Bought Car from dealer no warranty....has fault

Thinman

Bought a Megane 3 days ago from a well known dealer without warranty and 2 ignition coils have gone already!!

Do i have a leg to stand on when i give them a ring in the morning??

exador

Thinman wrote: »

Bought a Megane 3 days ago from a well known dealer without warranty and 2 ignition coils have gone already!!

Do i have a leg to stand on when i give them a ring in the morning??

You just answered the question - WITHOUT WARRANTY !...

ScouseMouse

Surely with the short period of time he has had it, he has some comeback?

L1011

exador wrote: »

You just answered the question - WITHOUT WARRANTY !...

A dealer can't sell a car to a member of the general public without the standard Sale of Goods requirements being in force. The OP has some comeback but he needs to show that it wasn't fit for purpose.

This does not apply to private sales but a dealer cannot do a private sale either.

ScouseMouse

MYOB wrote: »

A dealer can't sell a car to a member of the general public without the standard Sale of Goods requirements being in force. The OP has some comeback but he needs to show that it wasn't fit for purpose.

This does not apply to private sales but a dealer cannot do a private sale either.

Thats what I was thinking.

subway

MYOB wrote: »

A dealer can't sell a car to a member of the general public without the standard Sale of Goods requirements being in force. The OP has some comeback but he needs to show that it wasn't fit for purpose.

This does not apply to private sales but a dealer cannot do a private sale either.

This, warranty is only an addition to your statutory rights

mickdw

Thinman wrote: »

Bought a Megane 3 days ago from a well known dealer without warranty and 2 ignition coils have gone already!!

Do i have a leg to stand on when i give them a ring in the morning??

How did you end up with zero warranty? Did you go in acting the hardman, looking for rock bottom price, insisting that you didnt need a warranty and were happy with a trade sale at a trade sale price?

skin the goat

It can only be sold without a warranty to another dealer, trade sale.

exador

Why did the OP say it was without warranty ? more info

slimjimmc

skin the goat wrote: »

It can only be sold without a warranty to another dealer, trade sale.

You can sell anything you like without warranty, they're not obligatory. I think you're mixing up warranties with consumer rights. Consumer rights don't apply to trade sales because neither party is a consumer.

Dilbert75

It still has to be as described and fit for purpose though. If there was a known fault at the time of sale then the seller should remedy it. If it unfortunately developed shortly afterwards, I doubt they'll give you more than sympathy.

Ricardo G

I have sold cars as tradesales to the public without warranty before !! and it is perfectly legal. However their are conditions. Any car sold for €2000 or under is sold with no warranty and it is recomended that the buyer brings a mechanic to inspect the vehicle prior to sale. Any issues that arrise within a 24 hour period will be remidied. The customer signs a form stating the above if they agree with the said conditions. If the car is not road worthy it should not be sold, simple
However to be fair to dealers and garages, you cannot expect them to rectify issues afterwards if you have agreed to NON warranty sale.
Anyone suggesting it is illeagal to sell a vehicle as a trade sale to a member of the public should check the law before spouting rubbish tbf

Absurdum

You have rights, just approach them calmly and if they are in any way decent they should look after you.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1113/1224258726462.html

CIRCUIT COURT president Mr Justice Matthew Deery said the question of a written warranty did not arise in a case where a Co Dublin man sued a garage over a dangerous and defective turbo-charged Subaru Legacy car.

Purchaser Francis White was entitled to believe the car was “in fair and straight condition” as represented to him by Jim Moriarty, head of Motoright Ltd, Greenhills Industrial Estate, Walkinstown.

Barrister Martin Collins said it transpired the car was unroadworthy, with gearbox, steering, clutch and electrics problems. Motoright had refused to repair the vehicle or return the money.

Mr Moriarty told barrister Stephen O’Sullivan, for Motoright, that twin turbo cars were bought to be driven hard. His garage would not give a warranty with such a car. Judge Deery awarded Mr White a decree for €13,000 against Motoright and directed the car be returned to the garage.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2010/0106/1224261723440.html

The judgment, made by the president of the Circuit Court Judge Matthew Deery in a faulty car claim, effectively means “no warranty”, “sold as seen” and other get-out clauses – which some car salesman have been known to fall back on when confronted by disgruntled customers with steam coming out of their ears and their engines – are legally meaningless, particularly if the salesman talked up a car’s good points to secure the sale.

subway

Ricardo G wrote: »

I have sold cars as tradesales to the public without warranty before !! and it is perfectly legal. However their are conditions. Any car sold for €2000 or under is sold with no warranty and it is recomended that the buyer brings a mechanic to inspect the vehicle prior to sale. Any issues that arrise within a 24 hour period will be remidied. The customer signs a form stating the above if they agree with the said conditions. If the car is not road worthy it should not be sold, simple
However to be fair to dealers and garages, you cannot expect them to rectify issues afterwards if you have agreed to NON warranty sale.
Anyone suggesting it is illeagal to sell a vehicle as a trade sale to a member of the public should check the law before spouting rubbish tbf

Go on then, back that up with a relevant link. Or is it just all stuff you've made up and tell to customers?

