Do Iarnród Éireann even READ appeals before they reject them?

winterlight · 16-08-2011 08:26PM #1

Got on a train from my local station (Sallins) to Heuston recently for the first time in years. Used to always buy my ticket on the train. No ticket sellers on the train this time so as soon as I got off I went to a member of staff to try and buy one. Asked me loads of questions, which I duly answered, then he slapped a 100euro fine on me. Told me that I should appeal it because it would probably be waived in my circumstances, even gave me his name and told me I could name him on my appeal. Wrote this letter:

Dear Sir/Madam,

RE: Fixed Penalty Notice Appeal c

On Saturday the 25/06/2011, I arrived in Sallins to board the 10.10am train from Sallins heading for Dublin Heuston. As I approached the platform, the train was waiting. I made a quick decision to board the train. I believed that I could buy a ticket from a staff member on the train before it arrived in Heuston. The reason I assumed this was because the last time I used the service (2 years ago) that is exactly what I did. I had no reason to believe that you didn't put ticket sellers on the train anymore. I am not a regular commuter- any trips I make to Dublin I usually take in my car.

When I got off the train in Heuston, I immediately went to a member of staff on the platform to ask if I could buy a ticket. I spoke to two members of staff before being eventually referred to Mr.
(RPU). I explained myself to Mr.
and co-operated fully in giving him my details for the Fixed Penalty Notice form. Mr.
informed me that he was recommending that I would not have to pay the €100 fine, just the €7.20. He furthermore advised me to appeal either by email or writing.

I await your reply.

Kind regards,

So anyway, today I got my reply. I'm raging as it's clear the writer of this letter hasn't even read my appeal. He's just giving me the company line.
Here it is:

Thank you for your email in regards to your fine. It is incumbent on passengers to allow sufficient time to purchase a ticket from the facilities provided at the station before they board the train, be in possession of a valid ticket for the complete journey they are about to undertake, retain the ticket until they have left our premises and if requested produce the ticket to an inspector. This has always been Company policy and is outlined in our conditions of carriage.

However in your circumstances explained in your e mail you did board the services without a valid ticket it is the responsibility of the passenger to ensure they have a valid ticket before boarding the train. Therefore I am not prepared to negate the fine and the amount of €107.20 is still required to be paid. Please ensure that you discharge the fine if you have not done so already as payment is now over due.

Payment of the fine may be made either by cheque/ postal order, made payable to Iarnród Éireann. Alternatively, you may pay by credit/laser card by telephoning the RPU at 01-7032461/01-7032530 between 0915-13.00 and 14.15-16.30 Monday to Friday.

Should I write back to him?
Has anyone on here ever been successful in an appeal?

And WHY am I being fined 100euro? I just saw on their website that the fines start at 25euro and 100 euro is the max. Seems way harsh...

goingnowhere · 16-08-2011 08:59PM

There is a ticket machine on the Dublin bound platform in Sallins right next to where you enter the platform.

You arrived late, you had an opportunity to buy ticket, you didn't, you got fined, no valid ground for appeal.

The only enforceable fine is 100 euro as laid down in law.

Put it down to experience and move on

winterlight · 16-08-2011 09:27PM

goingnowhere wrote: »

There is a ticket machine on the Dublin bound platform in Sallins right next to where you enter the platform.

You arrived late, you had an opportunity to buy ticket, you didn't, you got fined, no valid ground for appeal.

The only enforceable fine is 100 euro as laid down in law.

Put it down to experience and move on

Look, I'm probably going to pay it anyway. I'm just posting here to get advice from people who are seasoned commuters as I don't know any personally. I still think it is very unfair. I made an honest mistake and I'm sure you'll agree that the punishment does not fit the crime in this case.

I guess I'll just have to thank my lucky stars that I don't have to use this service ever again.

Judgement Day · 16-08-2011 09:28PM

goingnowhere wrote: »

There is a ticket machine on the Dublin bound platform in Sallins right next to where you enter the platform.

