Caning, the answer to Ireland and England's scumbag problem

EarlERizer · 14-08-2011 05:48PM

Overheal wrote: »

The Real Problem - A generation that is growing up with the void of Corporal Punishment and a very recessed Catholic orthodoxy has basically bred this chaotic point in time when people are still trying to figure out what works, now that you don't have the Church or the Cane to discipline people defacto. It just takes time to find out what works and this Generation of young people might be 'lost' but the next Generation of younger people will do better than the last, and so on.

The Keystone: The Irish home has not been able to keep up with the challenge of all the recent changes. Kids aren't being raised in constructively as a result. Fix the Homes; Fix the Streets.

Hear hear, we should drag ourselves backward in time and return to sadistic bastards belting kids for allsorts and when thats deemed not to be working we'll pack them off to borstals where they can be the sex toys of sick depraved men of the cloth and have their scumbag gene buggered from them!

Afterall it's well known Britian & Ireland had no scumbags before the abolishment of corporal punishment or before the perverts of the church were exposed. :rolleyes:

I'm not against these little sh!ts been dealt a harsh lesson,they're a symptom of bad parenting,bad schooling & a flawed system, it's got feck all to do with how things are today,recession or not we've always had 'scumbags', the reason things are more amplified nowadays is because of political correctness and the molly coddling that goes on.

If a disadvantaged youth has the opportunity to grab himself an ipad,a laptop,a phone,some trainers,some new clothes etc etc with the only threat for been caught being a slap on the wrist and a few hours community service (because he's actually a victim too) he'll jump at the chance.

Successive self serving greedy governements both here & in the UK have cultivated this scumbag culture with their turning a blind eye stance on disadvantaged area's which has resulted in todays scumbag / gang culture.To the powers that be it's all about statistics,numbers & figures and £ € $.

No kid is born bad,the enviroment they grow up in determines how they turn out,like I said,bad parenting,bad schooling,flawed system lead to their state of hopelessness.

I strongly believe in National Service,it served the UK (and elsewhere I'm sure) very well in days gone by,if a kid leaves school for whatever reason and is not working or making a contribution of some sort to society, then a spell in National Service wouldn't go amiss, at the very least they would emerge from their time a better person.

teol · 14-08-2011 05:49PM

I don't agree with capital punishment but removing their benefits is a good compromise.

London riots: Wandsworth council moves to evict mother of charged boy

Local authority is first to issue eviction notice to a tenant in wake of the riots despite accused not having been convicted

...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/12/london-riots-wandsworth-council-eviction

Mike 1972 · 14-08-2011 05:51PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Take away their welfare..
Evict them..
Deport them..
Bate the **** outta them..

not really the most well thought out of ideas on how to reduce crime rates are they?

Ummm you left out curfews and conscription

mawk · 14-08-2011 05:59PM

I'm not in favour of caning but am totally in favour of electro shock punishments. They could leave a digital record of who and when was punishment administered to as well as perhaps a drop down menu allowing the teacher to record the reason for the punishment.
As well as bring traceable, the punishments could be pre calibrated to a specific intensity and duration, meaning a teacher can't act the vindictive prick.
If any school boards are reading this I'll happily consult on the prototype

Fremen · 14-08-2011 06:03PM

For christ's sake. Why does every thicko on the street have some kind of magical quick fix for crime. Cane them... ship them to some other country... stick them in boot camp.

YOU DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER! Can I say that any louder? Yes.

You don't have the answer.

Not just the OP. Everyone. There probably is no quick fix. The first step here is to admit that we don't really know shít about why crime happens. One of the only things we can do is look at places with low crime rates and try to figure out why.

Better yet, conduct experiments and pool data. Run randomized controlled trials to find out what, if anything, actually works. Of course, this will never happen, because first the people in power would have to admit that no-one knows a damn thing about prevention of crime.

Kaneda_ · 14-08-2011 06:13PM

Society isnt that broken.

EarlERizer · 14-08-2011 06:15PM

Fremen wrote: »

For christ's sake. Why does every thicko on the street have some kind of magical quick fix for crime. Cane them... ship them to some other country...
stick them in boot camp.

YOU DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER! Can I say that any louder? Yes.

You don't have the answer.

Not just the OP. Everyone. There probably is no quick fix. The first step here is to admit that we don't really know shít about why crime happens. One of the only things we can do is look at places with low crime rates and try to figure out why.

Better yet, conduct experiments and pool data. Run randomized controlled trials to find out what, if anything, actually works. Of course, this will never happen, because first the people in power would have to admit that no-one knows a damn thing about prevention of crime.