Ricardo G

subway wrote: »

Go on then, back that up with a relevant link. Or is it just all stuff you've made up and tell to customers?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If i decide to sell a roadworthy car without warranty for €2000 or under and the customer has the vehicle checked and signs an agreement whats the issue?????? If the customer wants the car fully serviced and warrantied dealers put the prices up to cover themselves !!
If a customers asks to have a car sold to them at a discounted price without a warranty and signs an agreement then comes back 2 days later complaining about an issue, who's fault is it ??? He/she was given the option and declined and signed a waiver stating this.

Ricardo G

subway wrote: »

Go on then, back that up with a relevant link. Or is it just all stuff you've made up and tell to customers?

Where is your link to state otherwise ???

Thinman

I bought the car in a hurry as I needed one asap. I didn`t go in as a 'hardman` as some earlier poster suggested.
I didn`t ask about any warranty and the sales guy I was dealing with never mentioned one either,I just assumed i`d have a 3mth warranty on a second hand car from a main dealer.Do`nt no why just thought it was a standard thing.
Looking at the SIMI docket i signed theres no mention of a warranty so I`m taking that as there is none?

subway

Ricardo G wrote: »

Where is your link to state otherwise ???

In the post above mine

subway

Ricardo G wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If i decide to sell a roadworthy car without warranty for €2000 or under and the customer has the vehicle checked and signs an agreement whats the issue?????? If the customer wants the car fully serviced and warrantied dealers put the prices up to cover themselves !!
If a customers asks to have a car sold to them at a discounted price without a warranty and signs an agreement then comes back 2 days later complaining about an issue, who's fault is it ??? He/she was given the option and declined and signed a waiver stating this.

Save the roll eyes. you come across like the typical cowboy car sales man.
The issue is when it's not roadworthy. Read the thread again...

Guy:Incognito

For the price of 2 coils (less than €50) it'd be less hassle for the dealer to just change them than to enter a fight with the customer. We're not talking about the gearbox dropping out the arse of it.

Henry Ford III

If the car was ok when you drove away (fit for purpose) and developed a fault later, and you bought it cheap with no warranty I'm not sure you have much room for redress.

I'd also imagine a Circuit Court ruling is not binding on all future sales. That'd need legislation be passed and enacted.

-Chris-

Thinman - what were the conditions of your "no warranty"?

Did you sign anything? What did it say?

Did the price reflect the fact it had no warranty?

What age, mileage, price?

You should automatically have some form of warranty, unless you signed a contract that says otherwise, and you should have no problems when you ring the dealer tomorrow morning to get it repaired imho.

subway

Consumer protection legislation is already there. The interpretation above, by a judge, shows that it does apply in so called no warranty sales.

All no warranty means is the dealer is going to fight you on your statutory rights. If it was currys it would make the news but for some reason the car trade has never really been picked up on it

You can't, as a consumer, buy any product from a business and have your statutory rights restricted.

Thinman

Thinman wrote: »

I bought the car in a hurry as I needed one asap. I didn`t go in as a 'hardman` as some earlier poster suggested.
I didn`t ask about any warranty and the sales guy I was dealing with never mentioned one either,I just assumed i`d have a 3mth warranty on a second hand car from a main dealer.Do`nt no why just thought it was a standard thing.
Looking at the SIMI docket i signed theres no mention of a warranty so I`m taking that as there is none?

I reckon you have one to be honest
Give them a ring to clarify.

Henry Ford III

subway wrote: »

Consumer protection legislation is already there. The interpretation above, by a judge, shows that it does apply in so called no warranty sales.

All no warranty means is the dealer is going to fight you on your statutory rights. If it was currys it would make the news but for some reason the car trade has never really been picked up on it

You can't, as a consumer, buy any product from a business and have your statutory rights restricted.

It applied only in that case. It's not universal. It's a precedent, but the next judge can just as easily decide award the case the other way.

If the car was "fit for purpose" at the time of sale, i.e. no faults existed and no warranty was included that may well be that.

There is no such thing as an automatic warranty either - that's an urban myth.

Ricardo G

subway wrote: »

Save the roll eyes. you come across like the typical cowboy car sales man.
The issue is when it's not roadworthy. Read the thread again...

How do i come accross like that ????? Your attitude towards sales people is what influences other consumers attitudes to dealers. My business is perfectly legal and i don't get any complaints from buyers so your remark does'nt bother me in the slightest !!