You arrived late, you had an opportunity to buy ticket, you didn't, you got fined, no valid ground for appeal.

The only enforceable fine is 100 euro as laid down in law.

Put it down to experience and move on

Yeah but he won't be doing it by IE again - another satisfied customer.

Mr. Presentable · 16-08-2011 09:30PM

How can you say "honest mistake"? You got on the train sans ticket.

winterlight · 16-08-2011 09:34PM

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

How can you say "honest mistake"? You got on the train sans ticket.

Mr. Presentable, I used to do this all the time! It was never a problem for me before!

winterlight · 16-08-2011 09:37PM

Sorry maybe that wasn't clear, there was always a ticket seller on that route. I'm not talking about that long ago either, 2 years ago...

daddydick · 16-08-2011 09:41PM

I think that's an absolute joke. There was no need for them to penalise an honest mistake like this,

For all those high and mighty people on here saying that she broke the rules etc, €100 is extremely excessive, you dont even get that for driving at 100mph....totally excessive when it's totally clear that she was not in any way trying to avoid the charge.

Judgement Day · 16-08-2011 09:41PM

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

How can you say "honest mistake"? You got on the train sans ticket.

winterlight - justifiably in my opinion - feels that some 'jobsworth' in IE hasn't even bothered to read his letter but sent the automatic, soviet style 'cockroach' letter - typical of IE customer relations in my experience.

Cookie_Monster · 16-08-2011 09:43PM

you buy a ticket at the station before you board the train, it's not really a difficult concept.
I really can't see how you have any grounds what so ever to appeal...

there was always a ticket seller on that route.

can you provide proof of that in the slightest?

Captain Chaos · 16-08-2011 09:44PM

The rules on IE are very clear, no ticket, no trip. You have to have to correct ticket for the train you board before you step on, not after. Luas is the same policy.

You don't buy a cinema ticket after you watch the movie.

NedNew2 · 16-08-2011 09:49PM

I agree with Daddydick, there are a lot of self-righteous people that post on here without a minutes thought. I think this current hard-man attitude of IE will be totally counterproductive. This was an honest mistake by an honest person and any warm-blooded creature would have the decency to allow the fine to be waivered.

IE's customer numbers are falling away and they are mostly to blame for it themselves.

OP, you have my sympathy.

winterlight · 16-08-2011 09:52PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you buy a ticket at the station before you board the train, it's not really a difficult concept.
I really can't see how you have any grounds what so ever to appeal...

can you provide proof of that in the slightest?

Look, I have better things to do with my life than come on boards.ie to make up lies.

I shouldn't have to prove that there was always a ticket seller on this route before, because any IE employee worth their salt would know this, and if they weren't sure, they'd know who to ask to verify this.

Thanks for the company line though all the same!:D

n97 mini · 16-08-2011 09:55PM

It would appear IE would prefer good, quality, repeat customers didn't make journeys in the event they don't have time to get a ticket beforehand. Anal attitude, especially in a recession.

But hey it's IE. What else would you suspect? Customer service? An idea of how to run a business?

Cookie_Monster · 16-08-2011 09:57PM

there's a difference between customer service and dealing with someone who's clearly, deliberately evaded a fare.

Mr. Presentable · 16-08-2011 09:57PM

The terms are clear, the signs are clear. Do not board the train without a ticket. I don't care what the OP got away with two years ago.

There's a reason the standard fare (not fine!) is €100.00. It is to discourage people from taking free trips. Was the OP going to buy a ticket when he/she got off at the other end had they not been caught? Didn't think so......

Mr. Presentable · 16-08-2011 09:58PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

there's a difference between customer service and dealing with someone who's clearly, deliberately evaded a fare.

Which the OP did.

n97 mini · 16-08-2011 09:59PM

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

The terms are clear, the signs are clear. Do not board the train without a ticket. I don't care what the OP got away with two years ago.

