Academic Titles

Jonathan · 15-08-2011 11:26pm #1

So it appears everyone is now upgraded to a Professor of some sorts.

Board at its meeting on 15th June 2011 approved a proposal from the Working Party on the Internationalisation of Academic Titles to replace the existing academic titles used in Trinity with the following:

Current Title: Lecturer - New Title: Assistant Professor;

Current Title: Senior Lecturer - New Title: Associate Professor;

Current Title: Associate Professor - New Title: Professor

Current Title: Professor - New Title: Professor (with existing title)

andrew · 15-08-2011 11:27pm

I'd like to know the actual differences between each of these titles

Kwekubo · 16-08-2011 12:02am

This actually surprises me, I would never have thought the more conservative elements within College would have voted that through.

Larianne · 16-08-2011 12:05am

With the last one, does that mean their title becomes Professor Professor?

Jonathan · 16-08-2011 12:11am

Larianne wrote: »

With the last one, does that mean their title becomes Professor Professor?

Prof Herp Derp,
Reid Professor in Criminal Law,
Trinity College Dublin.

TrollHammaren · 16-08-2011 1:01am

I'd say a lot of senior lecturers are creaming themselves right now.

RoddyUsher · 16-08-2011 1:09pm

The logic behind this move is to make the staff "recognisable" to American visiting students and colleagues at conferences etc. It was discussed last year by the Board. In the States, a "lecturer" is an unknown position and so we must do things the American way....

yutta · 16-08-2011 1:11pm

Jonathan wrote: »

Prof Herp Derp,
Reid Professor in Criminal Law,
Trinity College Dublin.

You forgot the comma before Dublin...

yutta · 16-08-2011 1:12pm

This is a prime example of homogenization gone mad. Hopefully the new Provost will put a stop to it.

Unregistered. · 16-08-2011 1:28pm

yutta wrote: »

This is a prime example of homogenization gone mad. Hopefully the new Provost will put a stop to it.

Why? It's just a title. All that matters is that everybody knows a > b > c > d.

Doug Cartel · 16-08-2011 2:35pm

I think this is great news. We now probably have more professors than all the other universities in Dublin put together, and are therefore the best.

brownacid · 16-08-2011 4:59pm

It may put the college in sync with America but it puts it out of sync with the rest of the country and most other English speaking countries, i.e. UK, Australia, New Zealand. A professorship should have to be earned and not just given.

I'm of the opinion that this move will undermine the status of the rank of Professor and associate Professor.

EuropeanSon · 16-08-2011 9:14pm

It's not exactly a very good clarification, either. I was told by a Lecturer (soon to be Assistant Professor) that he dislikes it because in the US an Assistant Professor doesn't have tenure by definition, whereas he does have tenure here, and it could be misinterpreted in the US as him not having tenure.

Brian · 16-08-2011 9:53pm

Unregistered. wrote: »

Why? It's just a title. All that matters is that everybody knows a > b > c > d.

Titles in Trinity are now out of sync with the rest of the institutions in the country. So tcd.title == (nui.title - 1).

It's a two-fold negative. One, we lose ... erm ... cross-compatibility with other universities, and two, we lose some of that "Oh you Irish are so cute" on the American side.

usernamegoes · 17-08-2011 12:40am

yutta wrote: »

You forgot the comma before Dublin...

There is no comma before Dublin unlike in Oxbridge colleges Trinity College, Oxford. It's the style that has been settled upon although not consistently followed.

It is explicitly stated in the Oxford Manual of Style.

TrollHammaren · 17-08-2011 1:09am

usernamegoes wrote: »

There is no comma before Dublin unlike in Oxbridge colleges Trinity College, Oxford. It's the style that has been settled upon although not consistently followed.

It is explicitly stated in the Oxford Manual of Style.

You understand that this kind of thing is one of the reasons we have a reputation for being knobs, right?

Kwekubo · 17-08-2011 2:29am

usernamegoes wrote: »

It is explicitly stated in the Oxford Manual of Style.

How tiresome...

Until the statutes of the college and the university were revised last year, the official version of the college's name was "Trinity College, Dublin". The 2010 Statutes and corporate identity publications indicate that College now prefers the comma-less version in its media, but that doesn't affect me or anyone else who isn't writing official publications on behalf of Trinity. Both versions are unambiguous and entirely correct.

yutta · 17-08-2011 8:46am

usernamegoes wrote: »

There is no comma before Dublin unlike in Oxbridge colleges Trinity College, Oxford. It's the style that has been settled upon although not consistently followed.

It is explicitly stated in the Oxford Manual of Style.

