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Thats Gas. And Oil

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Comments

  • #32
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    Irish licensing terms are “absolutely fair” and competitive, according to Pat Shannon, professor of geology at UCD. “If they were overgenerous we would have every big company in the world in here. The fact that we don’t have companies queuing up means that they don’t see Ireland as a giveaway. To me that is the bottom line.”

    Ah shure the professor is right, it's not like the oil companies have ever formed a cartel or have ever been involved in price fixing.


  • #33
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,660 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    TheZohan wrote: »
    Ah shure the professor is right, it's not like the oil companies have ever formed a cartel or have ever been involved in price fixing.

    Yeah.......they formed a cartel NOT to grab all the "loads" of "free" Irish gas and oil. :rolleyes:


  • #34
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    Yeah.......they formed a cartel NOT to grab all the "loads" of "free" Irish gas and oil. :rolleyes:

    Great post, it's nice to see you did a lot of research on this and argued your point well.

    You can keep this little fella too ":rolleyes:" make sure you feed him and give him lots of hugs (he looks a little bit retarded).


  • #35
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    TheZohan wrote: »
    Ah shure the professor is right, it's not like the oil companies have ever formed a cartel or have ever been involved in price fixing.

    Its really no skin of my nose if you value Fintan O'Tooles opnions on Irish oil exploration more highly than that a professor of Geology.

    Confirmation bias much?


  • #36
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    marco_polo wrote: »
    Its really no skin of my nose if you value Fintan O'Tooles opnion on Irish oil exlporation more highly than that a professor of Geology. Confirmation bias much?

    Not really, I'd say the truth is somewhere in the middle. The question is can we really trust our government to get the best deal in this situation? I personally can not.


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  • #37
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    TheZohan wrote: »
    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    Yeah.......they formed a cartel NOT to grab all the "loads" of "free" Irish gas and oil. :rolleyes:

    Great post, it's nice to see you did a lot of research on this and argued your point well.

    You can keep this little fella too ":rolleyes:" make sure you feed him and give him lots of hugs (he looks a little bit retarded).

    I thought he cut to the chase and identified the problem quite well. Far better than some vague accusation of price fixing and cartels.

    The problem to date is that we've had too few companies, too little gas and zero oil. The problem is clearly NOT that companies are filling their pockets with money at our expense.


  • #38
    TheZohanS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    I thought he cut to the chase and identified the problem quite well. Far better than some vague accusation of price fixing and cartels.

    The problem to date is that we've had too few companies, too little gas and zero oil. The problem is clearly NOT that companies are filling their pockets with money at our expense.

    So you trust the government to negotiate a good deal on this? Seriously?


  • #39
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    The 2011 round appears to have finished months ago anyway so I am not sure what Fintan is talking about, there were 15 applications. A little better than the two of 2009.

    http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Press+Releases/Atlantic+Licensing+Round+closes.htm

    These rounds happen few years anyway so if explorations success ratios improve we would be in a position to change to more favourable terms.


  • #40
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    TheZohan wrote: »
    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    I thought he cut to the chase and identified the problem quite well. Far better than some vague accusation of price fixing and cartels.

    The problem to date is that we've had too few companies, too little gas and zero oil. The problem is clearly NOT that companies are filling their pockets with money at our expense.

    So you trust the government to negotiate a good deal on this? Seriously?


    I would hope that, having found a fiscal regime that seems to have ignited some interest in Ireland's offshore, the present government would now leave well enough alone, companies search for and find some oil and gas, develop it, create jobs and hand Ireland a cheque for 25-40% of the profits.

    I would not like to see any Government derail any of this activity by tinkering with licensing regime until it's been proven that Ireland has some real, attractive fields other than the 3 or 4 gas fields so far.

    I say "I hope" because, no, I don't trust the government to leave well alone. At the first hint of real oil or more gas I think they'll eventually cave into those calling for a "renegotiation", other players will pack their bags and leave and Ireland's offshore will stagnate for another 30 years.


  • #41
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,242 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Its obvious we dont have that much oil and gas , america hasnt called enda a terrorist and tried to invade.


