Bought Car from dealer no warranty....has fault

jimmycrackcorm · 14-08-2011 10:15PM

Ricardo G wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If i decide to sell a roadworthy car without warranty for €2000 or under and the customer has the vehicle checked and signs an agreement whats the issue?????? If the customer wants the car fully serviced and warrantied dealers put the prices up to cover themselves !!
If a customers asks to have a car sold to them at a discounted price without a warranty and signs an agreement then comes back 2 days later complaining about an issue, who's fault is it ??? He/she was given the option and declined and signed a waiver stating this.

You might think it's ok but you cannot circumvent the law regardless and you get away with it because of the ignorance of your purchasers who think that this piece of paper negates their statutory rights.

I guess you just haven't had anyone challenge you on it. A person cannot sign away their rights!

Ricardo G · 14-08-2011 10:23PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You might think it's ok but you cannot circumvent the law regardless and you get away with it because of the ignorance of your purchasers who think that this piece of paper negates their statutory rights.

I guess you just haven't had anyone challenge you on it. A person cannot sign away their rights!

I have had this checked with my solicitor and a barrister friend prior to setting it up 2 years ago and they're were no objections. I will take advice from both of these rather than someone sitting behind a screen thanks

testicle · 14-08-2011 11:11PM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I'd also imagine a Circuit Court ruling is not binding on all future sales.

Ireland is a Common Law country, so it is.

Henry Ford III · 14-08-2011 11:30PM

testicle wrote: »

Ireland is a Common Law country, so it is.

Precedent neither compels nor prohibits a later decision. Legislation does.

radiat · 14-08-2011 11:34PM

Here's some light reading:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/print.html#sec13

There's a section in it relating to sale of motor vehicles.

OP, i doubt you'd have any problems if you go back to the dealer. Keep us informed

Marcusm · 14-08-2011 11:35PM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Precedent neither compels nor prohibits a later decision. Legislation does.

Precedent decisions are binding on courts of lower jurisdiction, in this case the District Court, but can be ignored by a court of equivalent or overturned on appeal to a court of higher jurisidction.

subway · 14-08-2011 11:41PM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

That's plain incorrect subway.

A Circuit Court judgement does not mean it's decision is any sort of future legislative requirement.

While I think you've read something I haven't written, I do think a standing decision is a fairly strong indicator.
I think other posters have a better knowledge of that aspect of the legal system than me and have clarified the application of the judgement.

Absurdum · 14-08-2011 11:49PM

Before we start a civil war, the OP should just go back to the dealer in the morning and chances are it will be sorted out for him/her

Henry Ford III · 14-08-2011 11:50PM

subway wrote: »

While I think you've read something I haven't written, I do think a standing decision is a fairly strong indicator.
I think other posters have a better knowledge of that aspect of the legal system than me and have clarified the application of the judgement.

Marcusm spelt it out better than I could just above.

To recap another judge could rule on a similar case in favour of the dealer at District, Circuit, or High Courts.

The precedent you've mentioned therefore has very limited legal weight.

mickdw · 15-08-2011 12:10AM

I dont know why the OP started all this. He/she should have a warranty based on whats said in later post.

isabella_24 · 15-08-2011 01:08AM

Ricardo G wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

If i decide to sell a roadworthy car without warranty for €2000 or under and the customer has the vehicle checked and signs an agreement whats the issue?????? If the customer wants the car fully serviced and warrantied dealers put the prices up to cover themselves !!
If a customers asks to have a car sold to them at a discounted price without a warranty and signs an agreement then comes back 2 days later complaining about an issue, who's fault is it ??? He/she was given the option and declined and signed a waiver stating this.

If you are so confident about consumers not minding having no warranty with goods please post your details and what name your trading under, so decent customers can avoid buying anything what so ever off you.

-Chris- · 15-08-2011 07:12AM

isabella_24 wrote: »

If you are so confident about consumers not minding having no warranty with goods please post your details and what name your trading under, so decent customers can avoid buying anything what so ever off you.

That's a completely unfair comment.

There are many "decent" customers are happy to buy a vehicle with no warranty as long as they're comfortable with the vehicle condition and the price.

