournament, which had 8 players in it... which were from the US, and not all of US was part of it, because the latin NA inv was on prior to that.

And IPL were not played 3 months ago, the finals just finished recently.

still love people thinking zvz is a coinflip, noting to do with skill, micro and macro no.

Kirby

ZvZ isn't a coinflip. It usually comes down to decision making. When should I tech switch, when should I engage him with my army and on what part of the map should I do it on. Baneling micro isn't as important as people think.

That's my take on it anyway.

Decerto

Columc wrote: »

near the end of the season were players play constantly. If you play constantly and you are a good player you should be high in the points. And I was using that as a example of people who would understand balance.

Im surprised you didnt mention about what region, and how diffrent regions are better.........

I think you missunderstood my post, i was simply correcting you on what high masters is, its not top8 or w/e its based off points.

On topic fav player atm puzzle, love how smart his builds and timings are, used to be naniwa since before he got famous around early 2010/homestory cup 2 time but now he is he seems to talk to much retarded ****

Most hated are gamers with undeserved attention with little to no results to back it up, so tlo ever since he asked his fans to vote him into that dignitas/scan tournament even though he hasnt had any results for 7+ months he thinks he deserves to be in a tournament with 7 of eu's best over players like nerchio/ret etc

UnholyGregor

Columc wrote: »

And IPL were not played 3 months ago, the finals just finished recently.

still love people thinking zvz is a coinflip, noting to do with skill, micro and macro no.

nobody said zvz is a coinflip.
i said, that series was a coinflip. game 1: 1base bane all in.
game 2. 2base roach timing, which, by pure chance, came about 20 seconds before idras infestors poped.
and yeah, you cant really ''love people thinking zvz is a coinflip'' since you have no idea how to play it either
i
and you may be right, the finals, which did not involve idra, just finished recently.

Jonny7

UnholyGregor wrote: »

they were played 3 months ago, pre infestor buff, when zvp was practically un winnable vs a competent opponent.

also, yeah he was knocked out of the invitational in a coinflip series by sheth

3 months ago? pre infestor buff? lol

UnholyGregor

Jonny7 wrote: »

3 months ago? pre infestor buff? lol

yes around that time iirc, just going by what idra said on sotg, the games were played pre infestor buff, which is around 3 months, maybe 4?

Funky

They weren't prepatch.

UnholyGregor

and how do you know this?

Funky

'Cause you can see from games before his MaNa games that it's 4 second fungal(check Idra vs Moonan Winners Round 3, game 2, skip to about 16:30 in). Also that patch was like 5 months ago, to suggest that season 2 of the IPL was played before the season 1 finals were aired is pretty retarded. I'm pretty sure the season 1 finals were played post-patch too.

You should really check stuff before spouting nonsense, even in defense of your idol and god.

UnholyGregor

you sound mad
but yeah pretty sure it was pre infestor buff

Jonny7

UnholyGregor wrote: »

you sound mad
but yeah pretty sure it was pre infestor buff

Patch was in March, first WR games were played in June, then broadcast about a month later

Funky

zergisop

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