I didn't quite hear that

but I read it loud bold & clear!

Prevention is better than cure, true that! in fairness though,we do have some understanding of why crime happens,however some in society have their heads in the sand or are in denial regarding such things.

Toby Take a Bow · 14-08-2011 06:18PM

It's been going on for longer than all of you think: Linky Most generations seem to recall a (nonexistent) time when the youth behaved and things were better. Our generation is now going on about it, and in twenty years time our kids will be doing exactly the same.

It states that there is an increase in 'yoof' problems, but for people calling for a reintroduction of beating it basically states that crime associated with youths has been increasing since the 30s.

Also, England had the Mods and Rockers riots back in the 60s. Lots of beatings of kids back then.

Einhard · 14-08-2011 06:20PM

Fremen wrote: »

For christ's sake. Why does every thicko on the street have some kind of magical quick fix for crime. Cane them... ship them to some other country... stick them in boot camp.

YOU DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER! Can I say that any louder? Yes.

You don't have the answer.

And if we don't discuss it, we'll never have the answer.

that we don't really know shít about why crime happens.

That's not true at all. There's plenty of evidence to suggest why crimes happen, and why certain communities and societies are more vlunerable to crime than others.

Better yet, conduct experiments and pool data. Run randomized controlled trials to find out what, if anything, actually works. Of course, this will never happen, because first the people in power would have to admit that no-one knows a damn thing about prevention of crime.

Again, this isn't true. Crime rates vary dramatically all over the world, which suggests in itself that some societies have more success in preventing crime than others. Strong social cohesion, together with parental responsibility, opportunities and outlets for young people, and clear penalties for ciminality all contribute to lowering crime rates.

flutterflye · 14-08-2011 06:29PM

Freman- Thank you!!!

I went on full scale rant mode at my friends the other day saying the exact same thing, and they didn't have a clue what I was talking about.

Fremen · 14-08-2011 06:30PM

Einhard wrote: »

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And if we don't discuss it, we'll never have the answer.

I wasn't really trying to say that we shouldn't discuss it. More that people shouldn't look for a quick fix like caning, the death penalty, etc...
If people could be a little more scientific and a little less reactionary and hot-headed, we might actually be able to make some progress on the problem.

Maybe I used a bit too much hyperbole, but if crime was properly understood, it wouldn't be a problem.

dsmythy · 14-08-2011 06:43PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

This scumbag fad is getting very tiresome.

I wish I heard the same kind of invective spouted against the bankers and politicians who have ruined this country.

Have you not been reading After Hours threads on 'bankers'?

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Punishment simply forces people to behave when there's a chance of getting caught, because they fear the punishment.
That's just not good enough in my view. What we need to do is raise a society which doesn't WANT to do these things because they have empathy and compassion for other people.

In other words, if I was in England I wouldn't have looted or burned anything down because my first thought would have been "wow, that poor shopkeeper is going to be devastated, I feel sorry for him". Compassion and empathy would make me not *WANT* to screw people over in the way the rioters did, because I was brought up with a principle of feeling sorry for others when bad things happen to them.

Where was that compassion with these rioters? We're all human beings, why is it that I (and the vast majority of people) are capable of feeling sorry for others and putting ourselves in the place of those who suffer, and these looters apparently were not?

Basically what I'm saying is, it's a sad state of affairs if the only reason you don't steal from others is because you might get punished for it. We should be focusing on teaching these kids not to WANT to steal from others, because it's unkind and causes hardship to those they steal from.

In other words, we need to teach them to behave because they care about humanity, not because they're afraid of getting whacked.

That's what parents are for. If not parents then the extended family. If not extended family then some form of role model. Restorative justice, big brother/sister schemes, not necessarily from the all powerful government but voluntary projects. A healthy dose of intolerance to certain behaviour. And of course hatrickpatrick's warm hugs

Herb Powell · 14-08-2011 06:52PM

You'd want to be extremely naive to believe caning will solve anything

johngalway · 14-08-2011 06:57PM

FetchTheGin wrote: »

Youth centres are a good deterrent for young kids, most have nothing to do.

A good thing for kids? Maybe.

A good deterrent? Not a snowballs chance. The young Irish Scumbag will see their YC as nothing more than a place to have a laugh then as a rallying point for his scumbag mates so they can wreak havoc as a group after the YC has shut up shop for the night.

Taken from experience.

Kaneda_ wrote: »

Society isnt that broken.

It is in certain areas.

Nodin · 14-08-2011 07:11PM

deathrider wrote: »

Can't we just shoot them?