To imply that a trader is dodgy because they sell vehicles with no warranty to customers who are happy to buy a vehicle with no warranty, is totally unreasonable.

If you disagree, you many as well start a petition to shut down all the auction houses in the country...

subway · 15-08-2011 08:16AM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Marcusm spelt it out better than I could just above.

To recap another judge could rule on a similar case in favour of the dealer at District, Circuit, or High Courts.

The precedent you've mentioned therefore has very limited legal weight.

alright, i think we'' go round and round if we dont put a stop to this.
the judgement can be taken as an indicator and should not be ignored (which is all that i said).
you said "its plain incorrect", which you have now admitted it isnt as it applies to lower / same level courts, which is more than i said.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

There is no such thing as an automatic warranty either - that's an urban myth.

i've also missed this line on my phone last night.
i never said "automatic warranty", i actually took time to point out that warranty is in addition to your consumer rights. where consumer rights apply (SOGA) warranty is only there to make the retailers life easier and appear as a benefit to the consumer in that issues will be resolved quickly. a retailer can choose to make life difficult for consumers but, at the end of the day, they cannot limit SOGA rights.
i think it would be nice for you and ricardo to post the names of your respective dealerships if you are so confident in what you are writing here

-Chris- wrote: »

If you disagree, you many as well start a petition to shut down all the auction houses in the country...

im surprised at this. i thought you would know auctions are exempt from consumer protection legislation, and is the only place delaers can sell to the public "as seen"

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html

-Chris- · 15-08-2011 08:20AM

subway wrote: »

im surprised at this. i thought you would know auctions are exempt from consumer protection legislation, and is the only place delaers can sell to the public "as seen"

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html

...and your thoughts on the rest (and the actual point/intent) of my post?

subway · 15-08-2011 08:29AM

well, i think i've made that clear across the thread that i am on the other side of the fence in that i take the freely avaialable advice that

Sellers' responsibilities
It is an offence under both road traffic legislation and the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act to sell a car to a consumer which is not roadworthy
The Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 also requires that any car sold by a dealer - whether new or used - should be:
Of merchantable quality (this means a reasonable, acceptable quality given what was said about it and taking into account the age and history of the vehicle)
Fit for the purpose it is intended to be used for
As described
Roadworthy

i believe this more than i believe henry ford and ricardo who, to me, come across as dodgy car dealers who commit offences regualrly - as they freely admit they ignore the above.

the only place a car can be sold as seen is at auction and a professional should know that and therefore sell cars that are unfit via auction.

i have no issue with a car being sold without warranty, as per my previous posts, its only an additonal tool for the consumer. i have issues with cars which breakdown a day or 2 after sale and car dealers believing they have zero responsibility.

edit////
adding a line here, i was posting from a phone yesterday so replying, potentially, haphazardly - to summarise my position

cars can be sold with warranty, but this does not limit consumer rights
warranty means it will be fixed wihtout question, consumer rights means if it wasnt of "merchantable quality" it has to be fixed.
i have stated on other threads in the past that this can be one of the hardest things to prove and time is the car purchases biggest enemy here
there has been a court case which supports my position
i believe that many car dealers do not fully take into account consumer rights

dharn · 15-08-2011 09:38AM

why do so many threads descend into a bun fight so quickly

Henry Ford III · 15-08-2011 11:51AM

subway wrote: »

i believe this more than i believe henry ford and ricardo who, to me, come across as dodgy car dealers who commit offences regualrly - as they freely admit they ignore the above.

I'm not a car dealer!

testicle · 15-08-2011 11:57AM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Marcusm spelt it out better than I could just above.

To recap another judge could rule on a similar case in favour of the dealer at District, Circuit, or High Courts.

The precedent you've mentioned therefore has very limited legal weight.

The precedent in this case comes from the Circuit Court, so the District Court has to abide by it.

Henry Ford III · 15-08-2011 12:01PM

testicle wrote: »

The precedent in this case comes from the Circuit Court, so the District Court has to abide by it.