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  • #42
    flas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭flas


    i can just picture it now, in 15 years time all the people on here complaining about how our countries resources have been sold from under our feet and that the majority of people were idiots for not realising it at the time, i sincerly hope thats not the case, but its kind of ominous that that is going to be our luck, we have a track record of having bad luck and being sold out, why are people thinking this is going to be any different!


  • #43
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    TheZohan wrote: »
    Ah shure the professor is right, it's not like the oil companies have ever formed a cartel or have ever been involved in price fixing.

    They wouldn't have to, in fairness, while dealing with the morons that run this country.


  • #44
    Pantera varro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭Pantera varro


    If this subject interests you,watch this.

    http://youtu.be/76VOnzXQMsU


  • #45
    whubee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 175 ✭✭whubee


    Simple answer to this whole topic/dilemma.

    (a)They drill and find nothing - business is business, oh well.

    (b)They drill and they find something - heres your expenses, nice meeting you, dont let the door hit you.


    oh oh but international reputation.. like whatevvver, we got oil, talk to the hand.


  • #46
    Yahew
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭Yahew


    whubee wrote: »
    Simple answer to this whole topic/dilemma.

    (a)They drill and find nothing - business is business, oh well.

    (b)They drill and they find something - heres your expenses, nice meeting you, dont let the door hit you.


    oh oh but international reputation.. like whatevvver, we got oil, talk to the hand.

    Lol.

    1) We don't have oil.
    2) your formula would make it non-profitable to drill. Obviously.


  • #47
    whubee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 175 ✭✭whubee


    hmm....will consider


  • #48
    andrew
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,371 Mod ✭✭✭✭andrew


    WHY DOES THIS KEEP COMING UP.

    The Irish government can tax the oil coming out of the ground at a rate of their choosing. It doesn't matter a **** what the rate is now, or who owns the oil/gas, or who finds it. All that matters is that it's actually found... which means incentivising firms to prospect here, which the government are doing. Shell to sea, by the way, have undone this incentivisation by doubling the cost of the Corrib project, making sure that in future, companies will be wary of investing here, potentially depriving the people of this country of a lot of money.

    We should look for the oil/gas ourselves then, you say. Well exploration costs money, about 100 million per well. Say the Irish government digs 10 wells a year, (not much really), that's a billion. Lets say they get lucky on their hundredth well, after ten years (an optimistic assumption), then that's cost 10 billion JUST TO FIND IT. And that's assuming that the government don't do something wrong along the way. 10 billion we don't have. If you think this will improve our current economic position, you're objectively wrong.


  • #49
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    The chap is a dreamer or mad.

    Norwegian oil is shallow oil, you have a problem you send down a diver to fix it, Our PERHAPS POTENTIAL OIL is deep sea oil. you have a problem and you have the deep water horizon.

    The tech is not licked yet, its getting there, its why there was only 15 licences applied to drill in the area in the last 5 years while the north sea had a 100. Its cutting edge technology and I don't think Stat oil drill those wells.


  • #50
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    andrew wrote: »
    We should look for the oil/gas ourselves then, you say. Well exploration costs money, about 100 million per well. Say the Irish government digs 10 wells a year, (not much really), that's a billion. Lets say they get lucky on their hundredth well, after ten years (an optimistic assumption), then that's cost 10 billion JUST TO FIND IT. And that's assuming that the government don't do something wrong along the way. 10 billion we don't have. If you think this will improve our current economic position, you're objectively wrong.

    It'll take years with planning objections and protests about whatever else they think up to protest about then.

    Anyway, it has been done to death on the politics board, here's recent one:

    Our Oil and Gas - boards.ie

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #51
    FGR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭FGR


    It's not the tax rate that's really the issue though. Wasn't the original argument revolving around the fact that the Gov would allow said companies to write off any costs associated with their operations against their tax?

    That 25% would become fairly insignificant by the end of it all.


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  • #52
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Just another thing, oil needs to need remain expensive for our reserves to pay of.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #53
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    I'll believe it when I can have a third tap over the bath that the delicious nectar of sweet lite crude flows from.

    I'd bathe in that sweet lite crude and light a Cuban cigar with 100-dolla-bills and blow myself to smithereens in a state of pure rapture.


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