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Bought Car from dealer no warranty....has fault

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Comments

  • #62
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,999 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    The other day, you were happy that you had no warranty. Now today, after having work done without question under warranty you are thinking of going to court with the dealer over an issue that wouldnt be covered under warranty anyway.

    Coil packs can go in any car any time. Renualt window faults are so common too. I dont see why you are upset with the dealer.


  • #63
    Thinman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Thinman


    mickdw wrote: »
    The other day, you were happy that you had no warranty. Now today, after having work done without question under warranty you are thinking of going to court with the dealer over an issue that wouldnt be covered under warranty anyway.

    Coil packs can go in any car any time. Renualt window faults are so common too. I dont see why you are upset with the dealer.

    Wasn`t happy about have no warranty.................wasn`t sure if I had one.


  • #64
    Thinman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Thinman


    subway wrote: »
    He fixed the coils and window for free?
    Or am I misreading?

    No just the coils, wanted €290 to replace window motor.


  • #65
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Thinman wrote: »
    No just the coils, wanted €290 to replace window motor.

    I presume that €290 is parts-only. The last quote I got was about €330 inclusive VAT for parts only, fitting was extra.


    Tip : If the motor is completely dead and the dealer won't cover it, go to a scrap yard and get one there, it's a simple enough change over.
    It's likely only the little black box of electronics (made by Temic who are owned by Continental and formally of Daimler ;) ) that clips onto the motor that needs replacing. Can replace in a few minutes without removing the motor itself.


  • #66
    Ricardo G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,308 ✭✭✭Ricardo G


    Subway will more than likely blast me for saying this:D
    But, its an engine and gearbox warranty only so you really can't expect the dealer to sort any other issues other than the above mentioned !! The other side to this is the salesman, he obviously is'nt doing his job right, he fails to explain to you that you have a warranty when you bought the car and tell you exactly whats covered or not, had he done this from the start you would have been a much wiser person.
    As for the window issue, well its a Renault thing ! The dealer had every right to charge the €38 labour as you asked them to check it so the fact that they paid for it saved you another few bob


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  • #67
    Paddy 77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Paddy 77


    Guys, sorry for opening this can of worms again but I'm in a similar but much worse situation:


    I bought a car form a dealer 5 weeks ago (cost €4k). It has developed serious engine trouble since. Under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, I would probably (I believe) be in a good position to claim recourse, however I unwittingly signed an invoice which stated in small writing at the bottom that, "Vehicle is sold in need of repair & service, no warranty or guarentee of any kind is given by the seller in respect of the vehicle. Purchaser confirms that he has signed the vehicle and is satisfied"

    Does this invoice I signed have legal standing?
    Am trying to figure out if I am snookered or not. It seems to boil down to whether one can sign away their statutory rights / whether the terms of the invoice are legally binding. :confused:

    Opinions have already been expressed on this but does anyone actually know the answer to the above.


  • #68
    L-M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,536 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    I'm starting to think, you signed you didn't want a warranty, you probably got the car cheaper, why should the dealer stand over it?

    Risk warrants reward and all that, yours didn't favour you.


  • #69
    bazz26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,877 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Paddy 77 wrote: »
    Guys, sorry for opening this can of worms again but I'm in a similar but much worse situation:


    I bought a car form a dealer 5 weeks ago (cost €4k). It has developed serious engine trouble since. Under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, I would probably (I believe) be in a good position to claim recourse, however I unwittingly signed an invoice which stated in small writing at the bottom that, "Vehicle is sold in need of repair & service, no warranty or guarentee of any kind is given by the seller in respect of the vehicle. Purchaser confirms that he has signed the vehicle and is satisfied"

    Does this invoice I signed have legal standing?
    Am trying to figure out if I am snookered or not. It seems to boil down to whether one can sign away their statutory rights / whether the terms of the invoice are legally binding. :confused:

    Opinions have already been expressed on this but does anyone actually know the answer to the above.

    You took a gamble, it didn't pay off. If you were not willing to accept the terms why on earth did you sign a document agreeing to them?


  • #70
    Drummerboy08
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,090 ✭✭✭✭Drummerboy08


    Am I not right in thinking that you can't actually sign your legal rights away?


  • #71
    Paddy 77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Paddy 77


    Limerick man wrote: »
    I'm starting to think, you signed you didn't want a warranty, you probably got the car cheaper, why should the dealer stand over it?

    Your entitled to you your opinion even it is wrong. You obviously missed the point of my question though; its not not what you, me or the dealer in question thinks.

    To answer your question; The dealer should cover it if he is legally obliged to do so, which is what I'm trying to establish.

    Does this invoice I signed have legal standing?


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  • #72
    Paddy 77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Paddy 77


    Drummerboy08 wrote: »
    Am I not right in thinking that you can't actually sign your legal rights away?

    I think you are right in this, was just wondering if anyone knows for sure.

    Bazz 26,

    Per my original q, "I unwittingly signed an invoice", ie didn't notice the small print. It wasn't a gamble, it was signed in good faith. At no point did the vendor refer to this. If anything the vendor pulled a fast one and yes I may have to bare the price of not checking small print.


  • #73
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    How quickly did it develop the trouble, what exactly is the trouble, and what is the cause of the trouble?


  • #74
    Paddy 77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Paddy 77


    -Chris- wrote: »
    How quickly did it develop the trouble, what exactly is the trouble, and what is the cause of the trouble?