Ignition coils are do not make a car unroadworthy

subway

Ricardo G wrote: »

How do i come accross like that ????? Your attitude towards sales people is what influences other consumers attitudes to dealers. My business is perfectly legal and i don't get any complaints from buyers so your remark does'nt bother me in the slightest !!

Ignition coils are do not make a car unroadworthy

I think it does bother you. You keep putting in rolleyes and lots of question / exclamation marks so you come across as angry, flustered and panicked.

I have never met you so am not influencing anyone's opinion of you. But in fairness the fact that you make up laws and ignore circuit court judgments will allow everyone to make up their own mind

Ricardo G

Thinman wrote: »

I bought the car in a hurry as I needed one asap. I didn`t go in as a 'hardman` as some earlier poster suggested.
I didn`t ask about any warranty and the sales guy I was dealing with never mentioned one either,I just assumed i`d have a 3mth warranty on a second hand car from a main dealer.Do`nt no why just thought it was a standard thing.
Looking at the SIMI docket i signed theres no mention of a warranty so I`m taking that as there is none?

Op it sounds to me like you have a warranty, in 99% of cases the salesman will have written "tradesale" or "no warranty" on your sales order form. As someone stated above if they are a reputable dealer they will have no issue replacing the part

Henry Ford III

subway wrote: »

...But in fairness the fact that you make up laws and ignore circuit court judgments will allow everyone to make up their own mind

That's plain incorrect subway.

A Circuit Court judgement does not mean it's decision is any sort of future legislative requirement.

unkel

RoverJames wrote: »

I reckon you have one to be honest

+1

If you bought a car from a SIMI dealer, you have a 3 month warranty. Ask the dealer to fix the problem and if he is causing trouble, take him to the small claims court.

colm_mcm

Next you'll be saying the electric windows don't work...


Try and get something off the dealer and clarify the warranty situation

jimmycrackcorm

Ricardo G wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If i decide to sell a roadworthy car without warranty for €2000 or under and the customer has the vehicle checked and signs an agreement whats the issue?????? If the customer wants the car fully serviced and warrantied dealers put the prices up to cover themselves !!
If a customers asks to have a car sold to them at a discounted price without a warranty and signs an agreement then comes back 2 days later complaining about an issue, who's fault is it ??? He/she was given the option and declined and signed a waiver stating this.

You might think it's ok but you cannot circumvent the law regardless and you get away with it because of the ignorance of your purchasers who think that this piece of paper negates their statutory rights.

I guess you just haven't had anyone challenge you on it. A person cannot sign away their rights!

Ricardo G

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You might think it's ok but you cannot circumvent the law regardless and you get away with it because of the ignorance of your purchasers who think that this piece of paper negates their statutory rights.

I guess you just haven't had anyone challenge you on it. A person cannot sign away their rights!

I have had this checked with my solicitor and a barrister friend prior to setting it up 2 years ago and they're were no objections. I will take advice from both of these rather than someone sitting behind a screen thanks

testicle

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I'd also imagine a Circuit Court ruling is not binding on all future sales.

Ireland is a Common Law country, so it is.

Henry Ford III

testicle wrote: »

Ireland is a Common Law country, so it is.

Precedent neither compels nor prohibits a later decision. Legislation does.

radiat

Here's some light reading:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/print.html#sec13

There's a section in it relating to sale of motor vehicles.

OP, i doubt you'd have any problems if you go back to the dealer. Keep us informed

Marcusm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Precedent neither compels nor prohibits a later decision. Legislation does.

Precedent decisions are binding on courts of lower jurisdiction, in this case the District Court, but can be ignored by a court of equivalent or overturned on appeal to a court of higher jurisidction.

subway

Henry Ford III wrote: »

That's plain incorrect subway.

A Circuit Court judgement does not mean it's decision is any sort of future legislative requirement.

While I think you've read something I haven't written, I do think a standing decision is a fairly strong indicator.
I think other posters have a better knowledge of that aspect of the legal system than me and have clarified the application of the judgement.

Absurdum

Before we start a civil war, the OP should just go back to the dealer in the morning and chances are it will be sorted out for him/her

Henry Ford III

subway wrote: »

While I think you've read something I haven't written, I do think a standing decision is a fairly strong indicator.
I think other posters have a better knowledge of that aspect of the legal system than me and have clarified the application of the judgement.

Marcusm spelt it out better than I could just above.

To recap another judge could rule on a similar case in favour of the dealer at District, Circuit, or High Courts.