Yes there is. If you look at any document from before the 1980s (the decade of the college's rapidist demise), it's consitently there.

It's not explicitly stated in the OMofS. That's a porkie.

yutta · 17-08-2011 8:49am

Kwekubo wrote: »

How tiresome...

Until the statutes of the college and the university were revised last year, the official version of the college's name was "Trinity College, Dublin". The 2010 Statutes and corporate identity publications indicate that College now prefers the comma-less version in its media, but that doesn't affect me or anyone else who isn't writing official publications on behalf of Trinity. Both versions are unambiguous and entirely correct.

lol. 2010 Statutes. Now there's a minefield. I dare you to utter those words at the Fellow's table at commons.

As for "corporate identity" - last time I checked, this was still a university that isn't run like UCD.

El Siglo · 17-08-2011 7:52pm

yutta wrote: »

lol. 2010 Statutes. Now there's a minefield. I dare you to utter those words at the Fellow's table at commons.

As for "corporate identity" - last time I checked, this was still a university that isn't run like UCD.

I've been to UCD and Trinity, I can say without a shadow of a doubt both places are run the same way.

Ahoyhoy · 17-08-2011 8:54pm

yutta wrote: »

Hopefully the new Provost will put a stop to it.

It was his idea.

usernamegoes · 17-08-2011 11:06pm

Kwekubo wrote: »

How tiresome...

Until the statutes of the college and the university were revised last year, the official version of the college's name was "Trinity College, Dublin". The 2010 Statutes and corporate identity publications indicate that College now prefers the comma-less version in its media, but that doesn't affect me or anyone else who isn't writing official publications on behalf of Trinity. Both versions are unambiguous and entirely correct.

Noted that you have the prerogative to write the term whichever way you wish. I was just commenting on how someone purported to correct a different use, a use that is preferred by the College at the moment. That is all.

yutta wrote: »

It's not explicitly stated in the OMofS. That's a porkie.

Ritter, R.M. (Ed), The Oxford Manual of Style (Oxford University Press, (2002)) at p123

blubloblu · 18-08-2011 12:31am

You guys...

andrew · 18-08-2011 4:40am

blubloblu wrote: »

You guys...

Actually, according to the OMoS, it's 'you, guys.' Sheesh, get it right.

yutta · 19-08-2011 11:29am

usernamegoes wrote: »

Ritter, R.M. (Ed), The Oxford Manual of Style (Oxford University Press, (2002)) at p123

Could you please quote that fully for me?

usernamegoes · 19-08-2011 1:56pm

yutta wrote: »

Could you please quote that fully for me?

"Where specific clarification is needed–usually of a university: a scholarship to Trinity College, Cambridge, was offered (as opposed e.g. Trinity College in Oxford or Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut); but note exceptions such as University College London, Trinity College Dublin, Kings College Cambridge, each chooses not to have commas."

TrollHammaren · 19-08-2011 2:10pm

Lads, please, can we take the academic circle-**** to the GMB where it belongs?

yutta · 19-08-2011 2:58pm

usernamegoes wrote: »

"Where specific clarification is needed–usually of a university: a scholarship to Trinity College, Cambridge, was offered (as opposed e.g. Trinity College in Oxford or Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut); but note exceptions such as University College London, Trinity College Dublin, Kings College Cambridge, each chooses not to have commas."

Thank you for taking the time to give me that interesting quote from OMofS.

They aren't wrong. However, do note the word "chooses". I don't recall Trinity College ever formally "choosing" to drop the comma before the most recent Statutes update. If you look at any document from the college's fine history, you'll find that 99.9% of the time, a comma is included. Modern "convention"/laziness/ignorance is not enough reason to omit it from important college documents.

There was never any rationale given for the dropping of the comma, bar appeals to minimalism and modernism (the kind of thinking that has landed us with architectural monstrosities at various points around the college).

Kwekubo · 30-09-2011 8:42am

"Controversy" in the Seanad.

Jonathan · 30-09-2011 10:02am

Kwekubo wrote: »

"Controversy" in the Seanad.

She seems misinformed to be honest. Salaries have nothing to do with the change.

blucey · 02-10-2011 12:31pm

This is pretty irrelevant to most academics. And yes, the main thrust is to gain clarity with the people most research academics work with. Frisntsnce, as someone said, lecturer in the us OR In us influenced places means what untenured, non research active, part time, etc. Senior l means youvebeen doing it longer. This wont cost a penny ( in fact, it will save as watch what were personal chairs become non existence and all top off at (old sytle associate) professor.
Bottle of smoke.

Academic Titles

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