    The problem happened 5 weeks after I bought the car. Engine management light came on and car started running very badly. I had it checked out and one of the cylinders is damaged (no compression at all). Mechanic reckons timing chain may have skipped. Will only know the full damage if the head is removed but mechanic is fearing the worst (based on speaking to a Merc mechanic friend of his). I am inclined not to to have head removed by my mechanic at this may invalidate any potential claim.


  • #75
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    I'm not sure if you can claim unmerchantable quality (or whatever the term is) in the case where a timing chain skips 5 weeks after the sale.
    It'd be hard to prove that was a pre-existing condition.


  • #76
    robbie_998
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,222 ✭✭✭robbie_998


    subway wrote: »
    Did you not say they covered everything?

    a warranty like so would never cover "Everything"



    brakes, tyres, clutch , crap like that would not be covered.

    engine and gearbox is what it is.... engine and gearbox... not windows and doors.


    also why go to a main dealer for fixing ? plenty of other good reliable places will do with a lot less !


  • #77
    L-M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,536 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    Paddy 77 wrote: »
    Your entitled to you your opinion even it is wrong. You obviously missed the point of my question though; its not not what you, me or the dealer in question thinks.

    To answer your question; The dealer should cover it if he is legally obliged to do so, which is what I'm trying to establish.

    Does this invoice I signed have legal standing?

    Yes, yes it does. You bought it without warranty, tough sh1t.


  • #78
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭subway


    robbie_998 wrote: »
    a warranty like so would never cover "Everything"



    brakes, tyres, clutch , crap like that would not be covered.

    engine and gearbox is what it is.... engine and gearbox... not windows and doors.


    also why go to a main dealer for fixing ? plenty of other good reliable places will do with a lot less !

    Please Don't twist what I was saying to try drag me back into this, cheers ;)


  • #79
    skin the goat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭skin the goat


    Limerick man you are WRONG, a member of the public cannot be sold a car without a warrenty, this can only be done within the trade between dealers.


  • #80
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    We've been through this before, and afaik there's a significant difference between a "warranty" and the protections under the Sale of Goods and Services Act.

    If the car is sold without warranty, it must be fit for purpose, as described, and of merchantable quality at the time of sale under the SOGASA.

    I'm not sure if an issue occurring 5 weeks after a sale will be covered under the SOGASA.


    Edit: More info here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74242943&postcount=56


  • #81
    mullingar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,338 ✭✭✭mullingar


    http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Our-booklets/NCA-Sale-of-goods.pdf

    Page 5
    National Consumer Agency: wrote:
    You should return faulty goods to the shop as soon as possible. If you wait for a long time it may appear that you have accepted the products, faults and all.


    Edit:

    Interesting story here about warranty of a second hand piano and the sale of goods act

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/shop-told-to-rethink-after-selling-broken-piano-for-euro400-2868611.html


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  • #82
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Good info, but I wonder how that compares to this.

    It took her 5 months before she noticed a pre-existing issue with the piano, whereas Paddy 77 had a reliable car until after 5 weeks an issue occurred.


  • #83
    mullingar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,338 ✭✭✭mullingar


    I did another bit of googling:

    http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Guides-to-Consumer-Law/Shopping/secondhand-goods.html
    National Consumer Agency wrote:

    Shopping: second-hand goods

    When you buy a second-hand item from someone who is selling it as part of their trade, you are entitled to the same rights as if it is new.
    It must be fit for the purpose for which it is sold, as described and be durable as can be expected given the price paid for it and any other relevant factors.
    On the other hand, you cannot expect second-hand goods to be of the same standard as new ones and you need to examine the goods more carefully and ask relevant questions about them.

    'Sold as seen'

    If the goods are “sold-as-seen” you need to be extra careful and, in certain cases (such as cars or antique furniture) you may need to get an expert opinion.
    If the item turns out to be faulty, you have the right to return it to the shop and seek a replacement, a repair or a refund.

    From this, could it be assumed that there is a limited warranty on a used car sold with no warranty, aka "sold as seen"?

    Please note: It doesn't say anything about "same day" or "at time of sale"


  • #84
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    But did it turn out to be faulty, or did it develop a fault after sale?


  • #85
    mullingar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,338 ✭✭✭mullingar


    I think the best thing to do is for Paddy to ring the NCA:

    http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Contact_Us/

    and maybe post their advise here to clarify/help other readers of this thread.


  • #86
    L-M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,536 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    skin the goat wrote: »
    Limerick man you are WRONG, a member of the public cannot be sold a car without a warrenty, this can only be done within the trade between dealers.

    I know I'm WRONG! But I'd be rightly pissed off if I let a car off cheaper to a customer when it was in perfect condition when I sold it. ANY car can develop faults, at any time.


  • #87
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    skin the goat wrote: »
    Limerick man you are WRONG, a member of the public cannot be sold a car without a warrenty, this can only be done within the trade between dealers.

    I think it's you who is wrong.
    Warranties are not a legal requirement in any transaction. What you can't do is sell a dangerously defective car to a member of the public unless they agree the car is not for road use and sign a document to that effect.

    Otherwise the dealer must also declare that the car is free from dangerous defects at the time of sale.

    That is not the same as a warranty.

    Warranties are an optional addition to your statutory rights, so long as the car is safe you don't have to give any warranty.


    Sect 13


  • #88
    V Eight
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 245 ✭✭V Eight


    ring Bill Cullen


  • #89
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    V Eight wrote: »
    ring Bill Cullen

    Why?


  • #90
    L-M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,536 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    -Chris- wrote: »
    Why?

    OP: Hi, just wondering does a dealer have to give a warranty?
    Bill: Er... New Fluence starts from €15,590 :)


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