Canes are narrow bastards and would be hard to pick off.

whatswhat · 14-08-2011 07:16PM

policarp wrote: »

didn't work when I was in school a few moons ago.
Same chaps got whacked time and time again.

We must be from a different era, cos it most certainly worked when I was at school, seems to me it all went downhill when it stopped!

lucozader · 14-08-2011 07:22PM

When I was in school teachers could hit students. The problem was that they never hit the scumbags or bad kids. They would only beat the quiet ones that they knew would not fight back. Also they beat kids for being poor or for being stupid or just because they were in a bad mood/hungover/nasty.

I think caning needs to be related in some way to discipline and justice. Neither of which had anything to do with caning in the past.

Morag · 14-08-2011 07:39PM

Canning?
Are you fecking kidding me?
There used to be a solution, the answer to this in previous centuries was a nice war.

dsmythy · 14-08-2011 07:42PM

Sharrow wrote: »

Canning?
Are you fecking kidding me?
There used to be a solution, the answer to this in previous centuries was a nice war.

The sooner they are shoved into cans the better.

Nodin · 14-08-2011 07:52PM

Sharrow wrote: »

Canning?
Are you fecking kidding me?
There used to be a solution, the answer to this in previous centuries was a nice war.

Really? This lot weren't too bothered by the various colonial enterprises at the time
http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/content/articles/2008/10/20/201008_scuttlers_interview_feature.shtml
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/4029760/The-Gangs-of-Manchester-the-Story-of-the-Scuttlers-Britains-First-Youth-Cult-by-Andrew-Davies-review.html
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gangs-Manchester-Story-Scuttlers-Britains/dp/1903854814

Kaneda_ · 14-08-2011 09:17PM

This post my be come across as being someone odd or not connected to the subject,but to me it is.

When i was young,about 12 or 13.I was in school one day and i remember watching 2 class mates fighting over nothing-the way kids do.

I remember thinking that i couldnt wait to grow up, to be a man.Adults dont fight, argue or attack each other over such stupids things or for no reason at all,when arguments do happen its over things that matter.

Im 25 now.A man.

I now know that this isnt true.Adults are worse.They can be mean,self centered violent people under the right conditions.They want to run things there own way,they cannot be trusted and you can only really trust yourself and maybe a small circle of friends if your lucky.

Dont get me wrong, people can be nice.Most people are in fact.But under pressure anyone can change.

Crazy Horse 6 · 14-08-2011 09:43PM

If we could only get the bankers, the elites and the corrupt political class caned also i'd be a happy man.

Einhard · 14-08-2011 09:56PM

Kaneda_ wrote: »

Im 25 now.A man.

I now know that this isnt true.

So 26 and a woman then?;)

orourkeda · 14-08-2011 09:58PM

If the death penalty didnt fully eradicate crime I doubt caning will

isabella_24 · 15-08-2011 03:16AM

teol wrote: »

Scumbag kids have plenty of stuff to do. It's just that their parents couldn't give a toss about them.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Things that make me laugh===> This post bahahahaha

Local-womanizer · 15-08-2011 03:32AM

lucozader wrote: »

Also they beat kids for being poor or for being stupid or just because they were in a bad mood/hungover/nasty.

Same happened in my primary school, except we never came in hungover!

old_aussie · 15-08-2011 03:34AM

Lets face the truth, immigration is the problem.

These people are now turning the country they immigrated to, into the scum hole they left.

ascanbe · 15-08-2011 03:39AM

orourkeda wrote: »

If the death penalty didnt fully eradicate crime I doubt caning will

Why not just kill everyone in the world? Set in motion a kind of global suicide pact.
That will eradicate all these problems for once and for all.
I don't mean to come across as reactionary, but i'm tired of these 'liberals' and their 'namby-pamby', 'pc' approach to everything.

ascanbe · 15-08-2011 03:42AM

old_aussie wrote: »

Lets face the truth, immigration is the problem.

These people are now turning the country they immigrated to, into the scum hole they left.

That would certainly explain modern day Australia. I blame you immigrants.

policarp · 15-08-2011 03:47AM

whatswhat wrote: »

We must be from a different era, cos it most certainly worked when I was at school, seems to me it all went downhill when it stopped!

I went to the Christian Brothers when every brother and teacher had their own purpose made leather. This "6 of the best" was a punishment avoided by most of the class, but there was 2 or 3 messers in the same class who seemed to take this punishment and make out it was like a badge of honour.

Caning, the answer to Ireland and England's scumbag problem

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