There's a reason the standard fare (not fine!) is €100.00. It is to discourage people from taking free trips. Was the OP going to buy a ticket when he/she got off at the other end had they not been caught? Didn't think so......

You clearly didn't read his post. First line:

as I got off I went to a member of staff to try and buy one.

winterlight · 16-08-2011 10:00PM

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

The terms are clear, the signs are clear. Do not board the train without a ticket. I don't care what the OP got away with two years ago.

There's a reason the standard fare (not fine!) is €100.00. It is to discourage people from taking free trips. Was the OP going to buy a ticket when he/she got off at the other end had they not been caught? Didn't think so......

lol- you haven't read my original post either- I approached 3 different people in Heuston trying to buy a ticket! Sure you can't LEAVE Heuston without a ticket- they have turnstyles and people checking tickets!

n97 mini · 16-08-2011 10:00PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

there's a difference between customer service and dealing with someone who's clearly, deliberately evaded a fare.

You usually don't troll, so allowing you the benefit of the doubt I'm really not sure how you came to that conclusion. Mr Presentable, otoh, I'm not so sure about.

daddydick · 16-08-2011 10:00PM

It's just another case of very, very bad business from a publically run company.

And I am in no way puclic-sector bashing here, and definitely not at the front line employees. It is the management that havn't a clue how to run a business properly and obviously totally inept at the concept of goodwill to customers and profitability.

daddydick · 16-08-2011 10:03PM

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Which the OP did.

Bullsh1t

She (i think?) clearly got on the train expecting to be able to pay on it?

Unless you consider the OP a liar?

Mr. Presentable · 16-08-2011 10:04PM

n97 mini wrote: »

You clearly didn't read his post. First line:

Gospel, eh?

Mr. Presentable · 16-08-2011 10:05PM

daddydick wrote: »

Bullsh1t

She (i think?) clearly got on the train expecting to be able to pay on it?

Unless you consider the OP a liar?

Who does that? The rules are clear, but that doesn't seem to matter........

Mr. Presentable · 16-08-2011 10:06PM

winterlight wrote: »

lol- you haven't read my original post either- I approached 3 different people in Heuston trying to buy a ticket! Sure you can't LEAVE Heuston without a ticket- they have turnstyles and people checking tickets!

After your journey. Too late, baby

charlemont · 16-08-2011 10:08PM

Pay 'em nothing, S F A.

Cookie_Monster · 16-08-2011 10:08PM

n97 mini wrote: »

You usually don't troll, so allowing you the benefit of the doubt I'm really not sure how you came to that conclusion. Mr Presentable, otoh, I'm not so sure about.

as Mr. P has said the rules are clear.

maybe I'm just sick to death of people constantly coming on here and trying to look for ways out of paying a fine they 100% deserve, trying to make excuses or blame others. I am no fan of CIE at all but in this case I will fully defend them as the OP is clearly not bothered with the rules for the sake of saving a few minutes.

daddydick · 16-08-2011 10:09PM

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Who does that? The rules are clear, but that doesn't seem to matter........

Certainly not you evidently, I imagine you ride bareback into Dublin on your high horse

I love people who have never made an honest mistake in their lives

n97 mini · 16-08-2011 10:10PM

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

After your journey. Too late, baby

Me smells a troll...

n97 mini · 16-08-2011 10:12PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

as Mr. P has said the rules are clear.

maybe I'm just sick to death of people constantly coming on here and trying to look for ways out of paying a fine they 100% deserve, trying to make excuses or blame others. I am no fan of CIE at all but in this case I will fully defend them as the OP is clearly not bothered with the rules for the sake of saving a few minutes.

You arrive late at a station, train on platform, is getting a ticket your number 1 priority, and getting that train secondary?

winterlight · 16-08-2011 10:13PM

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Gospel, eh?

Mr. Presentable, you've given your opinion. Since it is based on an assumption that my original post is a lie, I'm no longer interested in it.

Some people just have a very pessimistic view of humanity I suppose!

Do Iarnród Éireann even READ appeals before they reject them?

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