The precedent you've mentioned therefore has very limited legal weight.

mickdw

I dont know why the OP started all this. He/she should have a warranty based on whats said in later post.

isabella_24

Ricardo G wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If i decide to sell a roadworthy car without warranty for €2000 or under and the customer has the vehicle checked and signs an agreement whats the issue?????? If the customer wants the car fully serviced and warrantied dealers put the prices up to cover themselves !!
If a customers asks to have a car sold to them at a discounted price without a warranty and signs an agreement then comes back 2 days later complaining about an issue, who's fault is it ??? He/she was given the option and declined and signed a waiver stating this.

If you are so confident about consumers not minding having no warranty with goods please post your details and what name your trading under, so decent customers can avoid buying anything what so ever off you.

-Chris-

isabella_24 wrote: »

If you are so confident about consumers not minding having no warranty with goods please post your details and what name your trading under, so decent customers can avoid buying anything what so ever off you.

That's a completely unfair comment.

There are many "decent" customers are happy to buy a vehicle with no warranty as long as they're comfortable with the vehicle condition and the price.

To imply that a trader is dodgy because they sell vehicles with no warranty to customers who are happy to buy a vehicle with no warranty, is totally unreasonable.

If you disagree, you many as well start a petition to shut down all the auction houses in the country...

subway

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Marcusm spelt it out better than I could just above.

To recap another judge could rule on a similar case in favour of the dealer at District, Circuit, or High Courts.

The precedent you've mentioned therefore has very limited legal weight.

alright, i think we'' go round and round if we dont put a stop to this.
the judgement can be taken as an indicator and should not be ignored (which is all that i said).
you said "its plain incorrect", which you have now admitted it isnt as it applies to lower / same level courts, which is more than i said.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

There is no such thing as an automatic warranty either - that's an urban myth.

i've also missed this line on my phone last night.
i never said "automatic warranty", i actually took time to point out that warranty is in addition to your consumer rights. where consumer rights apply (SOGA) warranty is only there to make the retailers life easier and appear as a benefit to the consumer in that issues will be resolved quickly. a retailer can choose to make life difficult for consumers but, at the end of the day, they cannot limit SOGA rights.
i think it would be nice for you and ricardo to post the names of your respective dealerships if you are so confident in what you are writing here

-Chris- wrote: »

If you disagree, you many as well start a petition to shut down all the auction houses in the country...

im surprised at this. i thought you would know auctions are exempt from consumer protection legislation, and is the only place delaers can sell to the public "as seen"

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html

-Chris-

subway wrote: »

im surprised at this. i thought you would know auctions are exempt from consumer protection legislation, and is the only place delaers can sell to the public "as seen"

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html

...and your thoughts on the rest (and the actual point/intent) of my post?

subway

well, i think i've made that clear across the thread that i am on the other side of the fence in that i take the freely avaialable advice that

Sellers' responsibilities
It is an offence under both road traffic legislation and the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act to sell a car to a consumer which is not roadworthy
The Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 also requires that any car sold by a dealer - whether new or used - should be:
Of merchantable quality (this means a reasonable, acceptable quality given what was said about it and taking into account the age and history of the vehicle)
Fit for the purpose it is intended to be used for
As described
Roadworthy

i believe this more than i believe henry ford and ricardo who, to me, come across as dodgy car dealers who commit offences regualrly - as they freely admit they ignore the above.

the only place a car can be sold as seen is at auction and a professional should know that and therefore sell cars that are unfit via auction.

i have no issue with a car being sold without warranty, as per my previous posts, its only an additonal tool for the consumer. i have issues with cars which breakdown a day or 2 after sale and car dealers believing they have zero responsibility.


edit////
adding a line here, i was posting from a phone yesterday so replying, potentially, haphazardly - to summarise my position

• cars can be sold with warranty, but this does not limit consumer rights
• warranty means it will be fixed wihtout question, consumer rights means if it wasnt of "merchantable quality" it has to be fixed.
• i have stated on other threads in the past that this can be one of the hardest things to prove and time is the car purchases biggest enemy here
• there has been a court case which supports my position
• i believe that many car dealers do not fully take into account consumer rights

dharn

why do so many threads descend into a bun fight so quickly

Henry Ford III

subway wrote: »

i believe this more than i believe henry ford and ricardo who, to me, come across as dodgy car dealers who commit offences regualrly - as they freely admit they ignore the above.

I'm not a car dealer!

testicle

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Marcusm spelt it out better than I could just above.

To recap another judge could rule on a similar case in favour of the dealer at District, Circuit, or High Courts.

The precedent you've mentioned therefore has very limited legal weight.

The precedent in this case comes from the Circuit Court, so the District Court has to abide by it.

Henry Ford III

testicle wrote: »

The precedent in this case comes from the Circuit Court, so the District Court has to abide by it.

Apologies, you are quite correct. I incorrectly read it on thread somewhere as a District Court decision.

subway

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I'm not a car dealer!

apologies for that. i made the assumption you were connected with the trade somehow.