Apologies, you are quite correct. I incorrectly read it on thread somewhere as a District Court decision.

subway · 15-08-2011 12:51PM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I'm not a car dealer!

apologies for that. i made the assumption you were connected with the trade somehow.

carface · 15-08-2011 12:58PM

Ricardo G wrote: »

I have sold cars as tradesales to the public without warranty before !! and it is perfectly legal. However their are conditions. Any car sold for €2000 or under is sold with no warranty and it is recomended that the buyer brings a mechanic to inspect the vehicle prior to sale. Any issues that arrise within a 24 hour period will be remidied. The customer signs a form stating the above if they agree with the said conditions. If the car is not road worthy it should not be sold, simple
However to be fair to dealers and garages, you cannot expect them to rectify issues afterwards if you have agreed to NON warranty sale.
Anyone suggesting it is illeagal to sell a vehicle as a trade sale to a member of the public should check the law before spouting rubbish tbf

In fairness Subway, Ricardo g states his conditions of sale and unless you have knowledge of his stock or dealing with him personally its very unfair to be labeling him as somebody dodgey. He does not state he sells every car in his stock on a no warranty basis. Car dealers or garages never get enough credit for aftersales backup provided compared to buying privately or at auction legally buying from someone in the trade is very safe.

subway · 15-08-2011 01:23PM

what im saying is that his terms & conditions are illegal.
the same as going into a tv shop and seeing a big sign saying "no refunds under any circumstances"

you cant say a car is only good for 24 hours, after that your on your own. thats an illegal (consumer) contract of sale .

Henry Ford III · 15-08-2011 01:47PM

That's where our views would differ subway.

If a customer bought a cheap car and an agreement was signed stating there was no warranty included, and the car was fit for purpose/of merchantable quality at the time of sale, a breakdown or failure at any later time is the customers lookout.

I don't think it's reasonable to negotiate a cheaper price and accept no warranty, and then to expect the dealer to pick up the tab should anything go wrong.

You can't have it every way.

subway · 15-08-2011 02:05PM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

That's where our views would differ subway.

well, at least on that part we can agree

I think we've both made our point enough times that we know we won't agree on this one.

//staying subbed for update from OP

-Chris- · 15-08-2011 02:52PM

subway wrote: »

//staying subbed for update from OP

Yes please!

Thinman, how did you get on when you called the dealer this morning?

SouperComputer · 15-08-2011 04:20PM

Christ on a bike such malarky.

OP call the dealer, see what they say. If they are agreeable to replacing the coils, great. If not then you need to decide for yourself if its worth your time persuing "other avenues" or just fixing it yourself and moving on.

Thinman · 15-08-2011 07:45PM

Ok, Rang dealer this morning, they said ring it down and they`d replace the coils no problem.....................Thats that sorted.
By the way I have they clarified I1ve 3mths engine and gearbox warranty.

Now next problem...............................on my way to dealer I put my drivers window down for some air and guess what happened when I tried to put the window back up? thats right, it wouldn`t go back up.
So i told the service manager about the window and he said he`d have a look. He gets back to me in the afternoon and says that it`ll be €290 for a new window motor and that its not covered under warranty! I said thats outragous and I don`t have that kind of money and he said fair enough and left it at that. When I went to collect the car he then presented me with a invoice for €38 for labour for removing the door panel and window motor! I refused to pay and he rang the sales dept and they said they`d cover the €38 labour.

So to recap I looked at the car last Monday, the sales guy and I couldn`t agree on a price so I walked away.He rang me back on Tuesday with a better offer which I agreed. I collected the car last Wednesday and on Saturday the coils went and on Monday the drivers electric window motor went.

The SIMI docket he filled in and I signed on the day of purchase makes no reference to how long or what is covered under warranty.

So what is my mext move? Consumer Agency? Small claims court?

subway · 15-08-2011 07:46PM

Did you not say they covered everything?

Thinman · 15-08-2011 08:02PM

subway wrote: »

Did you not say they covered everything?

What do you mean covered everything?

subway · 15-08-2011 08:54PM

He fixed the coils and window for free?
Or am I misreading?

Bought Car from dealer no warranty....has fault

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